What Is Anhaad Naad?

Harkiran Kaur

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...

your absolutely right, I may not fully understand your position, but I can see you fully understand mine, in my view anything that draws you in so much to the detriment of the life around you is dangerous, the OBE's and astral shennanigans are in my view carrots to lure folk in.


The thing is Harry Ji, I was just 8 years old when the OBEs started to happen, entirely on their own. Prior to that I had no idea even what an OBE was. So I was not lured into anything. Certainly you can't say that a child of 8 is into any dangerous shenanigans just looking for a trippy experience!? For me, when I was young, OBEs were just something that I did naturally... I didn't go looking for them, they just happened on their own. So that kind of blows the carrot theory out of the water... And the experiences were never a detriment...in fact they were the opposite, because I felt so close to everyone and everything all my life, I never hesitate to help people. Additionally, I find I have a preety good intuition and empathic ability... I can usually judge people's feelings pretty well, in fact it's almost like I can almost feel it with them. So when someone is hurt, I have actually been close to tears myself and feeling their pain with them...even those I don't know. This helps me to be a better person physically, while also being aware that everyone are really one, connected, and feel closer to Waheguru Ji. How can that be detrimental at all? It's not even something I asked for in this life.
 

Tejwant Singh

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I do not understand as to why this is stated as bad translation. The various stages as per Japuji to reach the True Lord and attain the state of Parmanand (bliss), one has to cross through Dharam stage, knowledge stage, sharam stage, karam stage to reach the stage of Sach khand the world of real bliss. One has to live in the world like 'jal mahi kamal saman' truly clean but non attached though being within. There after one must attain the knowledge from the true Guru how to obtain the true lord; how to reach Him (gyan khand). Once one know the path one must strive hard, meditate on Him. It is not a one moment or day's job ; one may has to have to go through this for years or even ages. hard penance is not prescribed by the Gurus. The progress has to be smoothly (in sahj). It is winning His heart which is importatrn to get gurparsad and enter karam khand. Once one is blessed and gets the invitation to enter His domain through anhad naad. He is then tuned to the Shabd and is gradually reaches the Gate of the Lord duly enlightened. At this stage one finds no difference between him and Him. This is the stage of true bliss. get to this stage is not that easy as is pointed out. Merer reasoning gets u no where. One has to meditate on Him relentlessly.
Dr Dalvinder Singh Grewal

Dr Dalvinder Singh Grewal ji,

Guru Fateh.

Would you be kind enough to clarify the following from your lovely article if you do not mind?

I know these stages of Khands are physical stages in Hinduism.

1. Are they physical in Sikhi too?

2. If they are, then what is the difference between the two?

There must be a big difference, otherwise Hinduism and Sikhi become one and the same, hence Guru Nanak would not have felt the need to come with this novice School of Thought.
What do you think?

3. Or could it be that Guru Nanak is using the terms known to the people of that time and meant something totally different, like within-Mann?

I am sure you are aware that Mann is mentioned thousands of times in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

In my opinion, Sikhi is based on the teachings of our Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that gives us all the tools available to lasso what is between our two ears, so that we can relish the only life we know on this physical plane with gusto.

Just thinking aloud. Your input would be of utmost importance, so we can all learn about this beautiful way of life called Sikhi.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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chazSingh

Writer
SPNer
I know these stages of Khands are physical stages in Hinduism.

1. Are they physical in Sikhi too?

2. If they are, then what is the difference between the two?

There must be a big difference otherwise, Hinduism and Sikhi become one and the same, hence Guru Nanak would not have felt the need to come with this novice school of thought.
What do you think?

Interesting questions Tejwant Ji, that have also got me thinking :)

Can you Clarify in what way Hindu's think the Khands are 'physical'

What do you mean when you say physical? do you mean like this world as seen through our physical eyes, ears, mouths and nose?


3. Or could it be that Guru Nanak is using the terms known to the people of that time and meant something totally different, like within-Mann?

I am sure you are aware that Mann is mentioned thousands of times the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

In my opinion, Sikhi is based on the teachings of our Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that gives us all the tools available to lasso what is between our two ears, so that we can relish the only life we know on this physical plane with gusto.

Just thinking aloud. Your input would be of utmost importance, so we can all learn about this beautiful way of life called Sikhi.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

to your second question...
it could be that Guru Nanak dev ji used the same words but to mean something else...

so there you have it...which way is it? to mean the same or mean something different..

for me, i would personally like to find out myself...from my own personal first hand experience... rather than put my faith on "could it be this" or "could it mean that" "maybe he meant it in this way" etc etc..
 

Tejwant Singh

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Interesting questions Tejwant Ji, that have also got me thinking :)

Can you Clarify in what way Hindu's think the Khands are 'physical'

What do you mean when you say physical? do you mean like this world as seen through our physical eyes, ears, mouths and nose?

to your second question...
it could be that Guru Nanak dev ji used the same words but to mean something else...

so there you have it...which way is it? to mean the same or mean something different..

for me, i would personally like to find out myself...from my own personal first hand experience... rather than put my faith on "could it be this" or "could it mean that" "maybe he meant it in this way" etc etc..

Chaz Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Thanks for your interesting queries.

To your first question,Yes. In Hinduism these are Physical Planes.

for me, i would personally like to find out myself...from my own personal first hand experience... rather than put my faith on "could it be this" or "could it mean that" "maybe he meant it in this way" etc etc.

Sorry to say, but I have no idea what you are talking about in above.
How can one experience something without knowing what that thing is all about?
Please elaborate.

For the rest, let's wait for the esteemed writer to respond.

Thanks and regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Harkiran Kaur

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I am sure you are aware that Mann is mentioned thousands of times the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru?

In my opinion, Sikhi is based on the teachings of our Gurus in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that gives us all the tools available to lasso what is between our two ears, so that we can relish the only life we know on this physical plane with gusto.

Just thinking aloud. Your input would be of utmost importance, so we can all learn about this beautiful way of life called Sikhi.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant Ji I know these were not directed at me, but I'd like to respond... in that I know what the difference between Gurmukh and Manmukh are... but rather than explain in my own words, others have so well defined them as per Gurbani already so I will paste a short definition, however the linked article goes much deeper. Are you REALLY sure our purpose is all about relishing this 'material' life and following our mann (mind)??

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart39.htm

Gurmukh

"A Gurmukhs is a virtuous type of person whom the Gurbani calls Divine. He is Spiritually positioned, naturally (Sahaj). Throughout the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Gurbani defines Gurmukhs as Spiritual Beings who live by Gurmat (the Wisdom of the Shabad-Guru).

In nutshell, the Gurmukh is linked to his Mool within (ਮੂਲ, Source, Origin Truth...), and ever remains so; he is contented in all situations (Sach Santokhee); he is the follower of the Truth; his mind is linked to Antar-Aatmaa; his Akal (ਅਕਲ , wisdom, intellect, reason, etc., follows the Gurbani; he restrains his mind instead of following his mind; his state is that of "ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ " - Ik Mani Ik Chiti; he is detached in the midst of Maya - ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚ ਉਦਾਸੀ; he is established in Viveka-budhi - ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਮਤ ਦੀ ਪੂਰੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੈ; he knows all the "Way of the soul" ("ਜਾਨੈ ਆਤਮ ਕੀ ਰਹਤ", ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ, ਅਮਲੀ ਜੀਵਨ, ਹੁਕਮੀ ਜੀਵਨ); he is Jeevan Mukat (living Liberated or Enlightened); he is Aatam or Brahm Giaanee; he is established in Chauthaa Pada or Turiyaa Avasthaa (Tenth Gate, Sahaj Avasthaa - Natural State of Being; Sunn Samaadhi, ਆਤਮਕ ਅਡੋਲਤਾ, Shabad-Surti, etc.), saintly nature even though he may deal with countless unsaintly people...

A Gurmukh is a Self-Realized person, completely free of the false ego-sense (Haume) and its menacing faults (Bikaars: lust, anger, greed,attachment, pride and their countless variations). Since the Gurmukh has killed his false ego-sense (Haume), His mind is Pure (unconditioned; devoid of any "filth" of Bikaars, Maya, ignorance, etc.).

In nutshell, a Gurmukh is a person situated at the platform of Transcendental Consciousness. Hence, he is the Divine Soul, established in his Pure Being (Joti-Svaroopa) within. Internally he has surrendered his false ego-sense to his Mool (Source, Origin...) with one hundred percent involvement of his body, mind and intellect. He has all the Divine Virtues which are found in a godly or a Holy person."

Manmukh

"Manmukh is a material being (egoistic or unenlightened person) as opposed to a Spiritual Being, who does not have natural inclination for Gurmat and Spirituality - he is the mind-willed. People with such materialistic outlook — referred to as Manmukhs in the Gurbani — assert that everlasting happiness is attainable only in acquisition of sense-objects, persuing passions, etc. In other words, a Manmukh is ruled by his conditioned and corrupt sense-blind mind instead of Soul Consciousness. Simply stated, a Manmukh is an ego-being with the following faults: lust, anger, greed, material attachment, pride, envy, stubborn mindedness; along with numerous variations of these. Having conditioned (polluted or filthy) consciousness, he has no understanding of the Naam, Shabad, Hukam (Will), Self, God, Spirit or the Sat Guru. Consequently, he has no understanding of the ultimate purpose of life, his relationship with God, and the Way of God (Gurmat). In this madness and illusion and "I-am-ness" , he cultivates the life of a faithless cynic called Saakat — an unwise and an untrue being.

In short, a Manmukh is a denier of the Truth (ਸਚ); he is disconnected from his Mool (Source, Origin Truth...); his mind escapes through senses and run after sense-objects (relishing physical material life?) or whose Akakal follows his mind's dictates; he is ever uncontented, ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਲ ਜੁੜਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ...), he has no understanding of the Gur-Shabad (Aatm-Giaan, Divine Knowledge of the Gurbani); he is full of the "filth" (of evil passions, Maya, etc.)..."

"In nutshell, anyone who has not realized the Mool within (Joti-Svaroopa, Source, Origin...) alone is a Manmukh. Here Gurbani provides us with a very clear definition as to what constitutes a Manmukh and a Gurmukh. Those in the Shabad, Naam or God Consciousness are true Gurmukh, whilst the rest of us (over 99.9 percent) are just hypocrite, Saakat or Manmukhs engrossed in unenlightened existence of (Maya) - worldly attachments, evil passions, hatred, selfishness, falsehood, meaningless rituals, corruption, frauds, deception, greed, lip worship and varieties of other superficial religious or reactionary spirituality..."
 

Tejwant Singh

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SPNer
Tejwant Ji I know these were not directed at me, but I'd like to respond... in that I know what the difference between Gurmukh and Manmukh are... but rather than explain in my own words, others have so well defined them as per Gurbani already so I will paste a short definition, however the linked article goes much deeper. Are you REALLY sure our purpose is all about relishing this 'material' life and following our mann (mind)??

Akasha ji,

Guru Fateh.

A life of a Sikh in this world is just NOT material as you put it. I am sure you are aware of the MIRI- PIRI concept of Sikhi which Guru Nanak started and Guru Hargobind named it so.

And, to your question?

Yes. I do, because I relish the only life I know in a MIRI- PIRI manner. :)
 
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Harkiran Kaur

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Akasha ji,


Yes. I do, because I relish the only life I know in a MIRI- PIRI manner. :)

Okay so we are getting somewhere... This I would like you to please answer for me: Is it because you have not personally experienced evidence of life outside of the physical? (Meaning that you do not completely write off the idea) or is it that you don't believe in anything beyond this one physical life at all? I have always been a bit confused on this... please elaborate??

Also, how can you on the one hand say that you believe in Miri - Piri aspects of life, and yet, deny the Piri (by stating that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is to be interpreted in purely a physical/material sense? )

Yes I am aware of Miri Piri - and I try to apply it in all that I do. Just because I have had some spiritual experiences which have acquainted me with my spiritual source, doesn't mean I disregard the physical and helping people. As I have said many times, it's only served to make me a better person... not a worse one. However, my ultimate goal is not the physical... I HAVE had evidence of life beyond the physical, so my outlook I hope you can appreciate is different than yours because of this. I do believe in my Divine source....transcendental consciousness, and more than believe I have experienced (at least a tiny bit) of it.
 

Tejwant Singh

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Okay so we are getting somewhere... This I would like you to please answer for me: Is it because you have not personally experienced evidence of life outside of the physical? (Meaning that you do not completely write off the idea) or is it that you don't believe in anything beyond this one physical life at all? I have always been a bit confused on this... please elaborate??

As a Sikh, it is my duty to say that I DO NOT KNOW. And I am not ashamed to say so.

Also, how can you on the one hand say that you believe in Miri - Piri aspects of life, and yet, deny the Piri (by stating that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is to be interpreted in purely a physical/material sense? )

Akasha ji, you love to assume things and it seems that assumptions about others have become your second nature. Using your own words, no offence intended.:)

Please show me my single post where I stated that that you assumed I did. Let's be the Truthseekers as Sikhi demands us to be. In fact I have repeatedly stated that, " I do not know".

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Harkiran Kaur

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As a Sikh, it is my duty to say that I DO NOT KNOW. And I am not ashamed to say so.



Akasha ji, you love to assume things and it seems that assumptions about others have become your second nature. Using your own words, no offence intended.:)

Please show me my single post where I stated that that you assumed I did. Let's be the Truthseekers as Sikhi demands us to be. In fact I have repeatedly stated that, " I do not know".

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh

Thats what it sounded like in your post to Dalvinder Singh Grewel... how yo explained that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is for giving you the tools to harness your mind and relish life (without any mention of spiritual aspects). So no you did not come straight out and say it, but thats how it reads... sorry if you did not mean it that way...
 

Tejwant Singh

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Thats what it sounded like in your post to Dalvinder Singh Grewel... how yo explained that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is for giving you the tools to harness your mind and relish life (without any mention of spiritual aspects). So no you did not come straight out and say it, but thats how it reads... sorry if you did not mean it that way...

One more assumption on your part as usual, but I am not offended by it. :)
 

kggr001

SPNer
Akasha ji, I believe that whatever reincarnation exists or not is irrelevant. It's not like someone who believes in reincarnation crosses the worldy ocean, we've to realize the illusion, and live in the truth.

Without realization one can't live in truth.

Believing in reincarnation won't do any good beside reminding us that we should value our human life and that we've limited time which we shouldn't waste.

I personally do believe in reincarnation since Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji accepts it. And I've accepted Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the absolute truth a while ago, it's the source where I get my Gyan from, it's my dharma and I try to base my Karma also on the teaching of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as teacher and parent, as student and child I've to try to follow the teachings and live according to them. living in the hukam of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the same as accepting the hukam of the lord. Since Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is about realization and accepting the hukam of the lord.
 

Sherdil

Writer
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Tejwant Ji I know these were not directed at me, but I'd like to respond... in that I know what the difference between Gurmukh and Manmukh are... but rather than explain in my own words, others have so well defined them as per Gurbani already so I will paste a short definition, however the linked article goes much deeper. Are you REALLY sure our purpose is all about relishing this 'material' life and following our mann (mind)??

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart39.htm

Gurmukh

"A Gurmukhs is a virtuous type of person whom the Gurbani calls Divine. He is Spiritually positioned, naturally (Sahaj). Throughout the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Gurbani defines Gurmukhs as Spiritual Beings who live by Gurmat (the Wisdom of the Shabad-Guru).

In nutshell, the Gurmukh is linked to his Mool within (ਮੂਲ, Source, Origin Truth...), and ever remains so; he is contented in all situations (Sach Santokhee); he is the follower of the Truth; his mind is linked to Antar-Aatmaa; his Akal (ਅਕਲ , wisdom, intellect, reason, etc., follows the Gurbani; he restrains his mind instead of following his mind; his state is that of "ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ " - Ik Mani Ik Chiti; he is detached in the midst of Maya - ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚ ਉਦਾਸੀ; he is established in Viveka-budhi - ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਮਤ ਦੀ ਪੂਰੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਹੈ; he knows all the "Way of the soul" ("ਜਾਨੈ ਆਤਮ ਕੀ ਰਹਤ", ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ, ਅਮਲੀ ਜੀਵਨ, ਹੁਕਮੀ ਜੀਵਨ); he is Jeevan Mukat (living Liberated or Enlightened); he is Aatam or Brahm Giaanee; he is established in Chauthaa Pada or Turiyaa Avasthaa (Tenth Gate, Sahaj Avasthaa - Natural State of Being; Sunn Samaadhi, ਆਤਮਕ ਅਡੋਲਤਾ, Shabad-Surti, etc.), saintly nature even though he may deal with countless unsaintly people...

A Gurmukh is a Self-Realized person, completely free of the false ego-sense (Haume) and its menacing faults (Bikaars: lust, anger, greed,attachment, pride and their countless variations). Since the Gurmukh has killed his false ego-sense (Haume), His mind is Pure (unconditioned; devoid of any "filth" of Bikaars, Maya, ignorance, etc.).

In nutshell, a Gurmukh is a person situated at the platform of Transcendental Consciousness. Hence, he is the Divine Soul, established in his Pure Being (Joti-Svaroopa) within. Internally he has surrendered his false ego-sense to his Mool (Source, Origin...) with one hundred percent involvement of his body, mind and intellect. He has all the Divine Virtues which are found in a godly or a Holy person."

Manmukh

"Manmukh is a material being (egoistic or unenlightened person) as opposed to a Spiritual Being, who does not have natural inclination for Gurmat and Spirituality - he is the mind-willed. People with such materialistic outlook — referred to as Manmukhs in the Gurbani — assert that everlasting happiness is attainable only in acquisition of sense-objects, persuing passions, etc. In other words, a Manmukh is ruled by his conditioned and corrupt sense-blind mind instead of Soul Consciousness. Simply stated, a Manmukh is an ego-being with the following faults: lust, anger, greed, material attachment, pride, envy, stubborn mindedness; along with numerous variations of these. Having conditioned (polluted or filthy) consciousness, he has no understanding of the Naam, Shabad, Hukam (Will), Self, God, Spirit or the Sat Guru. Consequently, he has no understanding of the ultimate purpose of life, his relationship with God, and the Way of God (Gurmat). In this madness and illusion and "I-am-ness" , he cultivates the life of a faithless cynic called Saakat — an unwise and an untrue being.

In short, a Manmukh is a denier of the Truth (ਸਚ); he is disconnected from his Mool (Source, Origin Truth...); his mind escapes through senses and run after sense-objects (relishing physical material life?) or whose Akakal follows his mind's dictates; he is ever uncontented, ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਲ ਜੁੜਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ...), he has no understanding of the Gur-Shabad (Aatm-Giaan, Divine Knowledge of the Gurbani); he is full of the "filth" (of evil passions, Maya, etc.)..."

"In nutshell, anyone who has not realized the Mool within (Joti-Svaroopa, Source, Origin...) alone is a Manmukh. Here Gurbani provides us with a very clear definition as to what constitutes a Manmukh and a Gurmukh. Those in the Shabad, Naam or God Consciousness are true Gurmukh, whilst the rest of us (over 99.9 percent) are just hypocrite, Saakat or Manmukhs engrossed in unenlightened existence of (Maya) - worldly attachments, evil passions, hatred, selfishness, falsehood, meaningless rituals, corruption, frauds, deception, greed, lip worship and varieties of other superficial religious or reactionary spirituality..."

Gurmukh is someone who follows the guru (the teachings in GGS).

Manmukh is someone who doesn't follow the guru, but rather follows their own mann (mind).

Everyone here is Gurmukh because everyone is studying gurbani and trying to apply the teachings to their lives.

What you are describing is Jivan Mukht (someone who has attained liberation).
 

Harkiran Kaur

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Gurmukh is someone who follows the guru (the teachings in GGS).

Manmukh is someone who doesn't follow the guru, but rather follows their own mann (mind).

Everyone here is Gurmukh because everyone is studying gurbani and trying to apply the teachings to their lives.

What you are describing is Jivan Mukht (someone who has attained liberation).

Isn't 'following your own mind' and not SGGS the same as misinterpreting SGGS, especially when it's being interpreted to be referring only to the one thing that it shouldn't be - the mind??

Tejwant Singh said:
One more assumption on your part as usual, but I am not offended by it.

Good... because I didn't mean to offend you... I am just trying to fully understand your position.

So then, if you agree that you do not know... you can't entirely dismiss those of us who who have had such experiences. Not knowing, or not experiencing it for yourself is not the same as outright disbelief. Am I understanding your position correctly?

And if this is true, then surely you can think that maybe possibly that SGGS could have both messages in the same shabad, using the same words and the same metaphors... could not both messages be in there... one pertaining to life on the physical plane, and also message pertaining to spiritual realization? Certainly that would not seem 'too' far fetched when we are as you said, supposed to live by both aspects of miri and piri?

Remember, that I have never dismissed that SGGS may have some meaning pertaining to the physical existence... I always said that BOTH messages are perhaps there, and that it was written that way on purpose.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
I was just about to question the validity of Gurbani.org, (as is my want), but you have discovered a possible little gem here, no agenda, no bias, I enjoyed it and will be be reading it some more. (the frog king is happy!)

So then, if you agree that you do not know... you can't entirely dismiss those of us who who have had such experiences. Not knowing, or not experiencing it for yourself is not the same as outright disbelief. Am I understanding your position correctly?

I have never experienced sex with a gnome, I am still happy to dismiss it lol
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Akasha ji writes:
So then, if you agree that you do not know... you can't entirely dismiss those of us who who have had such experiences. Not knowing, or not experiencing it for yourself is not the same as outright disbelief. Am I understanding your position correctly?

If you had read my posts on this subject, then you would have noticed that I repeatedly said that the personal experience is the personal one and hence can not be shared nor can it be replicated by anyone else. I responded in the same manner when you talked about love.

And if this is true, then surely you can think that maybe possibly that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji could have both messages in the same shabad, using the same words and the same metaphors... could not both messages be in there... one pertaining to life on the physical plane, and also message pertaining to spiritual realization? Certainly that would not seem 'too' far fetched when we are as you said, supposed to live by both aspects of miri and piri?

Akasha ji, I would urge you again to read my posts regarding the subject please.

Remember, that I have never dismissed that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji may have some meaning pertaining to the physical existence... I always said that BOTH messages are perhaps there, and that it was written that way on purpose.

I am aware of that. :)

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

chazSingh

Writer
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I have never experienced sex with a gnome, I am still happy to dismiss it lol

that't not the same thing..

if someone said "the apple i ate yesterday was very sweet and delisious and was joyous to eat"...

would you dismiss that persons experience? on the basis that you may believe apples to be sour only?

That is what akasha is saying...

if someoe says "i have heard the Anhad Naad and it was mesmerizing, i cannot describe it's effects on me and it was a truley astonishing sound and experience"

and you say "thats impossible, the anhad sound is not something we hear it is something else..."


who is right and who is wrong..

both people are talking from their own experiences..

one has heard something and based on descriptions on Gurbani about the effects of Anhad Naad, they have concluded that what they heard was the Anhad Naad.

The other hasn't heard anything therefore they stick with what they know through study of Gurbani based on their own experience thus Far.

But we all like to come onto this forum and say "we are right and you are wrong" :)

I can personally conclude that many things in Gurbani that i thought were just metaphors are in fact TRUE...but i can't prove that to you nor anyone else...just like i 'enquired' and experienced myself, others need to also...until then me you, tejwant, akasha etc will all disagree on many things..
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
that't not the same thing..

pleasure is subjective, allow me to explain

if someone said "the apple i ate yesterday was very sweet and delisious and was joyous to eat"...

would you dismiss that persons experience? on the basis that you may believe apples to be sour only?

I hate lassi, not sure why, I don't mind kachi lassi, but full blown lassi, nope I am not a great fan of it, my stepsson, who is english, loves the stuff, we went out the other day, have some lassi he says, nope I hate it, he drinks some, ahh but its delicious, how can anyone not like it, uhmm well, I do not like it, it has a funny taste, and so on. I know what lassi tastes like, I do not like the taste.

However, my stepson loves it, and I accept he loves it, I would not waste my time telling him it tastes awful, because it only tastes awful to ME! When have any of us dismissed anothers experience? I may attempt to be witty about it, but the truth is anothers experience is anothers, I would certainly dismiss any thought of me doing it, but if they wish to do it, good luck, I do not think, in any serious tone, I have urged my own thoughts on another, or my own philosophies. Its not for me, but noji, I have never dismissed.

if someoe says "i have heard the Anhad Naad and it was mesmerizing, i cannot describe it's effects on me and it was a truley astonishing sound and experience"

I would say good luck to you, personally I think your bonkers, but good luck to you


and you say "thats impossible, the anhad sound is not something we hear it is something else..."


who is right and who is wrong..

but I have never said any of this, the truth of the matter is that if you guys hear and do weird stuff, then thats fine, I cannot explain out of body experiences, or noises, or whatever, and to be honest, I have no interest in it, so carry on, I am comfortable enough in my own weirdness to be comfortable with anothers, no one is right and no one is wrong, we are just all doing our own thing and coming together on a forum.

However, what I do object to, is when folks pass of their own weirdness as word, I take great pains not to, but I am getting rather fed up of all sorts of Vedic concepts being taken as Sikh, you have an opinion, fine state it, debate it great, but don't start preaching it.

one has heard something and based on descriptions on Gurbani about the effects of Anhad Naad, they have concluded that what they heard was the Anhad Naad.

The other hasn't heard anything therefore they stick with what they know through study of Gurbani based on their own experience thus Far.

But we all like to come onto this forum and say "we are right and you are wrong" :)

but we dont, you are right and I am right, you are right for you, and I am right for me, I keep coming back to the same point, if some of us choose to play devils advocate and push for answers to questions what is wrong with that? Are we questioning it? Damn right! are we lauding our own opinion and pushing that as fact? not usually.

can personally conclude that many things in Gurbani that i thought were just metaphors are in fact TRUE...but i can't prove that to you nor anyone else...just like i 'enquired' and experienced myself, others need to also...until then me you, tejwant, akasha etc will all disagree on many things..<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

This is very simple, do I believe that you have the experiences you do, YES, Do I believe Akashaji has out of body experiences, YES, do I have any interest in this, NO!

Am I interested in converting you both so you lose these experiences, NO! Will I continue to make fun of them, YES, can we all learn from each other, hopefully!
 

kggr001

SPNer
I would say good luck to you, personally I think your bonkers, but good luck to you

However, what I do object to, is when folks pass of their own weirdness as word, I take great pains not to, but I am getting rather fed up of all sorts of Vedic concepts being taken as Sikh, you have an opinion, fine state it, debate it great, but don't start preaching it.

This is very simple, do I believe that you have the experiences you do, YES, Do I believe Akashaji has out of body experiences, YES, do I have any interest in this, NO!

Am I interested in converting you both so you lose these experiences, NO! Will I continue to make fun of them, YES, can we all learn from each other, hopefully!

Harry ji, I believe that a Gursikh shouldn't make Joke/Fun of anyone. seeking, debating, preaching, and most importantly listening is in my eyes duty of every Sikh.

Also I've noticed that most people which you find that they follow Vedic teachings try to compare there expieriences with expieriences/states described in the SGGS ji.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Harry ji, I believe that a Gursikh shouldn't make Joke/Fun of anyone

why not, the tickling stick is mightier than the sword, in any case, our Gurus were renowned for their wit and humour. To be in good spirits with a good humour is in my view, very Gursikh behaviour.

Also I've noticed that most people which you find that they follow Vedic teachings try to compare there expieriences with expieriences/states described in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

to what end?
 

kggr001

SPNer
why not, the tickling stick is mightier than the sword, in any case, our Gurus were renowned for their wit and humour. To be in good spirits with a good humour is in my view, very Gursikh behaviour.

Show me where Guru's made joke about others experiences? If i recall correctly Guru's where beyond all this. Afterall these are the expieriences they are describing in there book.

to what end?

Harry ji, I can't talk for them, however I strive to be in the state in which Guru's and Bhagats were in. Because I've seen/experienced the beauty of it by reading SGGS ji, you've told me before that you're not looking for that state and I respect that.

In general if someone doesn't wanted to be preached it's our duty as gursikh to listen to that person and stop bothering that person. Forgot to add this in previous post.
 

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