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Wonderful Excerpts Of SPN Member Confused Ji's Post
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<blockquote data-quote="Parma" data-source="post: 164486" data-attributes="member: 4724"><p>Confused ji, :whatzpointsing:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote: Confused: The points have perhaps been made, but the way it has been laid out this time is different. The purpose is to identify at what level exactly the disagreement begins. So you should not make this particular excuse.</p><p></p><p>Parma: The disagreement begins at you saying thought does not exist. We went through that debate, and the end has come to this meaningless exercise.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: I say thoughts do not exist and you say it does, and that’s it? I want to find out what you think about other aspects of phenomena so as to see what the difficulty is and you say it is a meaningless exercise?</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">The difficulty is you don’t understand what thought is. Simple end of. There is nothing else to the debate on the issue if you end with not agreeing with each other’s ideas I guess you have to agree to disagree and move on otherwise you end up just debating ego’s yours is lot bigger than mine so I stopped at that point debating. You obviously are a conceited individual so what do you expect to gain from me, by carrying on it will only lead to you projecting your own conceited view without reasoning with mine, which has no relevance for me unless you are willing to reason. Will I don’t want to discuss other aspects of phenomena next you’ll be talking about ghosts and aliens, totally off the point of debate. You don’t think you have thought so from my point there is no point to discuss with you as that would be the equivalent of talking to a brick wall. You have not agreed with my suggestions that thought exist then it becomes end of and so good luck to you. Unless you are considering a whole new debate. To be really truthful without being nasty you just bore me with your reply’s and I can’t be bother to engage with something that bores me. Too much information in a web posting dude get a life. Sorry to be blunt, but I work as well </span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">What if I said that you are copping out from a difficult exercise for fear of your own weakness being exposed? </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">What if I said that you are only carrying on with this in fear of exposing your own weakness? Your debates are making no sense so what is the worth of your debating unless it is conceit.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">You feel you can expose a weakness out of me, what is there to expose? I could be a criminal a priest anything what is there to expose of me, (I am a human)? I am already the learner the Sikh. If that is your whole basis of you wanting to carry on with this debate then that is you exposing your own weakness, how much of a conceited individual you must be. You really are a piece of work if that is the whole basis of your own development. What weakness are you trying to expose? If we are to work on this together then for me it would be to expose an Idea that doesn’t make sense that you are debating. The debate was about thought, moving away to create a debate on a strong or a weak individual instead of idea is your own confusion. I am already the weak, I am already the humble, and whatever I have in me is by god’s grace. I am saying unless the debate can produce further knowledge on the whole point then you just end up debating each other as we are now and not the topic. </span></p><p> <span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">I suggest that you prove that I’m wrong by responding one by one to all those propositions I put forward. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">I do not want to prove you are wrong if after all the debating you think you are still right carry on. I am not your councillor. I am not here to judge you. Appreciate your own mind if you are happy with it and you are not oppressing knowledge or life carry on. Life will teach you, waheguru god. </span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote: Confused: It is your own ignorance which is projecting this. </p><p>I asked you to give your opinion to each of my propositions. You should therefore state and give reason as to which of those propositions stand as hypothesis. To suggest that it is all hypothesis and then go on to say that I do it to suppress knowledge is not fair. </p><p></p><p>Parma: Your basis of knowledge of the concept of no thought, is a hypothesis you have no facts to back it no scientific facts at all.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: You want scientific facts when both of us are in fact having the experience now and can refer to it, something which a scientist will also have to do in order to be able to say anything worthwhile about the subject? Indeed this is something without which, I wouldn’t be able to write this message nor you be able to read it, or the scientist to come up with any answer about it.</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">So it is not I who is putting forward a hypothesis, but you, who in referring to scientific fact, is looking for one, and this is due to your not knowing reality.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">No, both of us are not having the same experience here and now not both of us anyway. You said you don’t think there is any thought so you are not then having the experience. P.s. You can not scientifically prove something so in-depth on a few comments Mr Delusion boy! The experiment could be unfair I could be discussing with more the one person in your reply’s and other factors aswell </span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: Please prove the facts, otherwise I can conclude that you are giving a baseless hypothesis on that thoughts do not exist.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: In putting forward all those propositions, this is just what I was attempting to do. Let’s say then, that you make an attempt to respond to it the way I suggested.</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span><span style="color: #548DD4">You could maybe write about the study of the mind but to scientifically prove it is an unwholesome experience on a few postings</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: P.s. You wanted to change the wording of Object of thought to concept of thought. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: Apparently you did not carefully read what I wrote.</span></p><p><span style="color: red">I differentiate thought from thinking and suggested that the former is the object of the latter. I said that thought does not exist, so why would I then go on to say that thought has an object? Neither did I refer anywhere to “concept of thought”. What I did was to suggest that if you wish to limit “thought” to a meaning other than what I use, we can replace thought with concept as being object of thinking. To recap: </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Same as what I said I think you did not carefully consider and read what I wrote</span></p><p> <span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">Thoughts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks thoughts. If you do not like the way I use the word “thought”, we can replace it with “concept”. So we then have concepts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks concepts.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Madness do you think like this all the time? Or do you not think?</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: Why dont you just call it thought as that is what we were debating, thought is a word it has a meaning a definition in the dictionary. You say it does not exist.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: If you wish to stick to the dictionary meaning, then we should replace thought with “concept”. But this is from one dictionary:</span></p><p><span style="color: red">THOUGHT</span></p><p><span style="color: red">Noun:</span></p><p><span style="color: red">1. the act or process of thinking; deliberation, meditation, or reflection</span></p><p><span style="color: red">2. a concept, opinion, or idea</span></p><p><span style="color: red">3. philosophical or intellectual ideas typical of a particular time or place German thought in the 19th century</span></p><p><span style="color: red">4. application of mental attention; consideration he gave the matter some thought</span></p><p><span style="color: red">5. purpose or intention I have no thought of giving up</span></p><p><span style="color: red">6. expectation no thought of reward</span></p><p><span style="color: red">7. a small amount; trifle you could be a thought more enthusiastic</span></p><p><span style="color: red">8. kindness or regard he has no thought for his widowed mother</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">The way I have been using it is as in number 2. You should not unnecessarily argue with me about this, given how I have been using it is quite clear. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">What is clear here?</span></p><p> <span style="color: red"> If you wish to debate semantics, don’t bother doing it with me. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">So you are no better either, don’t bother doing it with me either. I don’t want to do anything with you either, lover boy!</span></p><p> <span style="color: red"> I’m interested in discussing about reality and not the labels.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">If you are really interested in discussing reality just look around you be sincere and to the point instead of mumbling. Just get to the point be concise and clear, which you are not </span></p><p> <span style="color: red"> If you consider any word I use inappropriate, I’d even accept a new word invented by you. But let’s not waste time arguing about such things.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: I hope my few and brief words are measured with the equal weight to your quantity and vastness of your words.</p><p></p><p>Quote: Confused: It is very possible that the fault lies in my own denseness. But you’ll have to try some more to prove that to me.</p><p></p><p>Parma: I believe I have through all my postings</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: If I have used a great many words, it is with the intention to be as clear as possible. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">That is the point your intention to make things clear in fact makes the process unclear, you use so many words like your paragraph below for instance, that it makes no sense at all. If I am curt with you child it is because you are getting on my nerves (which is not down to low self esteem, it is down to only one fact, that you are annoying). I have explained to you once and again that your style is making no sense. I would be able to make more sense of it, if you simplified it otherwise it is just a waste of mental matter. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">“ </span><span style="color: red">Thoughts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks thoughts. If you do not like the way I use the word “thought”, we can replace it with “concept”. So we then have concepts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks concepts.</span><span style="color: #548DD4">”</span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: red">Indeed you should try to match that, and if you can’t just say so and it is fine.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">I will match something that is clear and to the point if I can make sense of it. If I cannot match it due to your confusion and delusion of words, which is what your style is based on when debating. Your style then is not of any better intellect to call that a win or a better intellect in a debate is in fact a weak response.</span></p><p> <span style="color: red"> But don't go on to speak as though you have done a great job whereas I have failed. </span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Confused you have not failed you are worthy in your own right to your own thoughts. Sometimes I do go off on a tangent as well we are only humans but when someone is annoying you we do have our limits. Try having a debate without mentioning my name</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote: Parma: Like my Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, sava lakh se ek laroo, my one Sikh is worthy to fight thousands of oppressors.</p><p></p><p>Quote: Confused: So your enemies are those outside of you and not your own accumulated unwholesome tendencies? Right, after all you are the “one Sikh” of Guru Gobind Singh ji, your mind must be more or less cleansed of impurities. </p><p></p><p>Parma: You are making assumptions here! I have not stated that I am the only one sikh the whole world is sikh = student, this is going off topic a bit and could be discussed at a later addition.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: I did not imply that you were the only one, but the one that I now know with the particular qualification.</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Please read what you wrote you wrote one Sikh. You did not imply that at the time you are now making it up!</span></p><p> </p><p>Parma: I have not stated that I have any higher qualities as you are assuming, I have constantly written about me being a sikh and constantly learning.</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C:This is from your original post:</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">Quote:</span></p><p><span style="color: red">Before I go I would like to add that your style is familiar with the Mughal rulers of India that tried to suppress Sikhism. You are hypothesising to suppress knowledge with your formation of language. I hope my few and brief words are measured with the equal weight to your quantity and vastness of your words. Like my Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, sava lakh se ek laroo, my one Sikh is worthy to fight thousands of oppressors. My few humble words and statements have sure given truths to my sentences, whether you regard them as so is your interpretation of it.</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">Although I was being somewhat sarcastic, this apparently was not without a base.`</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">What base dude are you now on about music?</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: You seem to be aware on how to totally break free from unwholesome tendencies, but fact is it is all contradiction</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: My understanding is mostly at the intellectual level, hence light years away from being free of unwholesome tendencies. </span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">How did I contradict myself?</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">You live in light years? Are you in space?</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: you are constantly breaking and learning even a thought at the pinnacle of peace it is constantly adapting and changing and forming that is why god is the unknowable. What I am stating is I am a sikh I am willing to learn only I will not take miss information as learning it is a hinderance to learning.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: If you would care to go step by step, I will be able to provide arguments to support the suggestion that yours is in fact learning that is based entirely on concepts which can never be proven through experience, but only through reliance on agreed upon convention, or in other words, by force of thinking.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Yes sunshine lets go step by stop! And then step by step</span><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: Just like your assumption that thought does not exist. Sorry if I have not been clear on the above explaination. What I am getting at is that one truthful word is paramount to a thousand miss conceptions of dense untruthful words</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: I invite you to start from the very beginning to find out if in fact what I stated is based on assumption.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Assuming you are thinking are you the thought?</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Parma: To stand up to oppression is a humble act. You may not think so. I do. As my individual importance of existance is wholly lower than the importance to resist oppression </p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: To stand up to oppression while coming from the perception of “I” vs. “they” is most definitely not a humble act. Any attempt at further qualification by such suggestions as “my individual importance of existence is wholly lower than the importance to resist oppression” is just a game played by conceit.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Playing with conceit can be so mundane can’t it. Are you implying you play with yourself, that is conceited? Do you have problems with this, is this the point of the debate!</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote: Confused: Poetic. But too bad, I don't like poetry and have no regard for poets.</p><p></p><p>Parma: It is quite sad that you have such unwholesome tendencies towards poems, it is a shame as civilised cultures have given birth to such beautiful literature through poetry. The Guru Granth Sahib ji is compositions of beautiful raag's, some individuals may call it very poetic aswell. Your loss you are missing out on a whole world of literature that may help you on your journey to relieve these unwholesome tendencies</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red">C: You would not consider the different authors in the Guru Granth Sahib as poets, of course.</span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">I used to like poetry such as those by Wordsworth and Rilke, and I heard poets being praised for their ability to see things which the average person is incapable of. Later however, after having some understanding about reality, I came to the conclusion that both the poet and those who praise them are in fact “uninstructed worldlings”, namely those who have absolutely no clue as to what reality / Truth is.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">Uninstructed worldlings, are you above the world can you see the sky can you smell what the rock is cooking?</span><span style="color: red"> </span></p><p><span style="color: red"></span></p><p><span style="color: red">Therefore although my dislike for poetry may in fact be aversion, hence unwholesome and wrong, my having no regard for poets is however not. And if I point out their wrongness to other people, this must in fact be a good thing. If you can’t appreciate this, the loss is yours, not mine.</span></p><p> <span style="color: #548DD4">So you agree unwholesome is wrong so you have a loss of appreciation, you are unwholesome. Tragic!!!</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Parma, post: 164486, member: 4724"] Confused ji, :whatzpointsing: Quote: Confused: The points have perhaps been made, but the way it has been laid out this time is different. The purpose is to identify at what level exactly the disagreement begins. So you should not make this particular excuse. Parma: The disagreement begins at you saying thought does not exist. We went through that debate, and the end has come to this meaningless exercise. [COLOR=red]C: I say thoughts do not exist and you say it does, and that’s it? I want to find out what you think about other aspects of phenomena so as to see what the difficulty is and you say it is a meaningless exercise?[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]The difficulty is you don’t understand what thought is. Simple end of. There is nothing else to the debate on the issue if you end with not agreeing with each other’s ideas I guess you have to agree to disagree and move on otherwise you end up just debating ego’s yours is lot bigger than mine so I stopped at that point debating. You obviously are a conceited individual so what do you expect to gain from me, by carrying on it will only lead to you projecting your own conceited view without reasoning with mine, which has no relevance for me unless you are willing to reason. Will I don’t want to discuss other aspects of phenomena next you’ll be talking about ghosts and aliens, totally off the point of debate. You don’t think you have thought so from my point there is no point to discuss with you as that would be the equivalent of talking to a brick wall. You have not agreed with my suggestions that thought exist then it becomes end of and so good luck to you. Unless you are considering a whole new debate. To be really truthful without being nasty you just bore me with your reply’s and I can’t be bother to engage with something that bores me. Too much information in a web posting dude get a life. Sorry to be blunt, but I work as well [/COLOR] [COLOR=red] [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4] [/COLOR] [COLOR=red] What if I said that you are copping out from a difficult exercise for fear of your own weakness being exposed? [/COLOR][COLOR=#548DD4][/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]What if I said that you are only carrying on with this in fear of exposing your own weakness? Your debates are making no sense so what is the worth of your debating unless it is conceit.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]You feel you can expose a weakness out of me, what is there to expose? I could be a criminal a priest anything what is there to expose of me, (I am a human)? I am already the learner the Sikh. If that is your whole basis of you wanting to carry on with this debate then that is you exposing your own weakness, how much of a conceited individual you must be. You really are a piece of work if that is the whole basis of your own development. What weakness are you trying to expose? If we are to work on this together then for me it would be to expose an Idea that doesn’t make sense that you are debating. The debate was about thought, moving away to create a debate on a strong or a weak individual instead of idea is your own confusion. I am already the weak, I am already the humble, and whatever I have in me is by god’s grace. I am saying unless the debate can produce further knowledge on the whole point then you just end up debating each other as we are now and not the topic. [/COLOR] [COLOR=red] I suggest that you prove that I’m wrong by responding one by one to all those propositions I put forward. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]I do not want to prove you are wrong if after all the debating you think you are still right carry on. I am not your councillor. I am not here to judge you. Appreciate your own mind if you are happy with it and you are not oppressing knowledge or life carry on. Life will teach you, waheguru god. [/COLOR] Quote: Confused: It is your own ignorance which is projecting this. I asked you to give your opinion to each of my propositions. You should therefore state and give reason as to which of those propositions stand as hypothesis. To suggest that it is all hypothesis and then go on to say that I do it to suppress knowledge is not fair. Parma: Your basis of knowledge of the concept of no thought, is a hypothesis you have no facts to back it no scientific facts at all. [COLOR=red]C: You want scientific facts when both of us are in fact having the experience now and can refer to it, something which a scientist will also have to do in order to be able to say anything worthwhile about the subject? Indeed this is something without which, I wouldn’t be able to write this message nor you be able to read it, or the scientist to come up with any answer about it. So it is not I who is putting forward a hypothesis, but you, who in referring to scientific fact, is looking for one, and this is due to your not knowing reality.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]No, both of us are not having the same experience here and now not both of us anyway. You said you don’t think there is any thought so you are not then having the experience. P.s. You can not scientifically prove something so in-depth on a few comments Mr Delusion boy! The experiment could be unfair I could be discussing with more the one person in your reply’s and other factors aswell [/COLOR] Parma: Please prove the facts, otherwise I can conclude that you are giving a baseless hypothesis on that thoughts do not exist. [COLOR=red]C: In putting forward all those propositions, this is just what I was attempting to do. Let’s say then, that you make an attempt to respond to it the way I suggested. [/COLOR][COLOR=#548DD4]You could maybe write about the study of the mind but to scientifically prove it is an unwholesome experience on a few postings[/COLOR] Parma: P.s. You wanted to change the wording of Object of thought to concept of thought. [COLOR=red]C: Apparently you did not carefully read what I wrote. I differentiate thought from thinking and suggested that the former is the object of the latter. I said that thought does not exist, so why would I then go on to say that thought has an object? Neither did I refer anywhere to “concept of thought”. What I did was to suggest that if you wish to limit “thought” to a meaning other than what I use, we can replace thought with concept as being object of thinking. To recap: [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Same as what I said I think you did not carefully consider and read what I wrote[/COLOR] [COLOR=red] Thoughts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks thoughts. If you do not like the way I use the word “thought”, we can replace it with “concept”. So we then have concepts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks concepts.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Madness do you think like this all the time? Or do you not think?[/COLOR] Parma: Why dont you just call it thought as that is what we were debating, thought is a word it has a meaning a definition in the dictionary. You say it does not exist. [COLOR=red]C: If you wish to stick to the dictionary meaning, then we should replace thought with “concept”. But this is from one dictionary: THOUGHT Noun: 1. the act or process of thinking; deliberation, meditation, or reflection 2. a concept, opinion, or idea 3. philosophical or intellectual ideas typical of a particular time or place German thought in the 19th century 4. application of mental attention; consideration he gave the matter some thought 5. purpose or intention I have no thought of giving up 6. expectation no thought of reward 7. a small amount; trifle you could be a thought more enthusiastic 8. kindness or regard he has no thought for his widowed mother The way I have been using it is as in number 2. You should not unnecessarily argue with me about this, given how I have been using it is quite clear. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]What is clear here?[/COLOR] [COLOR=red] If you wish to debate semantics, don’t bother doing it with me. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]So you are no better either, don’t bother doing it with me either. I don’t want to do anything with you either, lover boy![/COLOR] [COLOR=red] I’m interested in discussing about reality and not the labels.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]If you are really interested in discussing reality just look around you be sincere and to the point instead of mumbling. Just get to the point be concise and clear, which you are not [/COLOR] [COLOR=red] If you consider any word I use inappropriate, I’d even accept a new word invented by you. But let’s not waste time arguing about such things.[/COLOR] Parma: I hope my few and brief words are measured with the equal weight to your quantity and vastness of your words. Quote: Confused: It is very possible that the fault lies in my own denseness. But you’ll have to try some more to prove that to me. Parma: I believe I have through all my postings [COLOR=red]C: If I have used a great many words, it is with the intention to be as clear as possible. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]That is the point your intention to make things clear in fact makes the process unclear, you use so many words like your paragraph below for instance, that it makes no sense at all. If I am curt with you child it is because you are getting on my nerves (which is not down to low self esteem, it is down to only one fact, that you are annoying). I have explained to you once and again that your style is making no sense. I would be able to make more sense of it, if you simplified it otherwise it is just a waste of mental matter. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]“ [/COLOR][COLOR=red]Thoughts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks thoughts. If you do not like the way I use the word “thought”, we can replace it with “concept”. So we then have concepts are object of thinking or in other words, thinking thinks concepts.[/COLOR][COLOR=#548DD4]”[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4] [/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Indeed you should try to match that, and if you can’t just say so and it is fine.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]I will match something that is clear and to the point if I can make sense of it. If I cannot match it due to your confusion and delusion of words, which is what your style is based on when debating. Your style then is not of any better intellect to call that a win or a better intellect in a debate is in fact a weak response.[/COLOR] [COLOR=red] But don't go on to speak as though you have done a great job whereas I have failed. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Confused you have not failed you are worthy in your own right to your own thoughts. Sometimes I do go off on a tangent as well we are only humans but when someone is annoying you we do have our limits. Try having a debate without mentioning my name[/COLOR] Quote: Parma: Like my Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, sava lakh se ek laroo, my one Sikh is worthy to fight thousands of oppressors. Quote: Confused: So your enemies are those outside of you and not your own accumulated unwholesome tendencies? Right, after all you are the “one Sikh” of Guru Gobind Singh ji, your mind must be more or less cleansed of impurities. Parma: You are making assumptions here! I have not stated that I am the only one sikh the whole world is sikh = student, this is going off topic a bit and could be discussed at a later addition. [COLOR=red]C: I did not imply that you were the only one, but the one that I now know with the particular qualification.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4][/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Please read what you wrote you wrote one Sikh. You did not imply that at the time you are now making it up![/COLOR] Parma: I have not stated that I have any higher qualities as you are assuming, I have constantly written about me being a sikh and constantly learning. [COLOR=red]C:This is from your original post: Quote: Before I go I would like to add that your style is familiar with the Mughal rulers of India that tried to suppress Sikhism. You are hypothesising to suppress knowledge with your formation of language. I hope my few and brief words are measured with the equal weight to your quantity and vastness of your words. Like my Guru Gobind Singh Ji said, sava lakh se ek laroo, my one Sikh is worthy to fight thousands of oppressors. My few humble words and statements have sure given truths to my sentences, whether you regard them as so is your interpretation of it. Although I was being somewhat sarcastic, this apparently was not without a base.`[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]What base dude are you now on about music?[/COLOR] Parma: You seem to be aware on how to totally break free from unwholesome tendencies, but fact is it is all contradiction [COLOR=red]C: My understanding is mostly at the intellectual level, hence light years away from being free of unwholesome tendencies. How did I contradict myself?[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]You live in light years? Are you in space?[/COLOR] Parma: you are constantly breaking and learning even a thought at the pinnacle of peace it is constantly adapting and changing and forming that is why god is the unknowable. What I am stating is I am a sikh I am willing to learn only I will not take miss information as learning it is a hinderance to learning. [COLOR=red]C: If you would care to go step by step, I will be able to provide arguments to support the suggestion that yours is in fact learning that is based entirely on concepts which can never be proven through experience, but only through reliance on agreed upon convention, or in other words, by force of thinking.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Yes sunshine lets go step by stop! And then step by step[/COLOR][COLOR=red] [/COLOR] Parma: Just like your assumption that thought does not exist. Sorry if I have not been clear on the above explaination. What I am getting at is that one truthful word is paramount to a thousand miss conceptions of dense untruthful words [COLOR=red]C: I invite you to start from the very beginning to find out if in fact what I stated is based on assumption.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Assuming you are thinking are you the thought?[/COLOR] Parma: To stand up to oppression is a humble act. You may not think so. I do. As my individual importance of existance is wholly lower than the importance to resist oppression [COLOR=red]C: To stand up to oppression while coming from the perception of “I” vs. “they” is most definitely not a humble act. Any attempt at further qualification by such suggestions as “my individual importance of existence is wholly lower than the importance to resist oppression” is just a game played by conceit.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Playing with conceit can be so mundane can’t it. Are you implying you play with yourself, that is conceited? Do you have problems with this, is this the point of the debate![/COLOR] Quote: Confused: Poetic. But too bad, I don't like poetry and have no regard for poets. Parma: It is quite sad that you have such unwholesome tendencies towards poems, it is a shame as civilised cultures have given birth to such beautiful literature through poetry. The Guru Granth Sahib ji is compositions of beautiful raag's, some individuals may call it very poetic aswell. Your loss you are missing out on a whole world of literature that may help you on your journey to relieve these unwholesome tendencies [COLOR=red]C: You would not consider the different authors in the Guru Granth Sahib as poets, of course. I used to like poetry such as those by Wordsworth and Rilke, and I heard poets being praised for their ability to see things which the average person is incapable of. Later however, after having some understanding about reality, I came to the conclusion that both the poet and those who praise them are in fact “uninstructed worldlings”, namely those who have absolutely no clue as to what reality / Truth is.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]Uninstructed worldlings, are you above the world can you see the sky can you smell what the rock is cooking?[/COLOR][COLOR=red] Therefore although my dislike for poetry may in fact be aversion, hence unwholesome and wrong, my having no regard for poets is however not. And if I point out their wrongness to other people, this must in fact be a good thing. If you can’t appreciate this, the loss is yours, not mine.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#548DD4]So you agree unwholesome is wrong so you have a loss of appreciation, you are unwholesome. Tragic!!![/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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