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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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What Is Karma In Buddhism And In Sikhi?
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 141413" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Jasleen ji,</p><p></p><p></p><p>This must be my longest post anywhere, so be warned. ;-)</p><p></p><p>=======</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Anything can be a condition for the arising of wisdom as long as the accumulation for this is strong. On the other hand, when it is weak or absent, no matter how much one is pointed to about the truth which is right here and right now, one would prefer instead, to proliferate in terms of past, present and future driven by attachment and wrong understanding. </p><p>And yes we should encourage people towards the good and not assume anything.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: It is good to realize that one does not understand Karma. But it can be very bad if one *misunderstands* it. A correct understanding of karma will never give the impression of being fated. Anyone who feels helpless when thinking about karma must surely be having some misconception about it. Likewise in the case of those who use it as an excuse for certain behavior.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Please change the ‘happy’ to ‘pleasure’. </p><p>I was not referring to anything situational, but rather to precise mental and physical phenomena consisting of series of momentary sense experiences together with any interpretation of these. A voice of praise for example would consist of hearing particular sounds and thinking about them in a particular way, which reflects the intention of the other person who is giving the praise. This is one thing we all seek and the rich man simply happens to receive it. </p><p></p><p>I then distinguished this from the otherwise arising of greed and other unwholesome states in the case of such a person. I said that the former must be result from the past, and indeed if you think that this person has only done evil all his life, the event must then go back to previous lives, otherwise what else could possibly be the cause? But even if we were to interpret praise, honor etc. differently, one would still have to acknowledge that the pleasant experiences through the five senses, do indeed occur for the rich man as it does for everyone else. What then would you consider as being cause for these, and when could they have been initiated? </p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: It is true that we don’t know the intentions of the other person. But praise is praise and blame is blame. If we mistake one for the other, this is due to perversion of perception and consciousness on our part, we’d be wrong in our conclusions, but this does not change the reality. If for example, we do not detect the sarcasm and are led wrongly to believe that we are being praised, this would simply be due to having been wrong about it.</p><p></p><p>But praise, blame, pleasure, pain etc. like all realities, are transient. If you are thinking something as happening in time and lasting long, then you are in fact thinking about situations and not in terms of the reality.</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p>C: You’d both need to differentiate result from causes. Being born handicapped, such as blindness, is result of bad karma done in the past. But this is only one thing and should not be tied up with other aspect of the person’s life. He or she may have great accumulations for kindness which could lead him in fact, to do much good in that life thereby increasing the chance of better birth in the future. Besides in that life itself, he could well be having good experiences through the other senses, but even if this did not happen, understanding should never cause one to feel hapless and dejected. Indeed, at those moments one would do well with some *understanding* about karma and realize that such attitudes are the stuff of the very cause for bad results. In other words, stop complaining and instead understand what is really going on!</p><p></p><p>In the case of the mentally handicapped, he may have difficulty understanding anything. But this is no reason not to try, after all what is more valuable than an encouragement to good? Besides, our concerns in this kind of situation usually revolve around worldly considerations, for example that the person should function well enough not to then be subjected to blame by other people. But we forget that it is moral integrity which is most important, indeed in that very situation patience and understanding is what all involved need to have. The way we end up trying to fix anything, when analyzed, does it not always come down to a matter of catering to desire aimed at just the four desirable ones of the eight worldly conditions?</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Not necessarily. Yes, people do get caught up in ideas about situations, but we can understand these things as being metaphors instead. In which case, being born healthy with few hardships etc. would mean there is much greater frequency of pleasant experiences through the five senses as compared to the unpleasant experiences.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p>C: And this is exactly why we need to develop our own understanding, otherwise we’d be influenced by such set values. The reference point must be a mental reality; greed is greed and unwholesome because it has a particular characteristic, function, manifestation and proximate cause. Why would you trust the majority view to dictate what is right and what is wrong, except when it comes to social rules?</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Even for those who die at an old age, the karma which decides the next rebirth does not necessarily come from this life, but objects and tendencies from past lives can come in at any time. And it is the law of psychical order that just before the dying consciousness which is result, a moment of mental volition must arise.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Hmm, to teach is karma, but you are making it sound as if it is ‘result’ of karma. Or do you mean that he received praise, status and gain?</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p>gs. </p><p></p><p></p><p>C: You’d need to think about all this in terms of momentary experiences. In a day, we all experience both the result of good as well as bad karma; this is what makes this ‘human plane’ ideal for the development of wisdom. I have no problem in this regard in accepting that the Buddha, even after his enlightenment, experienced results of bad karma done in past lives. Indeed this happened just before his death when he ate bad pork curry and had to experience pain and discomfort.</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Then will yourself to enlightenment, right here and right now! </p><p>Which karma conditioned which result is said to be one of the “unthinkables” and can lead to madness if indulged in. And I believe that your insistence that it must all take place within this lifetime is a species of such thinking.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: You are confusing cause with result and attributed to karma what in reality is accumulated tendency.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p>C: First, I do not subscribe to the idea of ‘reincarnation’ but to ‘rebirth’. </p><p>Yes, it is useless to think about the past and like I said, to wonder about which result come from which cause is not only futile but harmful. On the other hand however, failing to acknowledge that the cause of a particular result can come from past lives and deeds now gives result not necessarily in this life, is to approach the matter in a way which will never lead to the understanding of it. More importantly, the accumulated tendencies if they indeed come from our endless going round the cycle of existence, but we look to tie events together to explain our behavior and moral cause and effect, this would be akin to being delirious about the whole thing.</p><p></p><p>That you think that there is control over our actions, may in fact be fed by such myopic vision. </p><p></p><p>There is no control ever, either at the level of sense experience which is “result” or at the level of volitional actions which is “cause”. Seeing arises not because we will it, but by conditions including visible object / light coming within range and contacting the eye-base and the same goes for the reaction which immediately follows. They arise by a complex set of conditions and all gone before we can think about it. It is delusory to think that there is control over any of this. But understanding this is itself a case wisdom being developed. And this leads not to think in terms of past causes and future effects, but the need to come back to the present moment. </p><p></p><p>On the other hand, no matter how much we think to only concentrate in this life, if this is motivated by wrong understanding about karma, it can only lead to proliferations *about* the present, but never understanding it.</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p>Quote Me: We should be careful about any tendency to overreach. Knowing ourselves is to know our limitations and accepting it. Ambition with respect to good qualities is still ambition and is never useful. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Wisdom does not strive, it simply understands and detaches. What you describe is the exact opposite of this.</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p>C: This is just a trick played by attachment and wrong understanding. There is no need to fear such thing happening. I was talking about acceptance which comes from understanding, not otherwise. Wisdom can only have the effect of encouraging good of all kinds by way of understanding its value and the harm in evil states. And one big evil in need of recognizing is ‘self-attachment’ which drives us to seek ‘gain’ even with regard to ideas about good.</p><p></p><p>=========</p><p></p><p></p><p>C: The aim determines the path followed, if the one is conditioned by attachment and wrong understanding, so will the other. And the end result would be what I call, ‘illusion of result’, one which is then held on to tightly and feeds into the ambition. Having perceived something as counterproductive, taking steps to correct this, what if this is aimed at that particular illusion?</p><p></p><p>========== </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Seeing through ‘wrong effort’ is an instance of ‘right effort’ and this accumulates.</p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: So you need to understand the mind don’t you? Otherwise how would you know if it is indeed right effort? Not knowing this, how can you ever be sure that seva will not serve ego in ways not readily apparent?</p><p></p><p>===========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Why do you perceive the enemy as being ‘out there’? Our real enemies are the ignorance, attachment, aversion, conceit and wrong understanding with which we keep perceiving things. One way to counter these is to develop good qualities such as kindness, compassion, moral restraint, generosity and so on. However the only way that they can gradually lose their power, is through the development of understanding, and this does not require being proactive about it. In fact a proactive approach is reflection of agitation which comes with attachment and aversion. And surely you’d not want to encourage these do you? </p><p></p><p>==========</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>C: Again, we are talking about acceptance that comes with understanding. Indeed this acceptance is a manifestation of ‘detachment’ which is a requirement from the very outset for anyone who sees the harm of its opposite, namely ‘attachment’.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 141413, member: 586"] Jasleen ji, This must be my longest post anywhere, so be warned. ;-) ======= C: Anything can be a condition for the arising of wisdom as long as the accumulation for this is strong. On the other hand, when it is weak or absent, no matter how much one is pointed to about the truth which is right here and right now, one would prefer instead, to proliferate in terms of past, present and future driven by attachment and wrong understanding. And yes we should encourage people towards the good and not assume anything. ========= C: It is good to realize that one does not understand Karma. But it can be very bad if one *misunderstands* it. A correct understanding of karma will never give the impression of being fated. Anyone who feels helpless when thinking about karma must surely be having some misconception about it. Likewise in the case of those who use it as an excuse for certain behavior. ========= C: Please change the ‘happy’ to ‘pleasure’. I was not referring to anything situational, but rather to precise mental and physical phenomena consisting of series of momentary sense experiences together with any interpretation of these. A voice of praise for example would consist of hearing particular sounds and thinking about them in a particular way, which reflects the intention of the other person who is giving the praise. This is one thing we all seek and the rich man simply happens to receive it. I then distinguished this from the otherwise arising of greed and other unwholesome states in the case of such a person. I said that the former must be result from the past, and indeed if you think that this person has only done evil all his life, the event must then go back to previous lives, otherwise what else could possibly be the cause? But even if we were to interpret praise, honor etc. differently, one would still have to acknowledge that the pleasant experiences through the five senses, do indeed occur for the rich man as it does for everyone else. What then would you consider as being cause for these, and when could they have been initiated? ========== C: It is true that we don’t know the intentions of the other person. But praise is praise and blame is blame. If we mistake one for the other, this is due to perversion of perception and consciousness on our part, we’d be wrong in our conclusions, but this does not change the reality. If for example, we do not detect the sarcasm and are led wrongly to believe that we are being praised, this would simply be due to having been wrong about it. But praise, blame, pleasure, pain etc. like all realities, are transient. If you are thinking something as happening in time and lasting long, then you are in fact thinking about situations and not in terms of the reality. ========== C: You’d both need to differentiate result from causes. Being born handicapped, such as blindness, is result of bad karma done in the past. But this is only one thing and should not be tied up with other aspect of the person’s life. He or she may have great accumulations for kindness which could lead him in fact, to do much good in that life thereby increasing the chance of better birth in the future. Besides in that life itself, he could well be having good experiences through the other senses, but even if this did not happen, understanding should never cause one to feel hapless and dejected. Indeed, at those moments one would do well with some *understanding* about karma and realize that such attitudes are the stuff of the very cause for bad results. In other words, stop complaining and instead understand what is really going on! In the case of the mentally handicapped, he may have difficulty understanding anything. But this is no reason not to try, after all what is more valuable than an encouragement to good? Besides, our concerns in this kind of situation usually revolve around worldly considerations, for example that the person should function well enough not to then be subjected to blame by other people. But we forget that it is moral integrity which is most important, indeed in that very situation patience and understanding is what all involved need to have. The way we end up trying to fix anything, when analyzed, does it not always come down to a matter of catering to desire aimed at just the four desirable ones of the eight worldly conditions? ========== C: Not necessarily. Yes, people do get caught up in ideas about situations, but we can understand these things as being metaphors instead. In which case, being born healthy with few hardships etc. would mean there is much greater frequency of pleasant experiences through the five senses as compared to the unpleasant experiences. ========= C: And this is exactly why we need to develop our own understanding, otherwise we’d be influenced by such set values. The reference point must be a mental reality; greed is greed and unwholesome because it has a particular characteristic, function, manifestation and proximate cause. Why would you trust the majority view to dictate what is right and what is wrong, except when it comes to social rules? ========== C: Even for those who die at an old age, the karma which decides the next rebirth does not necessarily come from this life, but objects and tendencies from past lives can come in at any time. And it is the law of psychical order that just before the dying consciousness which is result, a moment of mental volition must arise. ========= C: Hmm, to teach is karma, but you are making it sound as if it is ‘result’ of karma. Or do you mean that he received praise, status and gain? ========= gs. C: You’d need to think about all this in terms of momentary experiences. In a day, we all experience both the result of good as well as bad karma; this is what makes this ‘human plane’ ideal for the development of wisdom. I have no problem in this regard in accepting that the Buddha, even after his enlightenment, experienced results of bad karma done in past lives. Indeed this happened just before his death when he ate bad pork curry and had to experience pain and discomfort. ========== C: Then will yourself to enlightenment, right here and right now! Which karma conditioned which result is said to be one of the “unthinkables” and can lead to madness if indulged in. And I believe that your insistence that it must all take place within this lifetime is a species of such thinking. ========= C: You are confusing cause with result and attributed to karma what in reality is accumulated tendency. ========= C: First, I do not subscribe to the idea of ‘reincarnation’ but to ‘rebirth’. Yes, it is useless to think about the past and like I said, to wonder about which result come from which cause is not only futile but harmful. On the other hand however, failing to acknowledge that the cause of a particular result can come from past lives and deeds now gives result not necessarily in this life, is to approach the matter in a way which will never lead to the understanding of it. More importantly, the accumulated tendencies if they indeed come from our endless going round the cycle of existence, but we look to tie events together to explain our behavior and moral cause and effect, this would be akin to being delirious about the whole thing. That you think that there is control over our actions, may in fact be fed by such myopic vision. There is no control ever, either at the level of sense experience which is “result” or at the level of volitional actions which is “cause”. Seeing arises not because we will it, but by conditions including visible object / light coming within range and contacting the eye-base and the same goes for the reaction which immediately follows. They arise by a complex set of conditions and all gone before we can think about it. It is delusory to think that there is control over any of this. But understanding this is itself a case wisdom being developed. And this leads not to think in terms of past causes and future effects, but the need to come back to the present moment. On the other hand, no matter how much we think to only concentrate in this life, if this is motivated by wrong understanding about karma, it can only lead to proliferations *about* the present, but never understanding it. ========== Quote Me: We should be careful about any tendency to overreach. Knowing ourselves is to know our limitations and accepting it. Ambition with respect to good qualities is still ambition and is never useful. C: Wisdom does not strive, it simply understands and detaches. What you describe is the exact opposite of this. ========== C: This is just a trick played by attachment and wrong understanding. There is no need to fear such thing happening. I was talking about acceptance which comes from understanding, not otherwise. Wisdom can only have the effect of encouraging good of all kinds by way of understanding its value and the harm in evil states. And one big evil in need of recognizing is ‘self-attachment’ which drives us to seek ‘gain’ even with regard to ideas about good. ========= C: The aim determines the path followed, if the one is conditioned by attachment and wrong understanding, so will the other. And the end result would be what I call, ‘illusion of result’, one which is then held on to tightly and feeds into the ambition. Having perceived something as counterproductive, taking steps to correct this, what if this is aimed at that particular illusion? ========== C: Seeing through ‘wrong effort’ is an instance of ‘right effort’ and this accumulates. ========== C: So you need to understand the mind don’t you? Otherwise how would you know if it is indeed right effort? Not knowing this, how can you ever be sure that seva will not serve ego in ways not readily apparent? =========== C: Why do you perceive the enemy as being ‘out there’? Our real enemies are the ignorance, attachment, aversion, conceit and wrong understanding with which we keep perceiving things. One way to counter these is to develop good qualities such as kindness, compassion, moral restraint, generosity and so on. However the only way that they can gradually lose their power, is through the development of understanding, and this does not require being proactive about it. In fact a proactive approach is reflection of agitation which comes with attachment and aversion. And surely you’d not want to encourage these do you? ========== C: Again, we are talking about acceptance that comes with understanding. Indeed this acceptance is a manifestation of ‘detachment’ which is a requirement from the very outset for anyone who sees the harm of its opposite, namely ‘attachment’. [/QUOTE]
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