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Hard Talk
Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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<blockquote data-quote="Luckysingh" data-source="post: 178882" data-attributes="member: 16886"><p>Ambarsaria ji, I understand the above as I was more focused on some other points in the aboutsikhs.com text that I'm sure you will agree with.</p><p> </p><p>Namely-</p><p> </p><p>and then</p><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I would point out again that the problem is that many of us find it difficult to see karma as an entity on it's own. It gets associated with reincarnation, caste and free will too easily.</p><p>Whereas, reincarnation gets venned with transmigration, karma and caste to top it all.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>As far as I see it, Guru Nanak ji was trying to tell us exactly the same thing. He was trying to point that karma is not from previous lives and that it is ALL initiated with his grace.</p><p><em>''Karmi aveh kaprah, nadri mukh duar'' is often translated that 'human birth or life is attained after good karma by his grace''</em></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: Sienna">An entire shabad should be quoted, with Ang number..</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><em> Now, I can't exactly agree with this translation since it implies that good deeds by all forms of life, then you get human birth!!</em></p><p><em>Whereas throughout gurbani it emphasizes how difficult it is to be given the grace for this one life and how we should make the most of it for what it is. ie.. not be doing good deeds just for the sake of next birth!</em></p><p> </p><p>Maybe the 'karam- is referring to good actions, kindness ..etc.. as in the persian translation. Maybe the 'kapra' is not talking about human body vessel, but actual clothes or essentials for our body survival !!</p><p> </p><p>I don't want to go off topic with reincarnation here, but it will help explain what I mean.</p><p> </p><p>Now, we often hear about the classic 84 lak joon or 8400,00 births..etc...</p><p>A very easy and common thing for sikhs to interpret is that '' I'm not a jatt, khatri or rajput now, because I worked my way up the caste ladder in previous births!!</p><p>- BUT, instead we often see the interpretation that I have gone through 84 lakh life cycles and worked my way up the species to human !!</p><p> </p><p>Fair enough- at least we rejecting the caste here according to Guru Nanakji.</p><p><em>BUT- we are also saying that I may have been an ant in previous form. </em></p><p><em>so we have 2 options-</em></p><p> </p><p><em>1) human birth after being a BAD ant- birth without limbs/eyes/ears...etc...</em></p><p><em>2) human birth after being a GOOD samaritan ant !</em></p><p> </p><p>If we think about it, how much karam will an ant really accumulate that dictate it's future as a human.</p><p> I mean is the 'bad' ant really going to be a mass murderer that leads the fellow ants into a pool of poison by tricking them ??</p><p> </p><p><strong>OR </strong>is the ant going to be so good, that it applies first aid and carries all fellow disabled ants across the little pond to the feast of disowned choc bar dumped by a human.???</p><p> </p><p><strong>OR</strong> will it make fellow ants protective metal shields so that they don't get stepped on ???</p><p> </p><p><strong>REALLY, HOW MUCH KARMA CAN AN ANT ACCUMULATE ??</strong></p><p> </p><p><strong>SO- WHY THE MENTION OF 84 LAKH ??</strong></p><p>- I think because Guruji is telling us that the karma does not decide your caste or why you are born blind.</p><p> He tells us that we are ALL human and that there are 84 lakh other species alive and known to mankind, that each have a life to live.</p><p> </p><p>The 84 lakh is a confirmation to us that says -''Look, these other species don't have the mind or the free-will to action, love, connect, meditate, teach, learn about the 'waheguru' that us humans do!!! S why are wasting ourselves by not using this free-will for the right thing ???</p><p> </p><p>It's a little like when someone complains about not having enough money for extra snacks in their weekly shopping,-and you tell them that ''look, there are x amount of billion that won't have a meal tomorrow, or they don't even know if they will get any food, and your worried about extra snacks ??''</p><p> </p><p>In a similar waythe 84 lakh is a confirmation of all those species that don't have a caste system and how the hell do they work themselves up the animal kingdom or whatever ??</p><p>Come on, do we really think that happens, when we are quite an educated few generations ???</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I find it clear and apparent that Guru Nanak ji' is saying that we shouldn't be worrying about karma, you will reap as you sow. </p><p>Your actions will give you the reactions...etc..</p><p>To add, he is saying that if you feel or believe that there is a karma attached to yourself or hanging over from birth, then it is ALL his doing and he pre-ordains it. Because he is the creator and destroyer of karma.</p><p>And he can initiate it good or bad or destroy and create it again !</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>My personal conclusion is that we create such an action/reaction karma that just goes with reaping what we sow.</p><p> We do bad, then eventally it comes back and slaps us, and vice versa.</p><p>So, this karma is very much a human way of life, from what I gather- more like 'what goes around, comes around''</p><p> </p><p><strong>BUT- the BIG BUT is that</strong>, if we <strong>submit to his will</strong>, if we jap,meditate,contemplate,kirat,vand and naam..etc.. on the Waheguru, then our bad karma can be wiped by his nadar or grace.</p><p>Therefore, a Gurmukh does NOT have the weight of karma hanging on him.</p><p> </p><p>Think about it-</p><p>-If kauda raksh, who had obviously created bad karams all his life.</p><p> But he never suffered, as all his bad never got the worst of him.</p><p>However, Instead he fell at the feet of the Lord and submitted his will and ALL himself to Waheguru !</p><p>Thus, ALL his bad karmas were immediately wiped OFF the slate !!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Instead of worrying about the existence of karma and it's governing laws, we should pay attention to 'submitting ALL to the will of God'</p><p> </p><p>That is the bigger message about 'Karma' that can be seen in any reference of gurbani, even if some get heavily mistranslated !</p><p> </p><p>But the 'core' message of becoming a gurmukh and being at the lotus feet of the Lord makes one above the realms of any such karma, is the True message that can't get mistranslated !!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Luckysingh, post: 178882, member: 16886"] Ambarsaria ji, I understand the above as I was more focused on some other points in the aboutsikhs.com text that I'm sure you will agree with. Namely- and then I would point out again that the problem is that many of us find it difficult to see karma as an entity on it's own. It gets associated with reincarnation, caste and free will too easily. Whereas, reincarnation gets venned with transmigration, karma and caste to top it all. As far as I see it, Guru Nanak ji was trying to tell us exactly the same thing. He was trying to point that karma is not from previous lives and that it is ALL initiated with his grace. [I]''Karmi aveh kaprah, nadri mukh duar'' is often translated that 'human birth or life is attained after good karma by his grace''[/I] [B][COLOR="Sienna"]An entire shabad should be quoted, with Ang number..[/COLOR][/B] [I] Now, I can't exactly agree with this translation since it implies that good deeds by all forms of life, then you get human birth!![/I] [I]Whereas throughout gurbani it emphasizes how difficult it is to be given the grace for this one life and how we should make the most of it for what it is. ie.. not be doing good deeds just for the sake of next birth![/I] Maybe the 'karam- is referring to good actions, kindness ..etc.. as in the persian translation. Maybe the 'kapra' is not talking about human body vessel, but actual clothes or essentials for our body survival !! I don't want to go off topic with reincarnation here, but it will help explain what I mean. Now, we often hear about the classic 84 lak joon or 8400,00 births..etc... A very easy and common thing for sikhs to interpret is that '' I'm not a jatt, khatri or rajput now, because I worked my way up the caste ladder in previous births!! - BUT, instead we often see the interpretation that I have gone through 84 lakh life cycles and worked my way up the species to human !! Fair enough- at least we rejecting the caste here according to Guru Nanakji. [I]BUT- we are also saying that I may have been an ant in previous form. [/I] [I]so we have 2 options-[/I] [I]1) human birth after being a BAD ant- birth without limbs/eyes/ears...etc...[/I] [I]2) human birth after being a GOOD samaritan ant ![/I] If we think about it, how much karam will an ant really accumulate that dictate it's future as a human. I mean is the 'bad' ant really going to be a mass murderer that leads the fellow ants into a pool of poison by tricking them ?? [B]OR [/B]is the ant going to be so good, that it applies first aid and carries all fellow disabled ants across the little pond to the feast of disowned choc bar dumped by a human.??? [B]OR[/B] will it make fellow ants protective metal shields so that they don't get stepped on ??? [B]REALLY, HOW MUCH KARMA CAN AN ANT ACCUMULATE ??[/B] [B]SO- WHY THE MENTION OF 84 LAKH ??[/B] - I think because Guruji is telling us that the karma does not decide your caste or why you are born blind. He tells us that we are ALL human and that there are 84 lakh other species alive and known to mankind, that each have a life to live. The 84 lakh is a confirmation to us that says -''Look, these other species don't have the mind or the free-will to action, love, connect, meditate, teach, learn about the 'waheguru' that us humans do!!! S why are wasting ourselves by not using this free-will for the right thing ??? It's a little like when someone complains about not having enough money for extra snacks in their weekly shopping,-and you tell them that ''look, there are x amount of billion that won't have a meal tomorrow, or they don't even know if they will get any food, and your worried about extra snacks ??'' In a similar waythe 84 lakh is a confirmation of all those species that don't have a caste system and how the hell do they work themselves up the animal kingdom or whatever ?? Come on, do we really think that happens, when we are quite an educated few generations ??? I find it clear and apparent that Guru Nanak ji' is saying that we shouldn't be worrying about karma, you will reap as you sow. Your actions will give you the reactions...etc.. To add, he is saying that if you feel or believe that there is a karma attached to yourself or hanging over from birth, then it is ALL his doing and he pre-ordains it. Because he is the creator and destroyer of karma. And he can initiate it good or bad or destroy and create it again ! My personal conclusion is that we create such an action/reaction karma that just goes with reaping what we sow. We do bad, then eventally it comes back and slaps us, and vice versa. So, this karma is very much a human way of life, from what I gather- more like 'what goes around, comes around'' [B]BUT- the BIG BUT is that[/B], if we [B]submit to his will[/B], if we jap,meditate,contemplate,kirat,vand and naam..etc.. on the Waheguru, then our bad karma can be wiped by his nadar or grace. Therefore, a Gurmukh does NOT have the weight of karma hanging on him. Think about it- -If kauda raksh, who had obviously created bad karams all his life. But he never suffered, as all his bad never got the worst of him. However, Instead he fell at the feet of the Lord and submitted his will and ALL himself to Waheguru ! Thus, ALL his bad karmas were immediately wiped OFF the slate !! Instead of worrying about the existence of karma and it's governing laws, we should pay attention to 'submitting ALL to the will of God' That is the bigger message about 'Karma' that can be seen in any reference of gurbani, even if some get heavily mistranslated ! But the 'core' message of becoming a gurmukh and being at the lotus feet of the Lord makes one above the realms of any such karma, is the True message that can't get mistranslated !! [/QUOTE]
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Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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