☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ambarsaria" data-source="post: 179269" data-attributes="member: 14194"><p>Confused ji thanks for your response. Some comments I have listed here.</p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Confused ji give me an example of the following,</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em></em></span> </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>“<strong>nature of cause</strong>”</em></span></li> </ul><p> </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Blue"><em>“<strong><u>resultant</u>”</strong></em></span></li> </ul><p><span style="color: Blue"><em> Confused ji, explain to me if one cannot map cause-result incidents then how can “tendencies” be so observed. I believe you make a big deal out of it as though Sikhism rejects that people can have habits, tendencies, etc., gained through actions and supporting results whether they like such 100% or get used to these for much less than 100% satisfaction/attachment.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Confused ji you are the one with sustained emphasis on rising and falling instantaneous volitions in mind. Rest of the world works by observing the macro impacts as in “as you sow so shall you reap”, “controlling five deficiencies as in Kam, karodh, lobh, moh and ahankar”. You are telling all to focus on mental rising/falling instances (micro) and saying the macro like “as you sow so shall you reap” being too hard to validate. Indeed much is too hard to validate and absence such validation the evil merchants invent Karma so that they can control the masses with smoke and mirrors. Mega businesses including some of the largest religions which teach them to avoid bad karma, give potions to correct bad karma, sell shells and stones to wear to avoid bad karma, etc. Such list is so long it is a joke that person astute as yourself somehow does not see practical impact of Karmic thinking as the mega trap that it is. </em></span></p><p> <span style="color: Blue"><em>Confused ji you raise a very good point. Fundamental in Sikhism is the interplay of elements. “You sow so shall you reap” is not a stand alone concept. It goes along with much other to be raised in wisdom acquisition. “Consonance” with rest of creation is also very fundamental. Many a Japanese getting swallowed by the Tsunami while the birds fly merrily above the waves is not Karma. It is an interplay of “you sow so shall you reap” as well as “consonance”. If one were to not built a house so close to shore, one would not be swallowed by the sea. Can we acquire perfect wisdom to be in total control of all unknowns that we are never surprised and live happily or as we please every moment of our lives? Sikhism suggests we continue to gain such wisdom while with eyes, ears and mind wide open that there will never be a gaining of all wisdom that affects all. The magic potion of Karma is just an illusion which in practicality is addressed front and centre this way as nothing more than height of extreme ignorance.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>It is the falsehood premise of Karmic thought that is an issue. I believe such Buddhists rightfully extend the true statement and exposition of Karma as described and postulated. So I say they are right and in their righteousness of understanding and postulation they are proving how Karma is bogus concept like a banana leaf tainted with pesticides used to serve pure food.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Confused ji if I were to take an assessment of how many Buddhists you have put down, I believe it will approach about 100%. I do believe you made statements like that in other posts but I have no problem being held to error or be corrected.</em></span></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: Blue"><em>You have clearly stated to Tejwant Singh ji that there was nothing written by Buddha. So somehow you have made a connection of purity to Buddha through a silken thread of unknown thickness. I am starting to doubt that.</em></span></p><p> <span style="color: Blue"><em>Sikhs have very strongly as a community or in greater preponderance shown this aspect. Do you believe it has anything to do with the teachings of our Guru jis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji!</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em></em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Your caring examples and statements I don’t care too much about. We fail sometimes and we succeed sometimes and there is no one perfect in this regard.</em> </span></p><p> <span style="color: Blue"><em>Sikhism does not disapprove of Darwin’s evolution and natural selection aspects. I assume you do and believe that we just happened as in Adam-Eve and like garbage stories that forms basis of other religions you mention. Brother false foundations cannot support a house of truths so do a retrospection. Our Guru jis did and hence Sikhism.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Poor God! If you were to state that creation can be perversely equated to ego you may have a point. Creation is perhaps laughing at all of us for our stupidities and approaches as we look for the magic key (Karma) or such other magic potions. In the mean time the ice age cometh with or without the existence or non-existence of Karma. Why so! Because that is consonance and that is creation we are part of. As Luckysingh ji posted, we are just objects none more rare than any other nor can we judge so on behalf of creation.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>Sikhism supports your observation and debunks your so called “super controller” argument as it only says we are of one and in one creation.</em></span></p><p><em><span style="color: Blue">Confused ji you can keep calling white black till the cows come home. It does not change anything. Your unique view of Karma is not how it is understood by 99.99999+%. You change those 99.99999+% before you change the definition or common prevalent understanding. It does not work to call the whole world as wrong. If you want to call your understanding something else perhaps there will be more coincidental, cordial and synergistic dialog. I have no idea myself other than to call it as a “model of the brain activity as per rising and falling volitional states conditioned over time that act as catalyst to such states and modify these”. Perhaps you can simplify it.</span></em></p><p> <span style="color: Blue"><em>Confused ji your ability to paraphrase is pretty pathetic considering the italics I have highlighted above. Give people a break they are not as stupid as you may think!</em></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><em>The 1 and 2 I flagged appear to have nothing to do with any definition of Karma I have ever read. But then again remember the following and let us lighten up,</em></span></p><p> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwN0X8YnWo" target="_blank">Animals - Don't let me be Misunderstood - YouTube</a></p><p> Regards</p><p> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ambarsaria, post: 179269, member: 14194"] Confused ji thanks for your response. Some comments I have listed here. [COLOR=Blue][I]Confused ji give me an example of the following, [/I][/COLOR] [LIST] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]“[B]nature of cause[/B]”[/I][/COLOR] [/LIST] [LIST] [*][COLOR=Blue][I]“[B][U]resultant[/U]”[/B][/I][/COLOR] [/LIST] [COLOR=Blue][I] Confused ji, explain to me if one cannot map cause-result incidents then how can “tendencies” be so observed. I believe you make a big deal out of it as though Sikhism rejects that people can have habits, tendencies, etc., gained through actions and supporting results whether they like such 100% or get used to these for much less than 100% satisfaction/attachment.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Confused ji you are the one with sustained emphasis on rising and falling instantaneous volitions in mind. Rest of the world works by observing the macro impacts as in “as you sow so shall you reap”, “controlling five deficiencies as in Kam, karodh, lobh, moh and ahankar”. You are telling all to focus on mental rising/falling instances (micro) and saying the macro like “as you sow so shall you reap” being too hard to validate. Indeed much is too hard to validate and absence such validation the evil merchants invent Karma so that they can control the masses with smoke and mirrors. Mega businesses including some of the largest religions which teach them to avoid bad karma, give potions to correct bad karma, sell shells and stones to wear to avoid bad karma, etc. Such list is so long it is a joke that person astute as yourself somehow does not see practical impact of Karmic thinking as the mega trap that it is. [/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Confused ji you raise a very good point. Fundamental in Sikhism is the interplay of elements. “You sow so shall you reap” is not a stand alone concept. It goes along with much other to be raised in wisdom acquisition. “Consonance” with rest of creation is also very fundamental. Many a Japanese getting swallowed by the Tsunami while the birds fly merrily above the waves is not Karma. It is an interplay of “you sow so shall you reap” as well as “consonance”. If one were to not built a house so close to shore, one would not be swallowed by the sea. Can we acquire perfect wisdom to be in total control of all unknowns that we are never surprised and live happily or as we please every moment of our lives? Sikhism suggests we continue to gain such wisdom while with eyes, ears and mind wide open that there will never be a gaining of all wisdom that affects all. The magic potion of Karma is just an illusion which in practicality is addressed front and centre this way as nothing more than height of extreme ignorance. It is the falsehood premise of Karmic thought that is an issue. I believe such Buddhists rightfully extend the true statement and exposition of Karma as described and postulated. So I say they are right and in their righteousness of understanding and postulation they are proving how Karma is bogus concept like a banana leaf tainted with pesticides used to serve pure food.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Confused ji if I were to take an assessment of how many Buddhists you have put down, I believe it will approach about 100%. I do believe you made statements like that in other posts but I have no problem being held to error or be corrected.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]You have clearly stated to Tejwant Singh ji that there was nothing written by Buddha. So somehow you have made a connection of purity to Buddha through a silken thread of unknown thickness. I am starting to doubt that.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Sikhs have very strongly as a community or in greater preponderance shown this aspect. Do you believe it has anything to do with the teachings of our Guru jis and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji! Your caring examples and statements I don’t care too much about. We fail sometimes and we succeed sometimes and there is no one perfect in this regard.[/I] [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Sikhism does not disapprove of Darwin’s evolution and natural selection aspects. I assume you do and believe that we just happened as in Adam-Eve and like garbage stories that forms basis of other religions you mention. Brother false foundations cannot support a house of truths so do a retrospection. Our Guru jis did and hence Sikhism.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Poor God! If you were to state that creation can be perversely equated to ego you may have a point. Creation is perhaps laughing at all of us for our stupidities and approaches as we look for the magic key (Karma) or such other magic potions. In the mean time the ice age cometh with or without the existence or non-existence of Karma. Why so! Because that is consonance and that is creation we are part of. As Luckysingh ji posted, we are just objects none more rare than any other nor can we judge so on behalf of creation.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]Sikhism supports your observation and debunks your so called “super controller” argument as it only says we are of one and in one creation.[/I][/COLOR] [I][COLOR=Blue]Confused ji you can keep calling white black till the cows come home. It does not change anything. Your unique view of Karma is not how it is understood by 99.99999+%. You change those 99.99999+% before you change the definition or common prevalent understanding. It does not work to call the whole world as wrong. If you want to call your understanding something else perhaps there will be more coincidental, cordial and synergistic dialog. I have no idea myself other than to call it as a “model of the brain activity as per rising and falling volitional states conditioned over time that act as catalyst to such states and modify these”. Perhaps you can simplify it.[/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=Blue][I]Confused ji your ability to paraphrase is pretty pathetic considering the italics I have highlighted above. Give people a break they are not as stupid as you may think![/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][I]The 1 and 2 I flagged appear to have nothing to do with any definition of Karma I have ever read. But then again remember the following and let us lighten up,[/I][/COLOR] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwN0X8YnWo"]Animals - Don't let me be Misunderstood - YouTube[/url] Regards <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top