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What Does Term 'Excommunication' Mean In Light Of Guru Nanak's Philosophy?
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<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 120750" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>The thread topic is inspired by questions raised in another thread "Action Against Those Honoring Ragi Likely."</p><p></p><p>The separation that Guru Nanak speaks of is spiritual separation -- in one sense one is ex-communicated or beyond the zone of contact and has not attached to the Guru's feet. Yet the possibility is ever present that one can become re-connected. One can be in re-communication.</p><p></p><p>Ang 1426 Guru Arjan dev ji</p><p></p><p><table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਵਂ*ੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਵਹਣਿ ਲੁੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੰਦੜੀ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੬॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">dhoojai bhaavanaee naanakaa vehan lurrhandharree jaae ||16||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">In the love of duality, O Nanak, the mortals are being washed downstream. ||16||</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਤਿਹਟੜੇ ਬਾਜਾਰ ਸਉਦਾ ਕਰਨਿ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">thihattarrae baajaar soudhaa karan vanajaariaa ||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">In the markets and bazaars of the three qualities, the merchants make their deals.</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਸਚੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਜਿਨੀ ਲਦਿਆ ਸੇ ਸਚੜੇ ਪਾਸਾਰ ॥੧੭॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">sach vakhar jinee ladhiaa sae sacharrae paasaar ||17||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">Those who load the true merchandise are the true traders. ||17||</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਪੰਥਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨ ਜਾਣਈ ਭੂਲੀ ਫਿਰੈ ਗਵਾਰਿ ॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">panthhaa praem n jaanee bhoolee firai gavaar ||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">Those who do not know the way of love are foolish; they wander lost and confused.</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਇ ਕੈ ਪਉਦੇ ਨਰਕਿ ਅੰਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਰ ॥੧੮॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">naanak har bisaraae kai poudhae narak andhhyaar ||18||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">O Nanak, forgetting the Lord, they fall into the deep, dark pit of hell. ||18||</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਮਾਇਆ ਮਨਹੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਮਾਂਗੈ ਦੰਮਾਂ ਦੰਮ ॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">maaeiaa manahu n veesarai maangai dhanmaan dhanm ||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">In his mind, the mortal does not forget Maya; he begs for more and more wealth.</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਹੀ ਕਰੰਮਿ ॥੧੯॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">so prabh chith n aavee naanak nehee karanm ||19||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">That God does not even come into his consciousness; O Nanak, it is not in his karma. ||19||</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਤਿਚਰੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਥੁੜਂ*ੀਦੋ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਆਪਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">thichar mool n thhurranaeedho jichar aap kirapaal ||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">The mortal does not run out of capital, as long as the Lord Himself is merciful.</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"><span style="color: red"> 5</span></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਸਬਦੁ ਅਖੁਟੁ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਖਾਹਿ ਖਰਚਿ ਧਨੁ ਮਾਲੁ ॥੨੦॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">sabadh akhutt baabaa naanakaa khaahi kharach dhhan maal ||20||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">The Word of the Shabad is Guru Nanak's inexhaustible treasure; this wealth and capital never runs out, no matter how much it is spent and consumed. ||20||</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਖੰਭ ਵਿਕਾਂਦੜੇ ਜੇ ਲਹਾਂ ਘਿੰਨਾ ਸਾਵੀ ਤੋਲਿ ॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">khanbh vikaandharrae jae lehaan ghinnaa saavee thol ||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">If I could find wings for sale, I would buy them with an equal weight of my flesh.</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਤੰਨਿ ਜੜਾਂਈ ਆਪਣੈ ਲਹਾਂ ਸੁ ਸਜਣੁ ਟੋਲਿ ॥੨੧॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">thann jarraanee aapanai lehaan s sajan ttol ||21||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">I would attach them to my body, and seek out and find my Friend. ||21||</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਸਜਣੁ ਸਚਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾਂ ਦੈ ਸਾਹੁ ॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">sajan sachaa paathisaahu sir saahaan dhai saahu ||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">My Friend is the True Supreme King, the King over the heads of kings.</p><p></td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"></p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਸਿ ਬਹਿਠਿਆ ਸੋਹੀਐ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥੨੨॥ </p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">jis paas behithiaa soheeai sabhanaan dhaa vaesaahu ||22||</p><p></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">Sitting by His side, we are exalted and beautified; He is the Support of all. ||22||</td></tr></tbody></table></p><p>Can then in good conscience one human being disconnect another human being from contact with sangat wherein one is guided to the Satguru I am raising this as a moral and ethical question, not as a legalistic question.</p><p></p><p>Put differently: Are there any values taught to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib that would justify excommunication?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 120750, member: 35"] The thread topic is inspired by questions raised in another thread "Action Against Those Honoring Ragi Likely." The separation that Guru Nanak speaks of is spiritual separation -- in one sense one is ex-communicated or beyond the zone of contact and has not attached to the Guru's feet. Yet the possibility is ever present that one can become re-connected. One can be in re-communication. Ang 1426 Guru Arjan dev ji <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਵਂ*ੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਵਹਣਿ ਲੁੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੰਦੜੀ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੬॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">dhoojai bhaavanaee naanakaa vehan lurrhandharree jaae ||16|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">In the love of duality, O Nanak, the mortals are being washed downstream. ||16|| </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਤਿਹਟੜੇ ਬਾਜਾਰ ਸਉਦਾ ਕਰਨਿ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">thihattarrae baajaar soudhaa karan vanajaariaa || </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">In the markets and bazaars of the three qualities, the merchants make their deals. </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਸਚੁ ਵਖਰੁ ਜਿਨੀ ਲਦਿਆ ਸੇ ਸਚੜੇ ਪਾਸਾਰ ॥੧੭॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">sach vakhar jinee ladhiaa sae sacharrae paasaar ||17|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">Those who load the true merchandise are the true traders. ||17|| </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਪੰਥਾ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨ ਜਾਣਈ ਭੂਲੀ ਫਿਰੈ ਗਵਾਰਿ ॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">panthhaa praem n jaanee bhoolee firai gavaar || </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">Those who do not know the way of love are foolish; they wander lost and confused. </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਇ ਕੈ ਪਉਦੇ ਨਰਕਿ ਅੰਧ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਰ ॥੧੮॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">naanak har bisaraae kai poudhae narak andhhyaar ||18|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">O Nanak, forgetting the Lord, they fall into the deep, dark pit of hell. ||18|| </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਮਾਇਆ ਮਨਹੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਮਾਂਗੈ ਦੰਮਾਂ ਦੰਮ ॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">maaeiaa manahu n veesarai maangai dhanmaan dhanm || </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">In his mind, the mortal does not forget Maya; he begs for more and more wealth. </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਹੀ ਕਰੰਮਿ ॥੧੯॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">so prabh chith n aavee naanak nehee karanm ||19|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">That God does not even come into his consciousness; O Nanak, it is not in his karma. ||19|| </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਤਿਚਰੁ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਥੁੜਂ*ੀਦੋ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਆਪਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">thichar mool n thhurranaeedho jichar aap kirapaal || </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">The mortal does not run out of capital, as long as the Lord Himself is merciful. </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader">[COLOR=red] 5[/COLOR] </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਸਬਦੁ ਅਖੁਟੁ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਖਾਹਿ ਖਰਚਿ ਧਨੁ ਮਾਲੁ ॥੨੦॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">sabadh akhutt baabaa naanakaa khaahi kharach dhhan maal ||20|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">The Word of the Shabad is Guru Nanak's inexhaustible treasure; this wealth and capital never runs out, no matter how much it is spent and consumed. ||20|| </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਖੰਭ ਵਿਕਾਂਦੜੇ ਜੇ ਲਹਾਂ ਘਿੰਨਾ ਸਾਵੀ ਤੋਲਿ ॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">khanbh vikaandharrae jae lehaan ghinnaa saavee thol || </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">If I could find wings for sale, I would buy them with an equal weight of my flesh. </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਤੰਨਿ ਜੜਾਂਈ ਆਪਣੈ ਲਹਾਂ ਸੁ ਸਜਣੁ ਟੋਲਿ ॥੨੧॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">thann jarraanee aapanai lehaan s sajan ttol ||21|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">I would attach them to my body, and seek out and find my Friend. ||21|| </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="ggs">ਸਜਣੁ ਸਚਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾਂ ਦੈ ਸਾਹੁ ॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="subhead">sajan sachaa paathisaahu sir saahaan dhai saahu || </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffffec"><td class="shlok">My Friend is the True Supreme King, the King over the heads of kings. </td></tr><tr><td class="rmenuheader"> </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="ggs">ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਸਿ ਬਹਿਠਿਆ ਸੋਹੀਐ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥੨੨॥ </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="subhead">jis paas behithiaa soheeai sabhanaan dhaa vaesaahu ||22|| </td></tr><tr bgcolor="#ffecec"><td class="shlok">Sitting by His side, we are exalted and beautified; He is the Support of all. ||22||</td></tr></tbody></table> Can then in good conscience one human being disconnect another human being from contact with sangat wherein one is guided to the Satguru I am raising this as a moral and ethical question, not as a legalistic question. Put differently: Are there any values taught to us in Sri Guru Granth Sahib that would justify excommunication? [/QUOTE]
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What Does Term 'Excommunication' Mean In Light Of Guru Nanak's Philosophy?
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