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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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<blockquote data-quote="wizesikh" data-source="post: 63321" data-attributes="member: 5380"><p>-----------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> Agnostic is a soft term, you are at a point where you cant decide if there is a god or not.. The reason you claim to be a atheist is because I believe you have not yet studied your Guru Granth Sahib ji.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I agree most people are agnostic, even religious ones.. That’s why we have so much confusion in faith of god.</p><p> We all tend to do what we are supposed to do (rituals, holidays, etc..), but hardly any do it with faith, and realization</p><p> That there is a god. They do it because that is what they are suppose to do.. They don’t have the understanding as</p><p> To why they do it.</p><p> </p><p> That’s one of the major reasons why people give up on god... because so many people who appear to be religious</p><p> don’t have a clue of where they are headed... That is also the major reason why Your Guru Nanak Dev Ji took the</p><p> duty to come down to earth to help people.. That is why he traveled all over to discuss with all these ignorant</p><p> Agnostic religious holy men about why they perform the religious rituals that they did without true devotion to god... </p><p> </p><p> a holy man/women (saint) is a person who people look up to for guidance and love for existence... but when that</p><p> Holy man/women only wears religious garments and has no clue of what god is ... then people Who look up to him develop hate for god... and tend to believe there is no god...</p><p> </p><p> As human beings we look up to a leader for support and guidance.. but when that leader himself is corrupt..</p><p> and his corruption his discovered.. Then we tend to let go of everything and run the opposite direction.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> ------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> --------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> There is a big difference between WANT / NEED - one reflects desire and the other a requirement. It doesn’t </p><p> Matter if you live or die... these things will always exist.. In Sukhmani Sahib it says a man who is virtues </p><p> Dies and takes many births.. Because he keeps on believing that he is the one who will make the change.</p><p> Therefore he dies over and over again to constantly make an effort to change things... yet nothing is in his hand.</p><p> You have yet to discover your true purpose... but even that is in his hands and under his wishes.</p><p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> I didn’t compare them with apples and oranges.. .. lol </p><p> </p><p> you missed my point... I was not saying she is better then the rest or the rest are better then her.. My point</p><p> was this that a simple old lady.. was able to gain as much wealth and power (probably far more power) by simply</p><p> Praying and helping. The two (prayer / seva) had such a powerful impact on her life that the energy within her</p><p> touched billions of people.. </p><p> </p><p> The other two gained financial power by selling either themselves or their product</p><p> and both of them are living life in luxury surrounded by maya.. both of them invested their life on their IMAGE.. </p><p> their PRIDE.. and when their name comes to an end (product life cycle chart) people will dump them.. Hence their image</p><p> their pride will be trash... </p><p> </p><p> But look at the difference.. Mother Teresa helped billions by simple prayer and seva... she did not invest her life</p><p> in HER IMAGE, or in HER PRIDE.. she invested her life in God... and what was the impact? she embedded herself</p><p> in the hearts and minds of people of all religion all over the world..... </p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> ---------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> When you help someone or do a good deed.. your body feels good and so does your heart .. ? true ?</p><p> Gurbani makes it clear about the 5 thieves within the body.. the king of those 5 thieves is EGO.</p><p> </p><p> After you help someone, it is human nature for ego to kick in and say "yes "I" have done good, therefore "i" am</p><p> better " what Simran does is it eradicates this ego... by putting gods name forward... </p><p> It tells the mind "no it is not you that has done good, but it is waheguru that has given you the opportunity to serve </p><p> and help someone" ..... that is what creates a humble , loving and forgiving mind..</p><p> </p><p> That is why Gurbani teaches that everything is god's will.. so that man does not let "ego" conquer his mind.</p><p> </p><p> (want evidence? go ahead and do seva for a month without simran, and another month with simran, you will get </p><p> first hand evidence)</p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> If your close to your family and your father dies and you have faith in god.. you dont get depressed.. you say "I am coming </p><p> too, just wait up" but if you dont have faith in god then well... everything is over.. cuz death for you means "the end".. </p><p> that will put you in a state of complete depression (depending on how much you loved your family member) because</p><p> you will never ever meet that loved one again... imagine the thought of not meeting your loved one after you die because </p><p> you dont believe in after life and the law of karma.. (gives me the chills just thinking about it)</p><p> </p><p> I am not saying that a Atheists person is always depressed , but I am saying is that everything he is aiming for </p><p> will cause depression , because after death everything that he has done/ worked is OVER.. The END.. </p><p> but a person who believes in GOD.. continues to live life after death .. hence the law of karma, and the soul / body theory,</p><p> and the theory of reincarnation... if a Atheist doesnt believe in any of that then what good are the things that he does</p><p> today? or tom? everything will end the day he dies.. </p><p> </p><p> A true Saint, Sikh, religious person of any relgion has a purpose to reach god (Gurbani as evidence). As I mentioned </p><p> before many relgious people are also agnostics... they are the ones who are worried about financial money or food on </p><p> their table..</p><p> </p><p> Principals of Sikhi are very very logical. The Gurbani does not preach killing/ starving your body to give to the Gurudawara.</p><p> The Gurudawara itself gives to the poor so they dont starve . </p><p> </p><p> People who dont have anything and still give to the GW are victems of agnostic relgious people who are misguiding them.</p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> You missed the point...... again.. Internal wounds are far more dangerous then external. a broken arm, a leg that gets cut </p><p> off etc.. can all be fixed/ healed. but if you had a broken arm and your mind was weak.. that pain would be</p><p> 10000times worse ... a child who gets a small cut on his finger .. screams as if his entire hand has been cut.. but a adult </p><p> who gets a small cut .. simply puts a bandaid and moves on...</p><p> </p><p> The same is with a Sikh who has unshakeable faith in his Guru... He/she develops a very strong immune system (state of </p><p> mind is attached to god, therefore the body of the human being copies the pattern of god, (humans are copycats, a child </p><p> copies his parents and learns how to talk before even attending school))... but when someone or something attacks it </p><p> from the physical side... his mind accepts the pain as if it was love from God.. </p><p> (Gurbani as proof: Tera Kiya Meetha Laage) and he continues to live in the same state of mind as he was before the </p><p> accident, therefore nothing changed.</p><p> </p><p> Can a Atheist live like that? your arm gets cut off today, that is 25% of your body gone.</p><p> dont tell me you wont lose some mental balance when you lose a arm or a leg .. dont tell me you wont get depressed if </p><p> you know your only gonna be living a certain age and on top of that you have already lost a arm... </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> A person who truly believes in GOD (not talking about agnostic religious fools) ... the laws, rules, regulations of</p><p> mankind .. do not apply to him. Belief in God helps man stand out from the rest.. it helps him make impossible.. possible.... </p><p> </p><p> And about the surgery part.... Je tu Khalsa nu Mighty he nahin samajya te fir ki fark penda hai... lol if my body ever</p><p> got into that position where I would have a choice to remove kesh or die... I would have the kesh removed.. because </p><p> if I dont have a body to serve my Guru then what good is the kesh?</p><p> </p><p> But I would like to add, there comes a time in a person's life where he is so absorbed in the love of God that he is </p><p> overflowing with faith ... he relies not on a dr. for help, but only and only on god. It is a personal experience which I can not explain to you in words.</p><p> </p><p> That person falls into a state of mind where his Guru’s Hukam is far more important then death itself. That is the point where miracles happen… and science itself falls in disbelief…. While the rest of the world calls him a idiot.. and atheists use their logic to explain... the truth ends up getting buried under all….</p><p> </p><p> The result.. a man walks out of his cancer bed healed.. a man with aids walks up and leaves and is healed.. etc.. </p><p> </p><p> It is a personal choice, that does not apply to everyone.. only to a few who have a strong personal relationship with god.. </p><p> </p><p> The rest of us are agnostics.. and try to imitate the experience.. which results in many mishaps because our faith in god is not strong.. weak mind = weak results</p><p> And people who watch us fail ….gather around and say “oh look god doesn’t exist, look at what happen the poor man who always prayed just died (while in reality the “poor man” always spent his time playing video games and indulging himself in maya and at the last moment he tried to act religious just to save his own ***)</p><p> </p><p> Also keep in mind, that a person who has faith in god has a 2nd chance, compared to a Atheist, who only has his hopes on the dr... doesn’t a logical mind say that the more chances you have the better your odds of winning?</p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> According to the Gurbani, the circle of problems that you say will always exist, is pierced with the tool of Naam, </p><p> a Sikh is then able to live out of that circle within the light of God (Guru Gobind Singh Ji mentioned this when he stated he </p><p> was in the light of God and was then asked by God to enter earth). While the athiest, the agnostic, the Good, the Bad , the </p><p> confused.. etc.. all are subject to revolve in a secular humanisms purpose in life that is never complete, a Sikh is able to</p><p> walk out of the circle with the Guidance of his Guru. (By the word Sikh, I mean a Seaker of GOD, could be of any religion)</p><p> </p><p> ------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> ------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> my turn to say... "stop pulling things out of the air". only cell phones and satellites can do that... lol </p><p> </p><p> "Humanity goes in a one-way irreversible path" --- Majority of people go one way.. the leaders who are few in numbers are </p><p> the ones that have the power to reverse the path.. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Your entire argument is basically about the identity of the Khalsa. The Philosophy and teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji ,</p><p> were true in the past... they are true today.. and will be true in the future. </p><p> </p><p> I personally dont believe the 5ks for a Sikh are a requirement, contrary to what you may have been brought up with.. </p><p> </p><p> A Sikh is first who submits himself to his Guru.. HEAD on His hand (has already accepted death). </p><p> </p><p> For a Soldier to wear the uniform of his senior officer is a Privilege</p><p> For a Warrior to be Given the Sword of his Master is a Privilege</p><p> </p><p> The Turban, The Beard.. The 5ks ALL are a Privilege for a Sikh. </p><p> Given to a Sikh by His Guru</p><p> </p><p> but the realization for that takes time...only a humble .. mature mind can understand this... a young amateur mind will </p><p> NOT.</p><p> </p><p> Many parents are Hypocrites / Agnostics, many Religious leaders are Hypocrites/agnostics.. and they are all forcing the </p><p> youth to keep the 5ks without attaching them to simran and seva... WHY are they doing this? because they themselves </p><p> dont know where they are headed and are just doing it because even though they don’t have the knowledge.. they have </p><p> what is called blind faith... hope.. that although they are not able to give proper guidance.. maybe .. just maybe the Sikh </p><p> ROOP will force the children to seek and search for guidance by themselves...</p><p> </p><p> That is the reason why the identity seems to look as if it is dieing.. because many are too lazy to look for guidance..</p><p> because many end up with false leaders who give false guidance...</p><p> because many would just rather fit in with the rest and “LIVE” their life</p><p> because many would just say they are Atheist in a attempt to not be bugged about god is this god is that.. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p> Its not easy for a young child to walk into a classroom with hundreds of eyes staring at him and asking him questions..</p><p> for which he himself has no answers .. because his parents have not given him any answers except "just do it"</p><p> </p><p> But you know what this has really created? it has given birth to a new generation of Sikhs (not talking about those who </p><p> have cut their hair, or walked out and given up, I am talking about those who continue to fight and look for answers). This </p><p> new generation of Sikhs can be seen everywhere.. look over the internet.. how many sites have generated about Sikhism? </p><p> Do you really think the old giani ji at the GW created those sites from Punjab? One sikh is trying to help another … new generation.. saving itself…</p><p> look at all these forums all over.. look at all the participation discussion.. look at all the samagams... kirtans by youth taking </p><p> place... look at all the gatkas being played...look at the attempt of the new generation to revive its Khalsa..to spread the message of Guru Nanak… all this on foreign land .... These Sikhs are so firm in their roop and dharam </p><p> that they speak the western language, and have adopted the western culture to suite their needs. </p><p> </p><p> I know you know that’s Sikh’s living in USA were forced to remove their turbans for checkup even after going through a metal detector... what happen? a Sikh organization interfered and was able to change that rule.... </p><p> Western Culture.. Western Language... 2% of india....hardly 1% with turbans... changed the law for the leading nation in</p><p> the world... how? Because they stood by truth.. (france is up next)</p><p> </p><p> You claim that your mind thinks logical, but do you not see the Logic here? Do you not see how such a small group is having such a powerful impact on the world today?</p><p> </p><p> The point I have made here is this that numbers never made a difference... numbers are only illusions... The Emperors at the times of our Guru’s made the same assumption about Sikhi.. The Hindus during the 1984 riots made the same assumption about Sikhi.. time after time they were all proven wrong… history as evidence.. the Khalsa lost many men… many times over it took massive losses… but despite the odds.. it raised itself over and over again from the battlefield… </p><p> </p><p> the Will in 1 man can inspire a NATION to change its thought. whether it is Hitler or Ghandi or MLK JR... it only takes 1 man to change the minds of</p><p> millions... </p><p> </p><p> so dont tell me the Sikh Identity is going to die.. Dont tell me Guru Nanak's Philosophy is going to be in the books of history.. </p><p> </p><p> Dont pull stuff out of the air.. Niether I nor you can predict what is going to happen in the future...</p><p> </p><p> But I do know one thing.. the Children of those Sikhs who have made a effort to discover their Sikhi on their on... will be far </p><p> more powerful then the Sikhs that striked fear in the hearts of muslim emperors who ruled over india. The New Generation of Sikhs will bring a new rise to the Khalsa.</p><p> </p><p> There comes a point in life when man searches for the truth because he/she is sick of illusions of the corporate world.. sick of the lies.. tired of being false… </p><p> When the new generation of Sikhs understands the purpose of the Identity without being forced to keep it.. they will happily accept it… and at that time.. the rules of fashion will change. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p> </p><p> Don’t be so consumed with trends, statistics, and logic… have a open mind.. life is full of surprises and is completely unpredictable…</p><p> -=On the side note=-… they say at Harvard every year they have 2 groups that invest on stocks. One group performs studies and research on which stocks to purchase… the other throws darts and selects the stocks that the dart lands on..</p><p> </p><p> The result is… sometimes Logic and Research wins.. and sometimes the dart wins.. </p><p> </p><p> I don’t know about you.. but to me it feels as if research and statistics can not be trusted 100%.. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> therefore I will not place all my hopes on the Dr.. on Logic.. on research… </p><p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> What is really here? and what is not? obviously you have not seen a magic trick being played. What is reality? Reality itself has NOT been defined till this date by science.</p><p> </p><p> a man who see's a child stealing a apple to eat--- for him reality is the child is a thief</p><p> a mother who see's a child stealing a apple to eat-- for her a child is trying to feed his stomach.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Your Reality is different from mines.. for you what does not exists.. I see everyday..</p><p> The Guru - Shiri Guru Granth Sahib... The GurSikhs, the Gurbani.. the kirtan.. the devotion.. the love... </p><p> I see it.. you dont.. why? because I believe.. you dont.(not yet) <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> ----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> As I mentioned before.. in this age of Kalyug there are lies everywhere.. whether it is in a religious institute or in the</p><p> gathering of Atheists... That is why your Guru had everything put down in the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib.... </p><p> </p><p> Did you even make a attempt to read the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?</p><p> ----------------------------------------</p><p> ------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> If the morals stay and adapt.. wont that lead to have the roop? </p><p> If you invest in something and it provides you with profits.. wont you invest more?</p><p>------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> as far “evidence and proof”, I can give you many from 1980 all the way to 2007.. over and over again... </p><p> </p><p> I know you have gotten your facts from all sorts of sources, that I myself can also provide counter parts for.. we can have a never ending battle… <span style="font-family: 'Wingdings'">J</span></p><p> </p><p> You have gotten your understanding of this world from books written by men who have tried to understand how things work..</p><p> </p><p> but....have you read the books from men who have admired the man who created the things which are all around you?</p><p> </p><p> Have your read your Japji Sahib?</p><p> Have you read your Sukhmani Sahib?</p><p> Have you read your Shiri Guru Granth Sahib?</p><p> have you made a effort to go over them before declaring yourself a Atheist?</p><p> -------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> -----------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Personally bro, I have been at the same state of mind as you are.. probably far worse then you can imagine.. so much lies.. so much misguidance.. and soo many ignorant fanatics ….</p><p> It really throws a normal person in depression…..</p><p> Don’t look for answers from religious scholars, every single one of them has a different answer … lol .. make a effort to understand the logic and love of Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji, by reading it and applying it to your daily life.. </p><p> </p><p> Despite what may be visible to the Eye… Sikhi, the Identity is not falling.. it’s routes are only getting stronger, firmer. </p><p> </p><p> It is logic, a person with a better understanding makes a firmer decision. Once a child understands his Sikhi, he will make a firmer decision.. a choice that will be so firm that the coming “corporate world” will not be able to change.. but will have to accept the fact and make its rules around it…..</p><p> </p><p> Don’t be disillusioned by numbers… it only takes one man with a firm will to change a entire nation.</p><p> </p><p> ----------------------------------------------------</p><p> ---------------------------------------------------</p><p> 2007 is over.. Prepare yourself for 2008 ... its about time you make a sincere effort to read Your Guru's Bani before you come up with a conclusion about who you really are. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wizesikh, post: 63321, member: 5380"] ----------------------------------------------- Agnostic is a soft term, you are at a point where you cant decide if there is a god or not.. The reason you claim to be a atheist is because I believe you have not yet studied your Guru Granth Sahib ji. I agree most people are agnostic, even religious ones.. That’s why we have so much confusion in faith of god. We all tend to do what we are supposed to do (rituals, holidays, etc..), but hardly any do it with faith, and realization That there is a god. They do it because that is what they are suppose to do.. They don’t have the understanding as To why they do it. That’s one of the major reasons why people give up on god... because so many people who appear to be religious don’t have a clue of where they are headed... That is also the major reason why Your Guru Nanak Dev Ji took the duty to come down to earth to help people.. That is why he traveled all over to discuss with all these ignorant Agnostic religious holy men about why they perform the religious rituals that they did without true devotion to god... a holy man/women (saint) is a person who people look up to for guidance and love for existence... but when that Holy man/women only wears religious garments and has no clue of what god is ... then people Who look up to him develop hate for god... and tend to believe there is no god... As human beings we look up to a leader for support and guidance.. but when that leader himself is corrupt.. and his corruption his discovered.. Then we tend to let go of everything and run the opposite direction. ------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------- There is a big difference between WANT / NEED - one reflects desire and the other a requirement. It doesn’t Matter if you live or die... these things will always exist.. In Sukhmani Sahib it says a man who is virtues Dies and takes many births.. Because he keeps on believing that he is the one who will make the change. Therefore he dies over and over again to constantly make an effort to change things... yet nothing is in his hand. You have yet to discover your true purpose... but even that is in his hands and under his wishes. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn’t compare them with apples and oranges.. .. lol you missed my point... I was not saying she is better then the rest or the rest are better then her.. My point was this that a simple old lady.. was able to gain as much wealth and power (probably far more power) by simply Praying and helping. The two (prayer / seva) had such a powerful impact on her life that the energy within her touched billions of people.. The other two gained financial power by selling either themselves or their product and both of them are living life in luxury surrounded by maya.. both of them invested their life on their IMAGE.. their PRIDE.. and when their name comes to an end (product life cycle chart) people will dump them.. Hence their image their pride will be trash... But look at the difference.. Mother Teresa helped billions by simple prayer and seva... she did not invest her life in HER IMAGE, or in HER PRIDE.. she invested her life in God... and what was the impact? she embedded herself in the hearts and minds of people of all religion all over the world..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------- When you help someone or do a good deed.. your body feels good and so does your heart .. ? true ? Gurbani makes it clear about the 5 thieves within the body.. the king of those 5 thieves is EGO. After you help someone, it is human nature for ego to kick in and say "yes "I" have done good, therefore "i" am better " what Simran does is it eradicates this ego... by putting gods name forward... It tells the mind "no it is not you that has done good, but it is waheguru that has given you the opportunity to serve and help someone" ..... that is what creates a humble , loving and forgiving mind.. That is why Gurbani teaches that everything is god's will.. so that man does not let "ego" conquer his mind. (want evidence? go ahead and do seva for a month without simran, and another month with simran, you will get first hand evidence) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If your close to your family and your father dies and you have faith in god.. you dont get depressed.. you say "I am coming too, just wait up" but if you dont have faith in god then well... everything is over.. cuz death for you means "the end".. that will put you in a state of complete depression (depending on how much you loved your family member) because you will never ever meet that loved one again... imagine the thought of not meeting your loved one after you die because you dont believe in after life and the law of karma.. (gives me the chills just thinking about it) I am not saying that a Atheists person is always depressed , but I am saying is that everything he is aiming for will cause depression , because after death everything that he has done/ worked is OVER.. The END.. but a person who believes in GOD.. continues to live life after death .. hence the law of karma, and the soul / body theory, and the theory of reincarnation... if a Atheist doesnt believe in any of that then what good are the things that he does today? or tom? everything will end the day he dies.. A true Saint, Sikh, religious person of any relgion has a purpose to reach god (Gurbani as evidence). As I mentioned before many relgious people are also agnostics... they are the ones who are worried about financial money or food on their table.. Principals of Sikhi are very very logical. The Gurbani does not preach killing/ starving your body to give to the Gurudawara. The Gurudawara itself gives to the poor so they dont starve . People who dont have anything and still give to the GW are victems of agnostic relgious people who are misguiding them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You missed the point...... again.. Internal wounds are far more dangerous then external. a broken arm, a leg that gets cut off etc.. can all be fixed/ healed. but if you had a broken arm and your mind was weak.. that pain would be 10000times worse ... a child who gets a small cut on his finger .. screams as if his entire hand has been cut.. but a adult who gets a small cut .. simply puts a bandaid and moves on... The same is with a Sikh who has unshakeable faith in his Guru... He/she develops a very strong immune system (state of mind is attached to god, therefore the body of the human being copies the pattern of god, (humans are copycats, a child copies his parents and learns how to talk before even attending school))... but when someone or something attacks it from the physical side... his mind accepts the pain as if it was love from God.. (Gurbani as proof: Tera Kiya Meetha Laage) and he continues to live in the same state of mind as he was before the accident, therefore nothing changed. Can a Atheist live like that? your arm gets cut off today, that is 25% of your body gone. dont tell me you wont lose some mental balance when you lose a arm or a leg .. dont tell me you wont get depressed if you know your only gonna be living a certain age and on top of that you have already lost a arm... A person who truly believes in GOD (not talking about agnostic religious fools) ... the laws, rules, regulations of mankind .. do not apply to him. Belief in God helps man stand out from the rest.. it helps him make impossible.. possible.... And about the surgery part.... Je tu Khalsa nu Mighty he nahin samajya te fir ki fark penda hai... lol if my body ever got into that position where I would have a choice to remove kesh or die... I would have the kesh removed.. because if I dont have a body to serve my Guru then what good is the kesh? But I would like to add, there comes a time in a person's life where he is so absorbed in the love of God that he is overflowing with faith ... he relies not on a dr. for help, but only and only on god. It is a personal experience which I can not explain to you in words. That person falls into a state of mind where his Guru’s Hukam is far more important then death itself. That is the point where miracles happen… and science itself falls in disbelief…. While the rest of the world calls him a idiot.. and atheists use their logic to explain... the truth ends up getting buried under all…. The result.. a man walks out of his cancer bed healed.. a man with aids walks up and leaves and is healed.. etc.. It is a personal choice, that does not apply to everyone.. only to a few who have a strong personal relationship with god.. The rest of us are agnostics.. and try to imitate the experience.. which results in many mishaps because our faith in god is not strong.. weak mind = weak results And people who watch us fail ….gather around and say “oh look god doesn’t exist, look at what happen the poor man who always prayed just died (while in reality the “poor man” always spent his time playing video games and indulging himself in maya and at the last moment he tried to act religious just to save his own ***) Also keep in mind, that a person who has faith in god has a 2nd chance, compared to a Atheist, who only has his hopes on the dr... doesn’t a logical mind say that the more chances you have the better your odds of winning? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ According to the Gurbani, the circle of problems that you say will always exist, is pierced with the tool of Naam, a Sikh is then able to live out of that circle within the light of God (Guru Gobind Singh Ji mentioned this when he stated he was in the light of God and was then asked by God to enter earth). While the athiest, the agnostic, the Good, the Bad , the confused.. etc.. all are subject to revolve in a secular humanisms purpose in life that is never complete, a Sikh is able to walk out of the circle with the Guidance of his Guru. (By the word Sikh, I mean a Seaker of GOD, could be of any religion) ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ my turn to say... "stop pulling things out of the air". only cell phones and satellites can do that... lol "Humanity goes in a one-way irreversible path" --- Majority of people go one way.. the leaders who are few in numbers are the ones that have the power to reverse the path.. Your entire argument is basically about the identity of the Khalsa. The Philosophy and teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji , were true in the past... they are true today.. and will be true in the future. I personally dont believe the 5ks for a Sikh are a requirement, contrary to what you may have been brought up with.. A Sikh is first who submits himself to his Guru.. HEAD on His hand (has already accepted death). For a Soldier to wear the uniform of his senior officer is a Privilege For a Warrior to be Given the Sword of his Master is a Privilege The Turban, The Beard.. The 5ks ALL are a Privilege for a Sikh. Given to a Sikh by His Guru but the realization for that takes time...only a humble .. mature mind can understand this... a young amateur mind will NOT. Many parents are Hypocrites / Agnostics, many Religious leaders are Hypocrites/agnostics.. and they are all forcing the youth to keep the 5ks without attaching them to simran and seva... WHY are they doing this? because they themselves dont know where they are headed and are just doing it because even though they don’t have the knowledge.. they have what is called blind faith... hope.. that although they are not able to give proper guidance.. maybe .. just maybe the Sikh ROOP will force the children to seek and search for guidance by themselves... That is the reason why the identity seems to look as if it is dieing.. because many are too lazy to look for guidance.. because many end up with false leaders who give false guidance... because many would just rather fit in with the rest and “LIVE” their life because many would just say they are Atheist in a attempt to not be bugged about god is this god is that.. :) Its not easy for a young child to walk into a classroom with hundreds of eyes staring at him and asking him questions.. for which he himself has no answers .. because his parents have not given him any answers except "just do it" But you know what this has really created? it has given birth to a new generation of Sikhs (not talking about those who have cut their hair, or walked out and given up, I am talking about those who continue to fight and look for answers). This new generation of Sikhs can be seen everywhere.. look over the internet.. how many sites have generated about Sikhism? Do you really think the old giani ji at the GW created those sites from Punjab? One sikh is trying to help another … new generation.. saving itself… look at all these forums all over.. look at all the participation discussion.. look at all the samagams... kirtans by youth taking place... look at all the gatkas being played...look at the attempt of the new generation to revive its Khalsa..to spread the message of Guru Nanak… all this on foreign land .... These Sikhs are so firm in their roop and dharam that they speak the western language, and have adopted the western culture to suite their needs. I know you know that’s Sikh’s living in USA were forced to remove their turbans for checkup even after going through a metal detector... what happen? a Sikh organization interfered and was able to change that rule.... Western Culture.. Western Language... 2% of india....hardly 1% with turbans... changed the law for the leading nation in the world... how? Because they stood by truth.. (france is up next) You claim that your mind thinks logical, but do you not see the Logic here? Do you not see how such a small group is having such a powerful impact on the world today? The point I have made here is this that numbers never made a difference... numbers are only illusions... The Emperors at the times of our Guru’s made the same assumption about Sikhi.. The Hindus during the 1984 riots made the same assumption about Sikhi.. time after time they were all proven wrong… history as evidence.. the Khalsa lost many men… many times over it took massive losses… but despite the odds.. it raised itself over and over again from the battlefield… the Will in 1 man can inspire a NATION to change its thought. whether it is Hitler or Ghandi or MLK JR... it only takes 1 man to change the minds of millions... so dont tell me the Sikh Identity is going to die.. Dont tell me Guru Nanak's Philosophy is going to be in the books of history.. Dont pull stuff out of the air.. Niether I nor you can predict what is going to happen in the future... But I do know one thing.. the Children of those Sikhs who have made a effort to discover their Sikhi on their on... will be far more powerful then the Sikhs that striked fear in the hearts of muslim emperors who ruled over india. The New Generation of Sikhs will bring a new rise to the Khalsa. There comes a point in life when man searches for the truth because he/she is sick of illusions of the corporate world.. sick of the lies.. tired of being false… When the new generation of Sikhs understands the purpose of the Identity without being forced to keep it.. they will happily accept it… and at that time.. the rules of fashion will change. ;) Don’t be so consumed with trends, statistics, and logic… have a open mind.. life is full of surprises and is completely unpredictable… -=On the side note=-… they say at Harvard every year they have 2 groups that invest on stocks. One group performs studies and research on which stocks to purchase… the other throws darts and selects the stocks that the dart lands on.. The result is… sometimes Logic and Research wins.. and sometimes the dart wins.. I don’t know about you.. but to me it feels as if research and statistics can not be trusted 100%.. ;) therefore I will not place all my hopes on the Dr.. on Logic.. on research… --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is really here? and what is not? obviously you have not seen a magic trick being played. What is reality? Reality itself has NOT been defined till this date by science. a man who see's a child stealing a apple to eat--- for him reality is the child is a thief a mother who see's a child stealing a apple to eat-- for her a child is trying to feed his stomach. Your Reality is different from mines.. for you what does not exists.. I see everyday.. The Guru - Shiri Guru Granth Sahib... The GurSikhs, the Gurbani.. the kirtan.. the devotion.. the love... I see it.. you dont.. why? because I believe.. you dont.(not yet) :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------- As I mentioned before.. in this age of Kalyug there are lies everywhere.. whether it is in a religious institute or in the gathering of Atheists... That is why your Guru had everything put down in the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib.... Did you even make a attempt to read the Shiri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? ---------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ If the morals stay and adapt.. wont that lead to have the roop? If you invest in something and it provides you with profits.. wont you invest more? ------------------------------------------------------------ as far “evidence and proof”, I can give you many from 1980 all the way to 2007.. over and over again... I know you have gotten your facts from all sorts of sources, that I myself can also provide counter parts for.. we can have a never ending battle… [FONT=Wingdings]J[/FONT] You have gotten your understanding of this world from books written by men who have tried to understand how things work.. but....have you read the books from men who have admired the man who created the things which are all around you? Have your read your Japji Sahib? Have you read your Sukhmani Sahib? Have you read your Shiri Guru Granth Sahib? have you made a effort to go over them before declaring yourself a Atheist? ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- Personally bro, I have been at the same state of mind as you are.. probably far worse then you can imagine.. so much lies.. so much misguidance.. and soo many ignorant fanatics …. It really throws a normal person in depression….. Don’t look for answers from religious scholars, every single one of them has a different answer … lol .. make a effort to understand the logic and love of Shiri Guru Granth Sahib ji, by reading it and applying it to your daily life.. Despite what may be visible to the Eye… Sikhi, the Identity is not falling.. it’s routes are only getting stronger, firmer. It is logic, a person with a better understanding makes a firmer decision. Once a child understands his Sikhi, he will make a firmer decision.. a choice that will be so firm that the coming “corporate world” will not be able to change.. but will have to accept the fact and make its rules around it….. Don’t be disillusioned by numbers… it only takes one man with a firm will to change a entire nation. ---------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- 2007 is over.. Prepare yourself for 2008 ... its about time you make a sincere effort to read Your Guru's Bani before you come up with a conclusion about who you really are. ;) [/QUOTE]
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