☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikh Youth
Wake Up Call - 2
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="S|kH" data-source="post: 64434" data-attributes="member: 217"><p>Seems like your major issue is -- why haven't Sikhs done anything to teach others about the identity?</p><p></p><p>This is a bigger question that has a lot of inter-related subjects. For example, most Sikhs themselves do not keep the identity, so the few that try to educate are left with thin support. So then the question becomes, Why have the Sikhs given up so quickly when we have a history of war and staying "true", and this leads to no one in the western world knowing what a Sikh is ..</p><p></p><p>The problem I see with this question is that you wish for an entire community to work completely together for a community goal without bias. Everyone has an individual economic drive which leads them, and thats why Sikhism's identity will wash away. You can never have people rise up and keep it and educate others on the identity if it is no benefit to the individual. You want the individual to sacrifice his personal success or economic benefit for a preservation of culture on a community level. </p><p></p><p>Do I think it can be accomplished? Yes, because human beings are a social science and not "hard" science like physics, so the rules can change. Will it happen as the world progresses? I highly doubt it. </p><p></p><p>Unless we go through a hardship on a community scale which trickles down to effect all of us individually, then we will realize the commonality between all of us and many Sikhs will resort back to preserving the culture they came from. If this doesn't happen, or they do not feel the individual impact, nothing will happen. </p><p></p><p>For example, I'll take the devils advocate role :</p><p>Sikhs in punjab were recently at a huge problem with Dera Saucha Sauda. I was born, and raised in America.</p><p>Does the Dera Saucha Sauda effect me? No.</p><p>Does the issue with them effect Sikhs globally, individually, and economically ? No, it only effects Sikhs in India who deal with them on a day to day basis. </p><p>Have I done anything substantial to ease the situation in Punjab during the collision? No.</p><p>Did I still go to school in America on those days Punjab was bandh and riots started? Yes.</p><p>Why ? Because a collision with some other foreign religious group has no effect on me.</p><p>Do I care about the issue? Yes. Did I read up on it and discuss it and my ideas with other Sikhs? Yes, but that's all that can happen. </p><p></p><p>Do Sikhs in India care about mistaken identity ? No. </p><p>Do Sikhs in India care about the French Sikhs who can't go to school because they wear a turban ? No. (More Sikhs in Indian schools are now openly cutting their hair)</p><p></p><p>Can this change? I highly doubt it.</p><p></p><p>The thing is -- Why should one person care more about someone else in the other side of the world than his issues in front of him ? Religion was the vehicle to accomplish this task, but is now an out-dated system. We need a new system that unites human beings regardless of race/religion, and to get them to feel connected to a person in a developing nation who has no individual economic effect on them. </p><p></p><p>You want Sikhs in America to work together to stop mistaken identity, but that won't happen. To do that the community needs to keep the identity and work for a community goal which has absolutely no economic benefit for the community or the individual, hence why NOTHING will ever happen about it. (I actually see nothing wrong in this, you may, as your the religious observer). </p><p></p><p>If you do want to play this game -- try to motivate me to keep the identity without quoting religious text or saying "The Gurus did it, you must so!" or historical precedent, and then try to motivate me to care that others should keep it so that we may work together as a block and educate the western masses about the identity when that has no logical benefit to me. [i.e. you can not say the benefit to me is "your getting closer to god/guru"] </p><p></p><p>And there lies another inter-related issue, we're moving to a new era away from god/guru, as he is no longer a strong enough benefit or myth to help us today. </p><p></p><p>Now, since a lot of people misconstrue my posts, I'll say this -- The above are not my personal views. </p><p></p><p> As the world becomes one culture, any unique physical identity which has no individual or economic benefit will disappear unless it is genetic. (THINK -- science, darwinism, remaining fit, all relates to the above sentence becoming true)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="S|kH, post: 64434, member: 217"] Seems like your major issue is -- why haven't Sikhs done anything to teach others about the identity? This is a bigger question that has a lot of inter-related subjects. For example, most Sikhs themselves do not keep the identity, so the few that try to educate are left with thin support. So then the question becomes, Why have the Sikhs given up so quickly when we have a history of war and staying "true", and this leads to no one in the western world knowing what a Sikh is .. The problem I see with this question is that you wish for an entire community to work completely together for a community goal without bias. Everyone has an individual economic drive which leads them, and thats why Sikhism's identity will wash away. You can never have people rise up and keep it and educate others on the identity if it is no benefit to the individual. You want the individual to sacrifice his personal success or economic benefit for a preservation of culture on a community level. Do I think it can be accomplished? Yes, because human beings are a social science and not "hard" science like physics, so the rules can change. Will it happen as the world progresses? I highly doubt it. Unless we go through a hardship on a community scale which trickles down to effect all of us individually, then we will realize the commonality between all of us and many Sikhs will resort back to preserving the culture they came from. If this doesn't happen, or they do not feel the individual impact, nothing will happen. For example, I'll take the devils advocate role : Sikhs in punjab were recently at a huge problem with Dera Saucha Sauda. I was born, and raised in America. Does the Dera Saucha Sauda effect me? No. Does the issue with them effect Sikhs globally, individually, and economically ? No, it only effects Sikhs in India who deal with them on a day to day basis. Have I done anything substantial to ease the situation in Punjab during the collision? No. Did I still go to school in America on those days Punjab was bandh and riots started? Yes. Why ? Because a collision with some other foreign religious group has no effect on me. Do I care about the issue? Yes. Did I read up on it and discuss it and my ideas with other Sikhs? Yes, but that's all that can happen. Do Sikhs in India care about mistaken identity ? No. Do Sikhs in India care about the French Sikhs who can't go to school because they wear a turban ? No. (More Sikhs in Indian schools are now openly cutting their hair) Can this change? I highly doubt it. The thing is -- Why should one person care more about someone else in the other side of the world than his issues in front of him ? Religion was the vehicle to accomplish this task, but is now an out-dated system. We need a new system that unites human beings regardless of race/religion, and to get them to feel connected to a person in a developing nation who has no individual economic effect on them. You want Sikhs in America to work together to stop mistaken identity, but that won't happen. To do that the community needs to keep the identity and work for a community goal which has absolutely no economic benefit for the community or the individual, hence why NOTHING will ever happen about it. (I actually see nothing wrong in this, you may, as your the religious observer). If you do want to play this game -- try to motivate me to keep the identity without quoting religious text or saying "The Gurus did it, you must so!" or historical precedent, and then try to motivate me to care that others should keep it so that we may work together as a block and educate the western masses about the identity when that has no logical benefit to me. [i.e. you can not say the benefit to me is "your getting closer to god/guru"] And there lies another inter-related issue, we're moving to a new era away from god/guru, as he is no longer a strong enough benefit or myth to help us today. Now, since a lot of people misconstrue my posts, I'll say this -- The above are not my personal views. As the world becomes one culture, any unique physical identity which has no individual or economic benefit will disappear unless it is genetic. (THINK -- science, darwinism, remaining fit, all relates to the above sentence becoming true) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikh Youth
Wake Up Call - 2
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top