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Solhe (1020-1033)
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Why Are We Not Allowed To Cut Hair When It's Ok To Cut Nails, Since Both Are Created By God?
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 133389" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Aman ji,</p><p></p><p>Quote:</p><p>>>It is really strange when people keep on arguing that there is no mention in Gurbani about cutting or not cutting your hair. In Japji Sahib, it is clearly stated to live our life in accordance to the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) or what we call Bhana in Punjabi. This statement encompasses every trivial argument we make like justifying of Cutting of Hair at any part of the body.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Kesh or Bodily Hair grow as per the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. Cutting edges of hair or plucking or shaving eyebrows or shaving hair from any part of your body is a clear defiance of the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. <<</p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps Laws of Nature encompasses more than what you think and the intended meaning and implications is therefore quite different from how you understand it?</p><p>Please consider the following, the comments are my own which admittedly, is a topic I don’t usually think about:</p><p></p><p>The Five Cosmic Orders.</p><p></p><p>1. Caloric Order.</p><p>2. Germinal Order.</p><p>3. Moral Order or Karma.</p><p>4. Psychical Order.</p><p>5. Natural phenomena sequence. </p><p></p><p>1. Caloric Order is that which is responsible for the maintenance and disintegration of the material universe. It is what is behind the object of study of the sciences including such things as the origin of the star systems and galaxies and their eventual disintegration. It is the cause for the different seasons and why what germinates where and when. That which people call evolution is in reality a result of this very phenomenon when looked from a particular perspective. Indeed our physical body, much of what it is composed of, is governed by this particular order of things.</p><p></p><p>2. Germinal Order is about what we identify as the plant kingdom and is what dictates such things as seeds sprout and becomes a tree with its roots, leaves and branches and which then bear fruits. It is that which dictates such things as an apple seed can’t result in a coconut tree.</p><p></p><p>3. Moral Order or Karma is that by which actions through body, speech and mind occur and these whether they are good or evil. And so too the results which comes from these actions, such as what good and bad experiences through the five senses occur and where and what one is born as and for how long, ugly or beautiful, in a hostile environment or in a place where the Truth is proclaimed, and so on. </p><p></p><p>Good actions cannot give rise to bad results and bad actions cannot result in good. Indeed this is the reason that people are invariably faced with moral issues even though some do not go far enough as to then believe in the law of cause and effect which is Karma, for e.g. the Christians. </p><p></p><p>4. Psychical Order is reflected in such things as the ‘thinking process’ always following the experience through the five senses whereby ‘sense’ is made out of those experiences. For example, sound when heard is immediately followed by thinking about what that sound is, or reading of words happening here following the experience of these black and white colours on the computer screen. And not only this, this Order is also the cause for the reactions with good and evil tendencies as per the individual and why different people think variously and have different interests and abilities. </p><p></p><p>5. Natural phenomena sequence covers all the above and more. </p><p>It is due to this that the earth element is distinct from the fire element and one can’t change to the other. Similarly, feeling is not perception, kindness is not cruelty and ignorance is not wisdom and each of these has its own individual characteristic, function, manifestation and proximate cause. And this is the law which dictates that all of these things are conditioned and impermanent and insubstantial. </p><p></p><p>The natural phenomena sequence is why when there is ignorance, formations or karma arises, and from this rebirth which is the basis for more experience through the five senses resulting in feeling and the craving for this and hence clinging to becoming and all that comes from having been born, namely old age, sickness and death, continually over and over again. And likewise it is that which is behind what causes such phenomena to cease, namely with full enlightenment where no condition for rebirth exists.</p><p></p><p>In short it is the cause for the general rule, “When that exists, this comes to be. From the arising of that, this arises. When that does not exist, this does not come to be. When that ceases, then this ceases.”</p><p></p><p>So Aman ji, it would seem to me that the meaning intended by Hukum must primarily be based upon the Moral Order, if not also the last one, namely Natural Phenomena Sequence. All religions after all, emphasize morality and surely Sikhism does this from page one to the last page. Hair and nails are governed by the Caloric Order and would unlikely be a concern to anyone who wishes to grow in goodness and develop wisdom. </p><p>====</p><p></p><p>Quote:</p><p>>>The Hukum by the tenth Master to Keep Kesh is simply a reminder to follow this important Hukum of accepting Bhana/The Laws of Nature.<<</p><p></p><p>Someone suggested reason for the rule for keeping hair as being necessitated due to the social and political situation at the time. Why not go along with this and allow each individual to judge his own situation as to whether he would like to maintain or cut his hair? </p><p>====</p><p></p><p>Quote:</p><p>>>But as Tejwant ji stated earlier in this discussion itself, a person who is hell bent upon to defy the word of the Guru or the Hukum, will eventually find any justification. <<</p><p></p><p>What if indeed the Hukum had nothing to do with the Caloric Order but about Karma and the nature of mind in general? Would not focussing wrongly on the former in fact have a negative influence on one’s ability to understand and follow the dictates of the latter? In any case, wouldn’t the one override the other making it really odd that we should give so much importance to it? Are our values misplaced?</p><p></p><p>It may be true that these two youngsters in this discussion have other motives as well. Personally, I felt that the original question was wrong to begin with. But then again, is it not possible that other reasons include the inability by the older generation, including those around them encountered so far, to show enough understanding? There is a difference after all, between the truths as taught by Guru Nanak and as they are understood by those who follow his teachings. While you try to promote the teachings, must you not also take into account your own limited understanding?</p><p></p><p>I’ve been quite forthright, but I hope you do not take it negatively. And of course some assumptions have been made for which I’m ready to be corrected.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 133389, member: 586"] Aman ji, Quote: >>It is really strange when people keep on arguing that there is no mention in Gurbani about cutting or not cutting your hair. In Japji Sahib, it is clearly stated to live our life in accordance to the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) or what we call Bhana in Punjabi. This statement encompasses every trivial argument we make like justifying of Cutting of Hair at any part of the body. Kesh or Bodily Hair grow as per the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. Cutting edges of hair or plucking or shaving eyebrows or shaving hair from any part of your body is a clear defiance of the Hukum (The Laws of Nature) of the Almighty. << Perhaps Laws of Nature encompasses more than what you think and the intended meaning and implications is therefore quite different from how you understand it? Please consider the following, the comments are my own which admittedly, is a topic I don’t usually think about: The Five Cosmic Orders. 1. Caloric Order. 2. Germinal Order. 3. Moral Order or Karma. 4. Psychical Order. 5. Natural phenomena sequence. 1. Caloric Order is that which is responsible for the maintenance and disintegration of the material universe. It is what is behind the object of study of the sciences including such things as the origin of the star systems and galaxies and their eventual disintegration. It is the cause for the different seasons and why what germinates where and when. That which people call evolution is in reality a result of this very phenomenon when looked from a particular perspective. Indeed our physical body, much of what it is composed of, is governed by this particular order of things. 2. Germinal Order is about what we identify as the plant kingdom and is what dictates such things as seeds sprout and becomes a tree with its roots, leaves and branches and which then bear fruits. It is that which dictates such things as an apple seed can’t result in a coconut tree. 3. Moral Order or Karma is that by which actions through body, speech and mind occur and these whether they are good or evil. And so too the results which comes from these actions, such as what good and bad experiences through the five senses occur and where and what one is born as and for how long, ugly or beautiful, in a hostile environment or in a place where the Truth is proclaimed, and so on. Good actions cannot give rise to bad results and bad actions cannot result in good. Indeed this is the reason that people are invariably faced with moral issues even though some do not go far enough as to then believe in the law of cause and effect which is Karma, for e.g. the Christians. 4. Psychical Order is reflected in such things as the ‘thinking process’ always following the experience through the five senses whereby ‘sense’ is made out of those experiences. For example, sound when heard is immediately followed by thinking about what that sound is, or reading of words happening here following the experience of these black and white colours on the computer screen. And not only this, this Order is also the cause for the reactions with good and evil tendencies as per the individual and why different people think variously and have different interests and abilities. 5. Natural phenomena sequence covers all the above and more. It is due to this that the earth element is distinct from the fire element and one can’t change to the other. Similarly, feeling is not perception, kindness is not cruelty and ignorance is not wisdom and each of these has its own individual characteristic, function, manifestation and proximate cause. And this is the law which dictates that all of these things are conditioned and impermanent and insubstantial. The natural phenomena sequence is why when there is ignorance, formations or karma arises, and from this rebirth which is the basis for more experience through the five senses resulting in feeling and the craving for this and hence clinging to becoming and all that comes from having been born, namely old age, sickness and death, continually over and over again. And likewise it is that which is behind what causes such phenomena to cease, namely with full enlightenment where no condition for rebirth exists. In short it is the cause for the general rule, “When that exists, this comes to be. From the arising of that, this arises. When that does not exist, this does not come to be. When that ceases, then this ceases.” So Aman ji, it would seem to me that the meaning intended by Hukum must primarily be based upon the Moral Order, if not also the last one, namely Natural Phenomena Sequence. All religions after all, emphasize morality and surely Sikhism does this from page one to the last page. Hair and nails are governed by the Caloric Order and would unlikely be a concern to anyone who wishes to grow in goodness and develop wisdom. ==== Quote: >>The Hukum by the tenth Master to Keep Kesh is simply a reminder to follow this important Hukum of accepting Bhana/The Laws of Nature.<< Someone suggested reason for the rule for keeping hair as being necessitated due to the social and political situation at the time. Why not go along with this and allow each individual to judge his own situation as to whether he would like to maintain or cut his hair? ==== Quote: >>But as Tejwant ji stated earlier in this discussion itself, a person who is hell bent upon to defy the word of the Guru or the Hukum, will eventually find any justification. << What if indeed the Hukum had nothing to do with the Caloric Order but about Karma and the nature of mind in general? Would not focussing wrongly on the former in fact have a negative influence on one’s ability to understand and follow the dictates of the latter? In any case, wouldn’t the one override the other making it really odd that we should give so much importance to it? Are our values misplaced? It may be true that these two youngsters in this discussion have other motives as well. Personally, I felt that the original question was wrong to begin with. But then again, is it not possible that other reasons include the inability by the older generation, including those around them encountered so far, to show enough understanding? There is a difference after all, between the truths as taught by Guru Nanak and as they are understood by those who follow his teachings. While you try to promote the teachings, must you not also take into account your own limited understanding? I’ve been quite forthright, but I hope you do not take it negatively. And of course some assumptions have been made for which I’m ready to be corrected. [/QUOTE]
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Why Are We Not Allowed To Cut Hair When It's Ok To Cut Nails, Since Both Are Created By God?
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