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Hard Talk
Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 179004" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Tejwant ji,</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No I don't have a shrink. But this is not because I don’t have any flaws, only I don't think a shrink can help me.</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How am I contradicting myself? There is tremendous potential for all kinds of evil, so I don't think myself as a good person at all. But then I’ve also heard and understood to some extent the Buddha's teachings, and it is because of this that I recognize wrong view expressed.</p><p> </p><p>I am what I am due to accumulations (the tendencies accumulated in the past); this is not karma result. </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>One of the accumulated tendencies is conceit (ego); I don't expect mine to diminish significantly anytime soon, read aeons upon aeons. </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Correct me if I'm wrong, karam means action? If so, know that one meaning of karma is also action.</p><p>Anyway, even if the meaning is completely different, it is not the word karam that I have in mind, but the fact that Guru Nanak taught against greed, anger, pride and other evils and encouraged being content, speaking the truth, compassion and so on. This is to distinguish good karma from bad karma and if karam means something else, it makes no difference to me</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am not here to perturb, after all that would be ill-will which is bad karma. I am here for those who are not perturbed or if they do occasionally are, get something positive out of what I write, even when I go against the rules of this list about staying on-topic. Hooligan is your perception of me, one that is probably painted by a mind which is perturbed.</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Let's do this. Start a discussion on karam and karma in a new thread. I remember we did similarly before but at that time, you did not engage me and it was you who suggested that we do. Would you do so now? </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know what it is to be Mr. Know it All. What I can say is that to some degree, I can distinguish right from wrong view and correspondingly, right and wrong thinking. But this is only at the kindergarten level. But back to your comment.</p><p></p><p>If you will look at the list of bad and good karma which I cited, you will see that walking about naked vs. covering oneself is not included anywhere. And if you will refer to my last message to Ambarsaria ji, you will see that I suggested that moral good and bad are reference to corresponding states of mind with particular characteristics and that because people are ignorant of this, different people's ideas about morality should not be cause for confusion such that one may then be led to conclude that in fact morality is relative. We can discuss this further also, in the new thread. </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, was I not talking in terms of what goes on in general here? I wonder if you too have ADD, because this happens to me quite often, namely that I skip over words and misunderstand the message.</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do often go off-topic, and I won't even know that I'm doing it or figure out what the main topic is. But as much as I can, I try in every comment that I make, to say something useful, otherwise I have no reason to be here. So again, smoke and mirrors is just your own perception. But back to your comment.</p><p></p><p>Refer again to my list of 10 unwholesome and the 10 wholesome courses of action. And understand that good are states of mind rooted in two or more of the three wholesome roots of wisdom, non-attachment and non-aversion. This includes for example, generosity, morality, kindness, compassion, detachment, wisdom, faith, mindfulness etc. Bad are states rooted in one or two of the three unwholesome roots of ignorance, attachment and aversion. The examples are sensuous attachment, miserliness, jealousy, ill-will, deceit, conceit, shamelessness, doubt, wrong understanding and so on. </p><p></p><p>Is this enough, and if it is not logical, can you point out to me why so that I may perhaps try to do better?</p><p> </p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>When discussing with other people about such matters, I believe that there should be no attempt to stay on one particular topic. It is about life and life is a series of states of mind one after another which is unpredictable and should be understood in the moment. So if some important question arises for anyone, let him ask it and let someone answer, even if it is going off-topic. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, what I expressed above is about Karma, no. 10 in the first list vs. no. 10 in the second.</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Like I said, lets discuss this in a new thread and we will then see who is ignorant and who is not.</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Because no state of mind is subject to the control of will, any impression of being able to control is only an illusion. Mental states have already risen and fallen away by the time they are known and thought about and the next moment can't be predicted. Also the tendencies to evil particularly that of ignorance, have been accumulated infinitely more than good, therefore the probability of the former arising is much greater. </p><p></p><p>Please point out to me where I have not been honest?</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, my ego gets fed quite often. </p><p>But let's discuss about the Truth and see if in fact my comments are falsehoods or not. </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, don't worry about this; my wife is faithful to Sikhi and I seldom discuss such things with my children. I'd rather that they approach me with questions and this doesn't happen often. My wife on the other hand, tries hard to feed them with Sikh stories and make them read the scriptures. </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p> </p><p>You should know that the Krishnamurti books were kept aside and only once or twice I reminded my son about it and he read only one page once. And that this last bit about better read math, this I was only expressing what went through my own mind. I did not say it to him. What you might conclude from what I wrote is simply that I'd not encourage my son to read Krishnamurti anymore and that he should spend more time on his school studies. </p><p></p><p>And know this also, that just as I think in relation to people in general, I consider the probability of my children understanding the Buddha’s teachings to be quite low.</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Believe it or not, my children often hear me saying that they should be careful about certain things so that they *do not grow up to be like me*! I would never tell then to emulate me or for the matter anyone else. Besides, what I always remind people is that the goal in life is to understand who you are, and that a vagrant who understands himself is successful, and a Nobel prize winner who does not understand himself is a failure. </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean when you accuse me of proselytizing it is OK, and when I respond with an explanation it becomes off-topic babble?</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Instead of becoming clear, it has just got more unclear. Can you try again? </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right View is only taught by a Buddha. Everyone else, when it comes to the matter of Truth and reality, are wrong. Does this answer your question?</p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p>How am I killing all the time? </p><p></p><p>===</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You stated the following:</p><p></p><p>Quote: </p><p>“I am sure you are very well aware that proselytization is forbidden in Sikhi because our journey is our own as individuals. Be the best human you can be no matter what/who you believe in, sayeth the Guru Granth.”</p><p></p><p>What I got from this was the suggestion that it does not matter what the beliefs of the person is, Sikhs do not try to preach to them. So when you then wrote:</p><p></p><p>Quote:</p><p>“I will discuss the other falsehoods in your lists after your response.”</p><p></p><p>It sounded like you were telling me that the particular Buddhist teachings are false and that you would correct me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 179004, member: 586"] Tejwant ji, No I don't have a shrink. But this is not because I don’t have any flaws, only I don't think a shrink can help me. === How am I contradicting myself? There is tremendous potential for all kinds of evil, so I don't think myself as a good person at all. But then I’ve also heard and understood to some extent the Buddha's teachings, and it is because of this that I recognize wrong view expressed. I am what I am due to accumulations (the tendencies accumulated in the past); this is not karma result. === One of the accumulated tendencies is conceit (ego); I don't expect mine to diminish significantly anytime soon, read aeons upon aeons. === Correct me if I'm wrong, karam means action? If so, know that one meaning of karma is also action. Anyway, even if the meaning is completely different, it is not the word karam that I have in mind, but the fact that Guru Nanak taught against greed, anger, pride and other evils and encouraged being content, speaking the truth, compassion and so on. This is to distinguish good karma from bad karma and if karam means something else, it makes no difference to me === I am not here to perturb, after all that would be ill-will which is bad karma. I am here for those who are not perturbed or if they do occasionally are, get something positive out of what I write, even when I go against the rules of this list about staying on-topic. Hooligan is your perception of me, one that is probably painted by a mind which is perturbed. === Let's do this. Start a discussion on karam and karma in a new thread. I remember we did similarly before but at that time, you did not engage me and it was you who suggested that we do. Would you do so now? === I don't know what it is to be Mr. Know it All. What I can say is that to some degree, I can distinguish right from wrong view and correspondingly, right and wrong thinking. But this is only at the kindergarten level. But back to your comment. If you will look at the list of bad and good karma which I cited, you will see that walking about naked vs. covering oneself is not included anywhere. And if you will refer to my last message to Ambarsaria ji, you will see that I suggested that moral good and bad are reference to corresponding states of mind with particular characteristics and that because people are ignorant of this, different people's ideas about morality should not be cause for confusion such that one may then be led to conclude that in fact morality is relative. We can discuss this further also, in the new thread. === Well, was I not talking in terms of what goes on in general here? I wonder if you too have ADD, because this happens to me quite often, namely that I skip over words and misunderstand the message. === I do often go off-topic, and I won't even know that I'm doing it or figure out what the main topic is. But as much as I can, I try in every comment that I make, to say something useful, otherwise I have no reason to be here. So again, smoke and mirrors is just your own perception. But back to your comment. Refer again to my list of 10 unwholesome and the 10 wholesome courses of action. And understand that good are states of mind rooted in two or more of the three wholesome roots of wisdom, non-attachment and non-aversion. This includes for example, generosity, morality, kindness, compassion, detachment, wisdom, faith, mindfulness etc. Bad are states rooted in one or two of the three unwholesome roots of ignorance, attachment and aversion. The examples are sensuous attachment, miserliness, jealousy, ill-will, deceit, conceit, shamelessness, doubt, wrong understanding and so on. Is this enough, and if it is not logical, can you point out to me why so that I may perhaps try to do better? === When discussing with other people about such matters, I believe that there should be no attempt to stay on one particular topic. It is about life and life is a series of states of mind one after another which is unpredictable and should be understood in the moment. So if some important question arises for anyone, let him ask it and let someone answer, even if it is going off-topic. Anyway, what I expressed above is about Karma, no. 10 in the first list vs. no. 10 in the second. === Like I said, lets discuss this in a new thread and we will then see who is ignorant and who is not. === Because no state of mind is subject to the control of will, any impression of being able to control is only an illusion. Mental states have already risen and fallen away by the time they are known and thought about and the next moment can't be predicted. Also the tendencies to evil particularly that of ignorance, have been accumulated infinitely more than good, therefore the probability of the former arising is much greater. Please point out to me where I have not been honest? === Yeah, my ego gets fed quite often. But let's discuss about the Truth and see if in fact my comments are falsehoods or not. === Ah, don't worry about this; my wife is faithful to Sikhi and I seldom discuss such things with my children. I'd rather that they approach me with questions and this doesn't happen often. My wife on the other hand, tries hard to feed them with Sikh stories and make them read the scriptures. === You should know that the Krishnamurti books were kept aside and only once or twice I reminded my son about it and he read only one page once. And that this last bit about better read math, this I was only expressing what went through my own mind. I did not say it to him. What you might conclude from what I wrote is simply that I'd not encourage my son to read Krishnamurti anymore and that he should spend more time on his school studies. And know this also, that just as I think in relation to people in general, I consider the probability of my children understanding the Buddha’s teachings to be quite low. === Believe it or not, my children often hear me saying that they should be careful about certain things so that they *do not grow up to be like me*! I would never tell then to emulate me or for the matter anyone else. Besides, what I always remind people is that the goal in life is to understand who you are, and that a vagrant who understands himself is successful, and a Nobel prize winner who does not understand himself is a failure. === You mean when you accuse me of proselytizing it is OK, and when I respond with an explanation it becomes off-topic babble? === Instead of becoming clear, it has just got more unclear. Can you try again? === Right View is only taught by a Buddha. Everyone else, when it comes to the matter of Truth and reality, are wrong. Does this answer your question? === How am I killing all the time? === You stated the following: Quote: “I am sure you are very well aware that proselytization is forbidden in Sikhi because our journey is our own as individuals. Be the best human you can be no matter what/who you believe in, sayeth the Guru Granth.” What I got from this was the suggestion that it does not matter what the beliefs of the person is, Sikhs do not try to preach to them. So when you then wrote: Quote: “I will discuss the other falsehoods in your lists after your response.” It sounded like you were telling me that the particular Buddhist teachings are false and that you would correct me. [/QUOTE]
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Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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