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Hard Talk
Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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<blockquote data-quote="Luckysingh" data-source="post: 178734" data-attributes="member: 16886"><p>I really like that explanation Chazji !</p><p>I not only completely agree, but I believe in something very similar that helps explain karma, free-will and hukam altogether!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Karma is simply cause/effect, action/reaction, input/output, reap/sow...etc..</p><p>It is all about what I do here and now in this life. </p><p>If I commit crimes and encounter extreme suffering, then it is not about my past life, past sins or my parents or ancestors past or sins, it is ALL because of the effects of the laws of karma here and now.</p><p> </p><p>Similar to what you mention, I do think that we create 'positive' or 'negative' hangings over each individual encounter we have with someone.</p><p>This can be something simple as refusing to make a cup of tea, or the bed for your wife to refusing to help a known thief or fraud.</p><p>-Each one of those will create a 'negative' hanging to some degree that was instigated by yourself.</p><p>You probably wonder, why should I help a thief or fraud ? </p><p>Well, the question is there, but so is the choice.</p><p> If you help them with even some 10 bucks they ask from you, then a 'positive' is created. If you refuse in their personal time of need, then a 'negative' will still be created, even if you feel you are doing society a favour!</p><p> </p><p>REMEMBER- everyone has a point in their life and a time of need that has nothing to do with them being a samaritan or a thief.</p><p>This is why I give the utmost respect to fire-fighters or other emergency savers that risk their own lives directly, because they will save you for being a human. You may be a thief,fraud, rapist,samaritan or priest, BUT they will still risk their own life in trying to save yours!</p><p> </p><p>(but, according to hindu and rejected karma, all firefighters would be mukht or kings in their next lives!!)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I think that every encounter that I have in a day with every single being, leaves either a <em>positive or negative</em> hanging on my behalf.</p><p>This is what the karma of now is.</p><p>It is also the <em>free-will</em> that God gives us.</p><p>Because, the <em>Hukam</em> dictates the meeting of two individuals, but the <em>free-will</em> is what decides wether they leave a positive or negative hanging over each other.</p><p> </p><p>In your example above with the swearing... Waheguru gives you free will so that you can either swear back or cancel all negatives by saying 'God bless you'. Because I honestly don't think that waheguru's hukam dictates that you say f***you!!!</p><p> </p><p>I won't go off topic into free-will,hukam and karma here, but I think you probably get my idea.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I think the best way is to explain with a few examples-</p><p>Eg.... We have all encountered this example at some point in our family lives-</p><p>It's when your cousin or parent informs you not to speak or acknowledge another relative because they have upset so and so...</p><p>So, we are instructed to not stand by, acknowledge or speak to some cousin who you have always got on with.</p><p>-What everyone does, is up to them and varies according to circumstances, but what should we really do ?</p><p> </p><p>This is where simple maths comes in !!!!</p><p>Although, it can get complicated!! </p><p>You have to simply see what action outweighs all the negatives. So a positive move towards your uncle so and so gives a<em> positive</em> that you <em>'directly</em>' control and a<em> negative</em> from your mother that is <em>indirectly</em> controlled.</p><p> <em>You could say the direct positive = +2 and the indirect negative = -1,</em></p><p><em> Therfore, the result is an overall +1. </em></p><p><em>(direct=2 and indirect =1)</em></p><p> </p><p>Compare this to if you do as your mother says ??</p><p>Then you create a direct negative with between you and uncle so and so which is a -2, but you maintain an indirect positve between you and mother which is a +1, </p><p> ..... the overall effect is a -1.</p><p> </p><p>I can see, that the best approach is to approach someone and create a postive instead of standing back and letting a negative erupt.</p><p> </p><p><u>THE LESSON IS- If a so called upsetting commercial move can somehow result in a <em>'direct positive'</em>, then you should always proceed in this manner.</u></p><p> </p><p>Sounds to easy to say, but in reality it gets complicated.</p><p>But from my experience, I cannot ever find a fault in the result using this personal system. </p><p>However, it can get quite complicated at times when trying to involve lots of different encounters and reactions all in one.</p><p> </p><p>Eg.2)</p><p>Another little example is how these effects can hang over us and how waheguru ji makes it possible by giving us chances to use our free will to abolish them !</p><p> </p><p>My cousin who is a famous alcoholic and gambler, comes begging to me for a few hundred bucks to help fund his kids college fees.</p><p>Knowing that the chances of money ending up in the liquor store or casino/betting kiosk are quite high, - I kindly refuse and directly create a 'negative' effect.</p><p>There is no point of getting into the morals of what one really should or should not do, but the point is that a 'negative' hangs like a bubble in a comic over the two of you and you contributed to it directly by refusing.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I find that in these scenarios the hukam and wahguru always jump in later on to help and counteract.</p><p> They dont wipe it off the slate, but give us an opportunity to wipe it off.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>For example....later on after a few weeks.............</p><p> His wife approaches me feeling really embarrased and telling me that cousin has squandered all the savings for the college fund.!</p><p>Now, I can wipe off that negative by giving a the few hundred and creating a different direct positive with his wife and an indirect postive with him when he finds out.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>The hukam of wahgeuru may also place us in a completely different scenario such as my kid comes up and says that a best friend's parents have lost their jobs and they will have to leave the area unless they don't have a couple of thousand by the month!!</p><p>This will mean that my child will lose their best friend and have this weight on their conscious that the friends family could have been helped.!!</p><p> </p><p>REACTION- should be to counteract the previous negative I had hanging over me by contributing much more maybe even triple to the needy in this case.</p><p> </p><p>(I have had both scenarios happen to me in the past and I'm sure most of you have had something similar)</p><p>Everytime, something occurs or mostly when we think '' <strong>NOT AGAIN!!!</strong>''</p><p>or <strong>''Why does this always happen with me</strong>??' </p><p>or '' <strong>''Why am I always the one getting asked??''</strong></p><p><strong>Haven't we all said this to ourselves at some point ?????</strong></p><p> </p><p>Next time we question the above, we should stand back and think !!</p><p>It is mostly because waheguru ji is giving us the opportunity to fix or counteract a negativity that we created.</p><p>We should consider ourselve lucky that we get this chance, because I'm sure that we all create so many <em>indirect negativities </em>without ever realising.</p><p> </p><p>This is what the appey beej appey hi kaho, or reap and sowing actually means to me.</p><p>Like I said, I think that we have so many indirect negativies hanging over us. Because it is not in our hands if some one is upset or angry because of some action or belief of ours.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>-This is what I believe the Guru's gave us instructions to counteract and beat.</p><p>Being a gurmukh or going that way by lving and breathing in a gurmat lifestyle, we can abolish all the unintentional and indirect negativities that hang over us.</p><p>They are all created by human actions, they don't come with us at birth and they don't get passed down family generations.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p><strong>The less we have, then the closer we become to getting disassociated with wordly entanglements and becoming a gurmukh and immersed in the supreme Truth!</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Luckysingh, post: 178734, member: 16886"] I really like that explanation Chazji ! I not only completely agree, but I believe in something very similar that helps explain karma, free-will and hukam altogether! Karma is simply cause/effect, action/reaction, input/output, reap/sow...etc.. It is all about what I do here and now in this life. If I commit crimes and encounter extreme suffering, then it is not about my past life, past sins or my parents or ancestors past or sins, it is ALL because of the effects of the laws of karma here and now. Similar to what you mention, I do think that we create 'positive' or 'negative' hangings over each individual encounter we have with someone. This can be something simple as refusing to make a cup of tea, or the bed for your wife to refusing to help a known thief or fraud. -Each one of those will create a 'negative' hanging to some degree that was instigated by yourself. You probably wonder, why should I help a thief or fraud ? Well, the question is there, but so is the choice. If you help them with even some 10 bucks they ask from you, then a 'positive' is created. If you refuse in their personal time of need, then a 'negative' will still be created, even if you feel you are doing society a favour! REMEMBER- everyone has a point in their life and a time of need that has nothing to do with them being a samaritan or a thief. This is why I give the utmost respect to fire-fighters or other emergency savers that risk their own lives directly, because they will save you for being a human. You may be a thief,fraud, rapist,samaritan or priest, BUT they will still risk their own life in trying to save yours! (but, according to hindu and rejected karma, all firefighters would be mukht or kings in their next lives!!) I think that every encounter that I have in a day with every single being, leaves either a [I]positive or negative[/I] hanging on my behalf. This is what the karma of now is. It is also the [I]free-will[/I] that God gives us. Because, the [I]Hukam[/I] dictates the meeting of two individuals, but the [I]free-will[/I] is what decides wether they leave a positive or negative hanging over each other. In your example above with the swearing... Waheguru gives you free will so that you can either swear back or cancel all negatives by saying 'God bless you'. Because I honestly don't think that waheguru's hukam dictates that you say f***you!!! I won't go off topic into free-will,hukam and karma here, but I think you probably get my idea. I think the best way is to explain with a few examples- Eg.... We have all encountered this example at some point in our family lives- It's when your cousin or parent informs you not to speak or acknowledge another relative because they have upset so and so... So, we are instructed to not stand by, acknowledge or speak to some cousin who you have always got on with. -What everyone does, is up to them and varies according to circumstances, but what should we really do ? This is where simple maths comes in !!!! Although, it can get complicated!! You have to simply see what action outweighs all the negatives. So a positive move towards your uncle so and so gives a[I] positive[/I] that you [I]'directly[/I]' control and a[I] negative[/I] from your mother that is [I]indirectly[/I] controlled. [I]You could say the direct positive = +2 and the indirect negative = -1,[/I] [I] Therfore, the result is an overall +1. [/I] [I](direct=2 and indirect =1)[/I] [I][/I] Compare this to if you do as your mother says ?? Then you create a direct negative with between you and uncle so and so which is a -2, but you maintain an indirect positve between you and mother which is a +1, ..... the overall effect is a -1. I can see, that the best approach is to approach someone and create a postive instead of standing back and letting a negative erupt. [U]THE LESSON IS- If a so called upsetting commercial move can somehow result in a [I]'direct positive'[/I], then you should always proceed in this manner.[/U] Sounds to easy to say, but in reality it gets complicated. But from my experience, I cannot ever find a fault in the result using this personal system. However, it can get quite complicated at times when trying to involve lots of different encounters and reactions all in one. Eg.2) Another little example is how these effects can hang over us and how waheguru ji makes it possible by giving us chances to use our free will to abolish them ! My cousin who is a famous alcoholic and gambler, comes begging to me for a few hundred bucks to help fund his kids college fees. Knowing that the chances of money ending up in the liquor store or casino/betting kiosk are quite high, - I kindly refuse and directly create a 'negative' effect. There is no point of getting into the morals of what one really should or should not do, but the point is that a 'negative' hangs like a bubble in a comic over the two of you and you contributed to it directly by refusing. I find that in these scenarios the hukam and wahguru always jump in later on to help and counteract. They dont wipe it off the slate, but give us an opportunity to wipe it off. For example....later on after a few weeks............. His wife approaches me feeling really embarrased and telling me that cousin has squandered all the savings for the college fund.! Now, I can wipe off that negative by giving a the few hundred and creating a different direct positive with his wife and an indirect postive with him when he finds out. The hukam of wahgeuru may also place us in a completely different scenario such as my kid comes up and says that a best friend's parents have lost their jobs and they will have to leave the area unless they don't have a couple of thousand by the month!! This will mean that my child will lose their best friend and have this weight on their conscious that the friends family could have been helped.!! REACTION- should be to counteract the previous negative I had hanging over me by contributing much more maybe even triple to the needy in this case. (I have had both scenarios happen to me in the past and I'm sure most of you have had something similar) Everytime, something occurs or mostly when we think '' [B]NOT AGAIN!!![/B]'' or [B]''Why does this always happen with me[/B]??' or '' [B]''Why am I always the one getting asked??''[/B] [B]Haven't we all said this to ourselves at some point ?????[/B] Next time we question the above, we should stand back and think !! It is mostly because waheguru ji is giving us the opportunity to fix or counteract a negativity that we created. We should consider ourselve lucky that we get this chance, because I'm sure that we all create so many [I]indirect negativities [/I]without ever realising. This is what the appey beej appey hi kaho, or reap and sowing actually means to me. Like I said, I think that we have so many indirect negativies hanging over us. Because it is not in our hands if some one is upset or angry because of some action or belief of ours. -This is what I believe the Guru's gave us instructions to counteract and beat. Being a gurmukh or going that way by lving and breathing in a gurmat lifestyle, we can abolish all the unintentional and indirect negativities that hang over us. They are all created by human actions, they don't come with us at birth and they don't get passed down family generations. [B]The less we have, then the closer we become to getting disassociated with wordly entanglements and becoming a gurmukh and immersed in the supreme Truth![/B] [/QUOTE]
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Why Is The Law Of Karma Rejected?
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