8.4 Million Species ?

[Waheguru 1 creator]

:redturban:
WJKK WJKF

Imran can you please give the source to which the estimate was 100,000 million?

As the most recent estimates state 8.7 million give or take 1.3 million according to reliable sources like the BBC, the guardian and the NY times. I have linked the sources below. Maybe it was the statement "the vast majority have not been identified" that confused you, they mean that they estimate 8.7 million species but they have not all been databased, given names etc. only about 1.9 million have been "identified" but 8.4 million is the predicted figure.

Sources:
BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14616161
Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/aug/23/species-earth-estimate-scientists
NY times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/science/30species.html
There are many others but i picked 3 reliable websites as i didnt want to flood you with sources.

WJKK WJKF

And Happy new year!!!

 

[spnadmin]

Waheguru 1 creator ji

As has already been stated: The number 8.4 million should not be taken literally. Its mention in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an allusion or reference to a Vedic belief that there are 8.4 million 'life-forms' (not 'species' to be exact). It did not refer to a head count of species on earth or in the universe. Rather it referred to forms of life through which the individual soul would reincarnate. Mistranslation led to the word "species" going viral in other translations and discussions.

Wondering about a differential of 100,000 million or 1.9 million give or take is a reaction to something that was misunderstood to begin with. The Sikh Gurus would first state the number as the commonly held assumption; and then they would contradict the beliefs that were based on this assumption. So, they were using this number as a poetic ploy for digging further into the matter of spiritual rebirth. They applied this poetic ploy with a number of other Vedic concepts.

So the estimation of species on earth is best left to science, which seems to be your preference also.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Waheguru 1 creator ji

As has already been stated: The number 8.4 million should not be taken literally. Its mention in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is an allusion or reference to a Vedic belief that there are 8.4 million 'life-forms' (not 'species' to be exact). It did not refer to a head count of species on earth or in the universe. Rather it referred to forms of life through which the individual soul would reincarnate. Mistranslation led to the word "species" going viral in other translations and discussions.

Wondering about a differential of 100,000 million or 1.9 million give or take is a reaction to something that was misunderstood to begin with. The Sikh Gurus would first state the number as the commonly held assumption; and then they would contradict the beliefs that were based on this assumption. So, they were using this number as a poetic ploy for digging further into the matter of spiritual rebirth. They applied this poetic ploy with a number of other Vedic concepts.

So the estimation of species on earth is best left to science, which seems to be your preference also.

The METHODOLOGY of all the contributors to the SGGS..is...
1. Give the PREVAILING belief/thought/ritual/whatever
2. Elaborate on 1. to make it clear
3. GIVE the contributor's OWN take on the 1
4 Make the Contributor's take clear and transparent beyond dispute and
RAHAO..PAUSE this ...to make sure it SINKS IN.
5 Occasionally add a SECOND RAHAO...
6. LINK shabds, across pages, make annotations, comments on shbads and pages upon pages are linked by a central theme developed over these pages...so even a single page read on its own may lead the reader astray if he makes the mistake of taking that page on its own..

Example..Guru nanak Ji writes.."The Koran says....the Vedas say...and the misled reader beleives that Guru ji is ENDORSING the Koran the Vedas..the Puranas...BUT IF the reader were to WAIT till teh RAHAO TUKS or the CONCLUDING NANAK LINE..he will realise what the GURU actually says and what the GURMATT STAND on that subject is... The Guru says..COCONUT...People see a COCONUT..and STOP there..seeing its Green/Brown Colour..and tough outer shell..what the GURU wants for us to go INSIDE..break open the coconut..remove the shell...break the hard shell....and some will drink the water..others will eat the flesh..yet others will grind the inside and obtain the OIL...

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

You have laid the methodology of the Shabads out so clearly, so well. I am left wondering why some get to the coconut and stop, and others go for the oil. Puzzles me greatly.

 

[Harry Haller]

Gyani ji

You have laid the methodology of the Shabads out so clearly, so well. I am left wondering why some get to the coconut and stop, and others go for the oil. Puzzles me greatly.

people value the tangible

 

[Parma]

Imran I understand that you may want to make another religion look misguided to make other religions seem more sensible and valid, I call it misguided guidance. How can making something look bad, make you or your faith or guidance, look any good? Especially if your trying to elevate yourself up onto a higher Plateau of ethics or religion or beliefs or whatever and especially if the knowledge that your trying to disrepute is itself neither imposing or oppressive, or in any way trying to misguide or bring disrepute onto you? You may feel that the value is misguiding, but the Guru Granth Sahib Ji uses many metaphors and styles to explain the values of God as God cannot be defined. The quality of the value it is trying to express is the value of love of god and the individual, humanity but used with differences in explanation to get that message across that's why you have to read the entire Guru Granth Sahib Ji to try to understand it reading parts is like reading a stories end part and thinking you know the depths and literature of an entire book. Is this the value of whatever you may follow? Shows the belief system you follow, and the ethics and morals by which you stand to follow. You have to understand Guru Nanak talked to many people in his time, scientific people of his era, people of other faiths and so on. The Guru's used terms in the Guru Granth Sahib ji to explain to the world the concept of god, with concepts used and heard, they did not create a totally new language, I guess we did get Gurmukhi to a degree from them to try and make an answer to your reasonings on some level but it was never totally ununderstandable if god created a whole new language that no one else could understand, if that happened then by your reasoning I guess you could call that a revelation of god, but who would listen to a person talking complete utter "gibberish"= ("Imran",lol) you would need some type of coding or something to make the common man understand something, otherwise what's the point in the whole process of it all who would understand something in a language no one else understands so they used terms and words they have heard, its the only thing a sane person can comprehend with. On how a message could make sense to the world as it was, they use the word Allah, not because they where Muslims but to explain the thoughts to different people what they thought Allah was, they use the word ram not because they were Hindu's but to tell people in there terms what god was and so on and so forth. Different ways to explain the message of god as there is only one god but people have divided the value they made the message value equal to all people, they travelled to people from all walks of life and all types of people with all types of understanding came to them. They have tried to explain the message of something so complex into something understandable, however it came however inspired they did the deed god requested Guru Nanak to do. I am a Sikh and I believe we are all learning even you Imran, so sorry for my little joke!

 

[secular thiest]

hi everyone ive read the guru granth and ive read these verse can you explain please what they mean ??

Page485 Line 8 Raag Aasaa: Saint Nam Dev

bieAwlIs lK jI jl mih hoqy bITlu BYlw kwie krau ]1]
baeiaalees lakh jee jal mehi hothae beethal bhailaa kaae karo ||1||
But 4.2 million species of beings are in the water - how can I use it for the Lord, O Siblings of Destiny? ||1||

Page526 Line 3 Raag Goojree: Saint Trilochan

lK caurwsIh ijin@ aupweI so ismrhu inrbwxI ]3]
lakh chouraaseeh jinih oupaaee so simarahu nirabaanee ||3||
Meditate on the Lord of Nirvaanaa, who has created the 8.4 million species of beings. ||3||


lK caurwsIh mydnI GtY n vDY auqwih ]
lakh chouraaseeh maedhanee ghattai n vadhhai outhaahi ||
They will pass through 8.4 millions species; this number does not decrease or rise.

Because biologist believe there are as many as 100,000 million species can you please please explain what this means

becuase i really find this as a contradiction in scientific fact thats why i would like to now if any sikh could explain what this means

Cheers

Imran I know the purpose of your visit here is to do dawa. Yes you correctly noticed the errors in SGGS. But Quran has much more errors. Adam and Eve is completely debunked. Lots of Sikhs here have tried to answer but hardly anyone gave any logical answer because logical answers do not exist in religions. The 8.4 million figure is a direct copy from old Hindu/Jain scriptures. The correctness of this figure goes out of question when you know from where Hindus got this figure.
7 lakh on land, 7 lakh in air, 7 lakh made of fire, etc. now tell me which species is made of fire?
Sikhs will try to explain it away by saying that it is not literal, that it is metaphorical, and so on (same as Muslims or any other), but the question arises why not use a correct number and if an incorrect one is used why even bother to say that it has some knowledge in it. It is unfalsifiable claim when you say that it is just a metaphor .
There are several other copy/pasted from older Hindu scriptures. The concept of agas/patal, which is blatantly incorrect. There are not patals, earth is round and solid (confirmed by seismic studies). Swans eating pearls. Sikhs will say it is metaphorical. No metaphors don’t work this way.

 

[P J Singh]

Guru Fetah Ji:

I am sorry to say the individual who is asking this question does not seem to understand what Gurbani is really saying:

1) Gurbani is saying 8.4 millions forms of life ( Juun); not 8.4 million species ( as he has framed it in his question)

For example, snake is one form of life ( one Juun) but there are perhaps hundreds and thousands of species of snake.

Butterfly is one form of life (Juun) but there are again perhaps hundreds of thousands of species.

Dog is one form of life ( Juun) but there are hundreds of breeds of dogs!!

Even as humans, our form of life (or Juun) is one but we are just one of many spices of humans. Our current species ( that is you and me) is called Homo sapiens; there were other human species in the past : Homo Habilis, Homo heidelbergenis, Homo naledi and so on......

So Mr. Imran, please note your understanding and interpretation of Gurbani with respect to this question is fundamentally flawed, as i see it. But thank you for asking this question because this is one of the ways to learn and grow.

Guru Fetah

 

[P J Singh]

Another point to my preceding post please.

Dear Mr. Imran, I do not know about other religious writings but what I know, admire and respect about Guru Granth Sahib, among many other remarkable things in it, is this that it forewarns its readers that reading of Guru Granth Sahib should not and must not be a casual reading like a ritual, it demands use of "Bibak Budh" which means reading and understanding of Guru Granth Sahib must be based on logical, analytical and evaluative exploration. It is like churning milk to seek butter of it.

You are perhaps right ( but I don't know) there may be more than 100 million species in the world , as you state in this thread somewhere; Gurbani is talking about 8.4 million forms of life (Juun) not about the number of species. Hope it helps you.

I personally enjoy asking questions but unless our intent in asking is sincere we do not grow and learn and remain wrapped up in our ignorance.

Guru Fetah

 

[swarn bains]

re 8.4 million
my version is that there are 8 watches of the day. there are four sources of regeneration and hundreds of thousands of birth take place during that time. that makes 8.4 million