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Why Should Men In Uniform Be Forced To Shave?
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<blockquote data-quote="Harkiran Kaur" data-source="post: 190957" data-attributes="member: 18224"><p><strong>Re: Should Men in Uniform Be Forced to Shave?</strong></p><p></p><p>The biggest issue (sorry to resurrect an old thread but it was linked on the girls shaving thread and I thought it's related) anyway the biggest issue with beards in the military is maintaining a seal in a face mask... gas mask... fire fighting mask etc. Its not a matter of looks or conforming at all. It's safety. In the Navy, beards have always been allowed anyway but as long as they dont interfere with maintaining a seal with a mask. I think in this case, it comes down to choice and maybe it isnt the best career choice for a full bearded Sikh man, and not because of discrimination but having been through gas hut training and fire fighting training myself, I know first hand how bad it is if you can not maintain a seal. I have on several occassions not had my mask tight enough and breathed in CS gas (tear gas) in training.. If I had of been in a real situation with nerve agents etc instead of tear gas I would have been dead instead of just in discomfort with burning eyes and nose. In my case it was lack of experience and not having the mask straps tightened enough, but some men I know in the Navy were forced to shave (they weren't Sikh) because they could not get a seal at all with their beard. </p><p></p><p>Maybe the military could look into making special masks for people with full beards that come further down the neck or something, in order to get a full seal. But then, those people would have to carry the mask everywhere with them on board as the fire fighting stations etc only have one size mask... medium and are communal... as in everyone has to make them fit because its not possible to issue everyone their own fire fighting kit on a small boat where space is limited. Gas masks ARE actually issued to each individual though... but A submarine is even worse because in addition to fire fighting masks, there are emergency breathing masks because any atmospheric contaminant can be deadly... these masks are all around the submarine for immediate use to plug into a rail which provides emergency air from bottles stored outside the pressure hull. Again, one size fits all... medium. One of our subs had a fire on board in 2005 and one Officer died from smoke inhalation because he didnt get a mask on in time... a beard causing a broken seal would have resulted in the same outcome because the masks are on demand... if you are getting air from around the mask from a broken seal, then the regulator wont open to allow the good air into the mask. </p><p></p><p>So I am torn... I think Sikhs should be allowed to keep the beard if working on base, or even deployed in army... maybe they can use a larger gas mask to fit around the beard.... I don't know... But I am torn on the issue of fire fighting etc at sea because that Sikh would be taking a huge risk with their own life if they cant get a seal on their mask. And I would never want to see someone die needlessly...</p><p></p><p>Maybe there are other options too like carrying a packet of petroleum jelly and using that as a sealant around the mask edges... we use that trick sometimes with oxygen masks from the bag valve mask to ventilate someone that is hard to get a seal on.. But it would need to be applied very quickly in an emergency and would no doubt be difficult to remove from the beard afterward... but at least it might help save someone's life...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harkiran Kaur, post: 190957, member: 18224"] [b]Re: Should Men in Uniform Be Forced to Shave?[/b] The biggest issue (sorry to resurrect an old thread but it was linked on the girls shaving thread and I thought it's related) anyway the biggest issue with beards in the military is maintaining a seal in a face mask... gas mask... fire fighting mask etc. Its not a matter of looks or conforming at all. It's safety. In the Navy, beards have always been allowed anyway but as long as they dont interfere with maintaining a seal with a mask. I think in this case, it comes down to choice and maybe it isnt the best career choice for a full bearded Sikh man, and not because of discrimination but having been through gas hut training and fire fighting training myself, I know first hand how bad it is if you can not maintain a seal. I have on several occassions not had my mask tight enough and breathed in CS gas (tear gas) in training.. If I had of been in a real situation with nerve agents etc instead of tear gas I would have been dead instead of just in discomfort with burning eyes and nose. In my case it was lack of experience and not having the mask straps tightened enough, but some men I know in the Navy were forced to shave (they weren't Sikh) because they could not get a seal at all with their beard. Maybe the military could look into making special masks for people with full beards that come further down the neck or something, in order to get a full seal. But then, those people would have to carry the mask everywhere with them on board as the fire fighting stations etc only have one size mask... medium and are communal... as in everyone has to make them fit because its not possible to issue everyone their own fire fighting kit on a small boat where space is limited. Gas masks ARE actually issued to each individual though... but A submarine is even worse because in addition to fire fighting masks, there are emergency breathing masks because any atmospheric contaminant can be deadly... these masks are all around the submarine for immediate use to plug into a rail which provides emergency air from bottles stored outside the pressure hull. Again, one size fits all... medium. One of our subs had a fire on board in 2005 and one Officer died from smoke inhalation because he didnt get a mask on in time... a beard causing a broken seal would have resulted in the same outcome because the masks are on demand... if you are getting air from around the mask from a broken seal, then the regulator wont open to allow the good air into the mask. So I am torn... I think Sikhs should be allowed to keep the beard if working on base, or even deployed in army... maybe they can use a larger gas mask to fit around the beard.... I don't know... But I am torn on the issue of fire fighting etc at sea because that Sikh would be taking a huge risk with their own life if they cant get a seal on their mask. And I would never want to see someone die needlessly... Maybe there are other options too like carrying a packet of petroleum jelly and using that as a sealant around the mask edges... we use that trick sometimes with oxygen masks from the bag valve mask to ventilate someone that is hard to get a seal on.. But it would need to be applied very quickly in an emergency and would no doubt be difficult to remove from the beard afterward... but at least it might help save someone's life... [/QUOTE]
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