☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Video Of The Day - Kachi Bani - Dr Sukhpreet Singh Udhoke
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Admin" data-source="post: 214637" data-attributes="member: 1"><p>Before I respond, I agree with Original ji that we are, indeed, not debating the right subject! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[USER=21905]@Balbir27[/USER] Ji,</p><p></p><p>Thank you for taking your precious time to explain your reservations...</p><p></p><p>My sincere apologies for attributing more importance to those two ("sources") than they actually deserved. </p><p></p><p>In the context of judging Dr. Udoke, in those two "sources", the only information that construed a "resource" was the mention of "Ladaakhi Letter of Agreement", which clearly seems to corroborate the views of Dr. Udoke. Rest of the information on those two "sources" is nothing more than mere POVs. IMHO, a collection of POVs does not construe a "resource".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As already stated above, the only "reliable" information in those two "sources", was the mention of "Ladaakhi Letter of Agreement". In the context of this discussion, I would construe it as a reliable "resource" unless another verifiable "resource" to the contrary is presented. The question of How, Whose & What does not hold any validity because we have a reliable "resource" at our disposal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most respectfully, just because everyone else does it, does not make it a right precedent to follow... An expected level of collective responsibility is expected from all of the SPNers...</p><p></p><p>For example, SPN has been advocating, since inception, to discuss full shabds in Guru Granth Sahib to derive the real meaning of the shabd while corroborating our statements in a discussion but hardly anyone follows it... Some of the senior respected members ignore this rule blatantly on this forum but it does not make it right.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In the context of this discussion, which is whether Dr. Udoke is distorting Sikh history or not, the 'source(s)' are debatable [<em>open to discussion or argument.</em>], the views (POVs) are also debatable as the information provided in these views is also debatable but the resource ["Ladaakhi Letter of Agreement"] is not because it holds the Truth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nowhere I stated that SPN is a "resource" not did I ever mention anywhere that only SPN portrays the Truth.</p><p></p><p>I stated "I would rather listen to Dr. Udoke than those bunch of juvenile wannabes at SA." I completely stand by my statement because we have a reliable "resource". In this context, unless, someone can present a verifiable reliable "resource" to the contrary, the information presented to us from a currently reliable resource construes a Truth. [my POV]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>POVs or opinions hold little merit, if we do have a verifiable "reliable resource". In this context, we do have a reliable "resource", which takes a personal bias out of the equation.</p><p></p><p>or perhaps, you can expound a little on: What <em>is</em> reliability?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would never say anything like it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your statement has a false premise. Truth can never be covered-up... [my POV]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There can only but One Truth, rest are just POVs based on <em>life's experiences.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not sure... our own judgements are influenced by our lives experiences, which actually may or may not reveal the Truth. [my POV]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, we are 100% in agreement!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, Sikhi is all about exploring and evolving...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Due to our perceptions and prejudices, in that weak personal moment, we all become one of those blind men trying to discover the truth of what is an elephant.</p><p></p><p>Most respectfully, in this context, let us consider one of your sources: [SA] ... Apparently, you did not read the "source" in its entirety before posting here at SPN. Perhaps, you may have already adjudged Dr. Udoke in your POV as being a person who is distorting Sikh history.</p><p></p><p>So, all that mattered to you at that weak personal moment, was to supply a source, which had some POVs discrediting Dr. Udoke, without being aware that one of posts had that "reliable" information, which you were seeking at first place. What is appreciable is that being a Sikh, you revisited the "source", which revealed the reliable "resource" clearly available in that source.</p><p></p><p>We should definitely explore all the possibilities with an open frame of mind. Truth transcends any personal prejudices. POVs hold little merit when faced with the Truth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Gaining knowledge is an eternal quest. But how may one know that s/he have gained knowledge of all the parts?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I truly appreciate your quest for gaining information. Had you gained the knowledge of that "resource" before posting your reservations against Dr. Udoke, we would not be having this discussion. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Just to reiterate, I am supporting Dr. Udoke in the context of this discussion. Actually, the credit goes to the person, who took the initiative to find and reproduce a reliable "resource".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The intent of providing you this link was only to keep the discussion focused on janamsakhis in a dedicated thread on janamsakhis.</p><p></p><p>The authenticity of Sakhis can only be corroborated against the litmus test of Gurmat Values and Principles laid down in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru. There can be no other more reliable "resource" to corroborate the authenticity of the Sakhis as true events or not...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely, I could not have said it in any other better way possible! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Please excuse my limited English diction... No offense intended...</p><p></p><p>Bhul chuk maaf</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Admin, post: 214637, member: 1"] Before I respond, I agree with Original ji that we are, indeed, not debating the right subject! :) [USER=21905]@Balbir27[/USER] Ji, Thank you for taking your precious time to explain your reservations... My sincere apologies for attributing more importance to those two ("sources") than they actually deserved. In the context of judging Dr. Udoke, in those two "sources", the only information that construed a "resource" was the mention of "Ladaakhi Letter of Agreement", which clearly seems to corroborate the views of Dr. Udoke. Rest of the information on those two "sources" is nothing more than mere POVs. IMHO, a collection of POVs does not construe a "resource". As already stated above, the only "reliable" information in those two "sources", was the mention of "Ladaakhi Letter of Agreement". In the context of this discussion, I would construe it as a reliable "resource" unless another verifiable "resource" to the contrary is presented. The question of How, Whose & What does not hold any validity because we have a reliable "resource" at our disposal. Most respectfully, just because everyone else does it, does not make it a right precedent to follow... An expected level of collective responsibility is expected from all of the SPNers... For example, SPN has been advocating, since inception, to discuss full shabds in Guru Granth Sahib to derive the real meaning of the shabd while corroborating our statements in a discussion but hardly anyone follows it... Some of the senior respected members ignore this rule blatantly on this forum but it does not make it right. In the context of this discussion, which is whether Dr. Udoke is distorting Sikh history or not, the 'source(s)' are debatable [[I]open to discussion or argument.[/I]], the views (POVs) are also debatable as the information provided in these views is also debatable but the resource ["Ladaakhi Letter of Agreement"] is not because it holds the Truth. Nowhere I stated that SPN is a "resource" not did I ever mention anywhere that only SPN portrays the Truth. I stated "I would rather listen to Dr. Udoke than those bunch of juvenile wannabes at SA." I completely stand by my statement because we have a reliable "resource". In this context, unless, someone can present a verifiable reliable "resource" to the contrary, the information presented to us from a currently reliable resource construes a Truth. [my POV] POVs or opinions hold little merit, if we do have a verifiable "reliable resource". In this context, we do have a reliable "resource", which takes a personal bias out of the equation. or perhaps, you can expound a little on: What [I]is[/I] reliability? I would never say anything like it. Your statement has a false premise. Truth can never be covered-up... [my POV] There can only but One Truth, rest are just POVs based on [I]life's experiences.[/I] Not sure... our own judgements are influenced by our lives experiences, which actually may or may not reveal the Truth. [my POV] Yes, we are 100% in agreement! Yes, Sikhi is all about exploring and evolving... Due to our perceptions and prejudices, in that weak personal moment, we all become one of those blind men trying to discover the truth of what is an elephant. Most respectfully, in this context, let us consider one of your sources: [SA] ... Apparently, you did not read the "source" in its entirety before posting here at SPN. Perhaps, you may have already adjudged Dr. Udoke in your POV as being a person who is distorting Sikh history. So, all that mattered to you at that weak personal moment, was to supply a source, which had some POVs discrediting Dr. Udoke, without being aware that one of posts had that "reliable" information, which you were seeking at first place. What is appreciable is that being a Sikh, you revisited the "source", which revealed the reliable "resource" clearly available in that source. We should definitely explore all the possibilities with an open frame of mind. Truth transcends any personal prejudices. POVs hold little merit when faced with the Truth. Gaining knowledge is an eternal quest. But how may one know that s/he have gained knowledge of all the parts? I truly appreciate your quest for gaining information. Had you gained the knowledge of that "resource" before posting your reservations against Dr. Udoke, we would not be having this discussion. :) Just to reiterate, I am supporting Dr. Udoke in the context of this discussion. Actually, the credit goes to the person, who took the initiative to find and reproduce a reliable "resource". The intent of providing you this link was only to keep the discussion focused on janamsakhis in a dedicated thread on janamsakhis. The authenticity of Sakhis can only be corroborated against the litmus test of Gurmat Values and Principles laid down in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru. There can be no other more reliable "resource" to corroborate the authenticity of the Sakhis as true events or not... Absolutely, I could not have said it in any other better way possible! :) Please excuse my limited English diction... No offense intended... Bhul chuk maaf [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Video Of The Day - Kachi Bani - Dr Sukhpreet Singh Udhoke
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top