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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
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Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
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Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Understanding Gurbani
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 79613" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>Quote”And I do not agree. I think many Sikhs do not even understand concept of dasam duar, or Naam, or amrit trickling down the throat, or yugs, or how Guru's could be one Jyot, or how Guru could speak from God-consciousness without physically being God, or how Guru is different from previous avatars, etc. without having some basic understanding of the Vedic concepts as they are used in Gurbani and in supportive vaaran. These are not meaningless concepts to be discarded or they would not be in Gurbani.</p><p> <strong>Important is to inch toward Dasam duar not just to word its concept, it is an effort, it is a sincere faith, its unconditional love that lead to that, not any kind of vast knowledge of Vedas and Abrahamic theories which can be helpful. Those who walk towards HIM in intoxication of HIS love, their world is changed. Many are following without Veda Knowledge, the one who have or boast about knowledge, I have seen stumbling them every day, that is my observation, just contrary to yours.</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Quote”Didn't you write on another post that simply sharing these things would cause Sikhs to run to a Hindu mandir and become Hindus?</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Please reread it, it is a different message, it is about those innocents who just are in love with Guru and want to follow him instead of digging wisdom of those scriptures in which human sacrifices and other obscenity are advocated( Atharva VedaDr.Ambedkar).</strong></p><p> Quote:</p><p> <em><span style="color: darkred">What can I do? Accept your imaginative meanings? Here is another recommendation, please read aad0002 ji’s on “three qualities of Maya” she has explained beautifully without slipping into imaginative worlds.</span></em> </p><p> Why put down the high compliment you paid to Aad0002 by including put down of me personally? Why not simply say, "I prefer this view?"</p><p> <strong>Here is a reason, you have failed to understand any thing I said in the past, in this context<u>, you do not see the reason</u> I referred aad0002's commentary. We are discussing terminology and their references used in Gurbani, in this context,I felt “Treguna” also falls in this category.. Very carefully aad0002 keeps explaining it with examples and precise comments, <u>not once she involves in a kind of digging into Hinduism as we both do.</u> My compliments are more addressed to <u>her approach than to her</u>. What you have noted here? ONLY SHE! I have regard for you, why should you even think I could put you down? </strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong></strong></p><p> Quot</p><p> You did not prove. I am not persuaded. Not only in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but also in Dasam Granth Bani Ji and vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji is there reference to avtaaras. I don't believe you understand the concept. You think I'm distorting Gurbani. We cannot continue further, since neither will persuade the other.</p><p> <strong>As you wish, I am not here to pursue any one, just share and appose if any one try to quote Gurbani but fails to convey Guru message.</strong></p><p></p><p> </p><p> Why does it offend you so much that I have a different opinion? I'm nowhere attacking you personally except to try and answer objections. Why should I be defensive? Agree or don't agree.</p><p> <strong>I am not offended by your opinion at all, there are some issues, I agree with you too but it were your questions with implied meaning that just disturbed me. If I disagree with you about your advocacy that GOD takes birth, why should the religion is brought into context to question it? If Gurbani is misunderstood, why is it necessary to ask if it is fake? Did I ever ask you such questions? If I did, I must feel sorry for it because that is not what you think as per my understanding.</strong></p><p> You did not prove. I am not persuaded. Not only in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but also in Dasam Granth Bani Ji and vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji is there reference to avtaaras. I don't believe you understand the concept. You think I'm distorting Gurbani. <u>We cannot continue</u> further, since neither will persuade the other.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>As You wish, I shall respect that.</strong></p><p> Gurbani says this, not me. But you are so busy being offended and rejecting that you can't see it.</p><p><strong>Why would I be busy being offended,? You have put a smile on my face, thanks. You can have this opinion about me, it doesn’t change the truth. I just resent bringing any whole community or religion just to trash it. I may disagree with all other faiths but I do respect them since this is also HIS Ordinance. If your intention was otherwise as you state, I thank you and sorry if there was any misunderstanding.</strong></p><p> <span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਏਕ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੰ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਰਬ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਵਾ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਵ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਵਾ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਤਮਾ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: navy"> </span></p><p><span style="color: navy">eaek kirasanan sarab dhaevaa dhaev dhaevaa th aathamaa ||</span></p><p><span style="color: navy">The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul.</span></p><p><span style="color: navy"></span></p><p><span style="color: navy"></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਤਮਾ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਾਸੁਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯਿ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੇ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਣੈ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੇਉ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਨਕੁ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਾ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਾ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਸੁ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੈ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੋਈ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਰੰਜਨ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਉ</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੪॥</span></span><span style="color: navy"> </span></p><p><span style="color: navy">aathamaa baasudhaevasiy jae ko jaanai bhaeo || naanak thaa kaa dhaas hai soee niranjan dhaeo ||4||</span></p><p><span style="color: navy">Nanak is a slave to anyone who understands this mystery of the all-pervading Lord; he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||4||</span></p><p><span style="color: navy">~SGGS Ji p. 469</span></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black">In the above quote by you as per Dr Sahib Singh ji, Bhai Veer Singh ji,” Krishan” word is an attribute to WAHEGURU, here it means The Creator is soul of Devtas and their Devtas. Nanak says only those get liberated who understand <u>this mystery of all pervading GOD</u>. Again it is about HIS sargun sroop, many just cannot comprehend it. Here Gurbani doesn’t say what you are advocating. On the same page, Guru ji keeps commenting on these but at the end of the Shabad he gives his own views, the best one in pursuit of HIM( GGS JI 469-470)</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: navy">\</span></strong></p><p> Quote“<u>Of course He takes birth.”</u></p><p> <strong>This is open opposition of SIKHISM’s basic principle- HE is Ajooni, Swambh” (beyond Birth and is from Himself Self illumined)</strong></p><p> Quote “He created Himself in the creation. In His Parabrahm aspect He is uncreated and cannot be born. But no one in sansaara could perceive Him. So He became manifest descending Light into the darkness of sansaaric world. And this is the meaning of avataar. Not that avataar is the Parabrahm, only the sargun form which is perceivable.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>Many times I told you that you could use words like” transcend, manifest” but not “takes Birth”, for His Sargun Sroop and you cannot say HE takes birth individually and leaves rest of the world unattended. Mystery of His Nirgun and Sargun sroop is very vital to understand. Peoples are not only saved by Him through Avtaras and Prophets but through many saints and other humanitarians too. He has ways to do things, His game goes on. If one says HE takes birth, obviously he/she is standing against” Guru ji’s own declaration about HIM” AJOONI, SWAMBH” These people known as Avtaras were and worshiped and the real Creator was and is put at the backside. Here Guru ji says that these were merely HIS creation, worship the Creator not creation. If we believe HE takes birth, and HE took birth as </strong><strong>Krishna</strong><strong>, Rama, Vishnu etc, there is no reason left not to worship them as HIM but Gurbani <u>says otherwise</u>. Confusion is just because of t<u>his Sargun Sroop in which HE manifests but individually doesn’t take birth</u>. When you support HE took birth in their forms, you are aligning with Hindu thought. Then you say Guru is above, HE is above, who will listen to this mix up music?? None, they would go to Mandir to start the trade as usual.(GGSJI 1283) </strong></p><p> <strong>If you say He manifests in all, but individually HE doesn’t take birth, I agree.</strong></p><p> t seems you cannot accept where Gurbani is saying Nirgun Parabrahm has created the creation and is manifest in His creation and that creation and Hindu devtas are none other than He. So I presume this to be an Abrahamic concept that One God is forever separate from His creation.</p><p> <strong> Presumption can be wrong. Abrahamic thought has failed to decipher the meaning of the Totality of the Infinite, so they see HIM separate, that is why there are seven days etc stories. Here He and His creation, is actually one, some thing comes out of it and goes into it back. Hard to understand but who experienced it, tried to explain it as much as they could.</strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'"> Here <strong>in </strong></span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">America</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">, a Native American has become my friend, whenever I discussed spiritual topics, he liked it. He said to me” we believe in the same kind of Super Power, Super Spirit” I agreed, in a way. Then as talk proceeded I just said to him” I think your ancestors are more right about Super Spirit than Christians” He said,” no one said that”. I said” Well, I feel so, this is the way I look at it, the idea is more explicit in your ancestor’s point of view than theirs”. He said “ there are other things you may not like it” I said” May be it is culture, it is always different place to place, There are many things, what our ancestors adored, but we may dislike them.” He agreed. He expressed his displeasure about what they went through. I told him to take it as Super Spirit’s Ordinance, when you love Super spirit, regardless what it gives, must be accepted happily. He was just quiet, may be he disagreed or may be he did misunderstand me. Whenever I meet Him, he respects me a lot and says he can relate himself to me. So it is matter of understanding the truth regardless the way it is said.</span></span></strong></p><p> Since Sikh's have the One Ek Oangkar and not the Hindu's, maybe they should convert?</p><p> <strong>I don’t think on others behalf.</strong></p><p> It's a logical step following the presumption that Hindu devas are only corrupted </p><p> <strong>Do you think they are pure and above Maya?</strong></p><p> or mythological, and a true distortion of Gurbani teaching about manifestation of Parabrahm Jyot in Time-Space and thus falling into the three gunas and duality. Gurbani says Guruji brought us the Shabad-Jyot and this Naam which is vibrating in the nirgun as well as the sargun and remains the only boat which is uncorrupted. Nowhere does Gurbani say Hindu devas are invalid, unreal, and provided no Light of God for past ages.</p><p> <strong>No where Gurbani says dig them out either.</strong></p><p> <strong>Now here below I am giving you the same Guru Vaak in which, Guru ji questions about KalYug, very logically he says,” nothing is changed, same Sun rises, same Moon, no body has seen Kalyug sitting some where”. Why he is saying that? Why he is just not saying, “yes Kalyug was there, or it is here”. <u>His concern is not </u><u>Kalyug but the time when HE is ignored, it is Kalyug, when HE is loved and praised it is goof time or age.</u> Please reread it in that CONTEXT; very beautifully Guru ji expressed his views on a prevailed termology. I would love to quote italian Critic who surprisingly says the same thing on art as i have been trying to say in context of understanding Gurbani( Poetry form= art), here is his views ”<u>work of art is an image, created in the mind of the artist and communicated to the minds of audience, only the image is a work of art; the physical object- painting, piece of scrulpture,</u> <u>or other form</u>- <u>is merely a practical act to aid reproduction of the image</u>. Benedetto Croce. So it is not the words that deserve importance but the message Guru ji conveys.</strong></p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਤੈ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੇਸਿ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਇਆ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਣੀਐ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A5" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੀਰਥ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਸਿ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੈਠਾ</span></a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="color: teal"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">कितैदेसिनआइआसुणीऐतीरथपासिनबैठा॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Kiṯai ḏės na ā*i*ā suṇī*ai ṯirath pās na baiṯẖā.</span> </p><p><span style="color: navy">The Darkage is not heard visiting any country or sitting at any shrine.</span> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਲਯੁਗਕਿਸੇਮੁਲਕਵਿੱਚਆਇਆਜਾਂਕਿਸ</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'">ੇ </span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਧਰਮਅਸਥਾਨਤੇਬੈਠਾਹੋਇਆਸੁਣਿਆਂਨਹੀਂਜਾਣਾ</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">।</span></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਤਾ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਾਨੁ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰੇ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%B9" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਹ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਹੀ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B2" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਹਲ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%89%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਉਸਾਰਿ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੈਠਾ</span></a></span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੨</span></span><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="color: teal"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">दाताद</span></span><span style="color: teal"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">ा</span></span><span style="color: teal"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">नुकरेतहनाहीमहलउसारिनबैठा॥२॥</span></span> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Ḏāṯā ḏān karė ṯah nāhī mahal usār na baiṯẖā. ||2||</span> </p><p><span style="color: navy">It is not there, where the man of bounty practises charity, nor it is seated in the mansion, built by it.</span> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਇਹਉਥੇਨਹੀਂਜਿਥੇਦਾਨੀਪੁਰਸ਼ਪੁੱਨਦਾਨਕਰਦਾਹੈ</span></span><span style="color: black">, </span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਂਹੀਇਹਮੰਦਰਬਣਾਕੇਉਸਅੰਦਰਬ</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ੈ</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਠਾਹੈ</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">।</span></span></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">As You feel I follow your posts, I humbly ask you” are you saying I should ignore your posts?”</span></span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">If answer is yes, I shall never ever dare to read or comment on your posts, I shall honor your wish gladly after all you are my intelligent Gur</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">sikh fellow</span></span></strong> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">Sister, all I have is regard for you. I thank you for sharing your views with me though.</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'"><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'"></span></span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 79613, member: 5889"] Quote”And I do not agree. I think many Sikhs do not even understand concept of dasam duar, or Naam, or amrit trickling down the throat, or yugs, or how Guru's could be one Jyot, or how Guru could speak from God-consciousness without physically being God, or how Guru is different from previous avatars, etc. without having some basic understanding of the Vedic concepts as they are used in Gurbani and in supportive vaaran. These are not meaningless concepts to be discarded or they would not be in Gurbani. [B]Important is to inch toward Dasam duar not just to word its concept, it is an effort, it is a sincere faith, its unconditional love that lead to that, not any kind of vast knowledge of Vedas and Abrahamic theories which can be helpful. Those who walk towards HIM in intoxication of HIS love, their world is changed. Many are following without Veda Knowledge, the one who have or boast about knowledge, I have seen stumbling them every day, that is my observation, just contrary to yours.[/B] Quote”Didn't you write on another post that simply sharing these things would cause Sikhs to run to a Hindu mandir and become Hindus? [B]Please reread it, it is a different message, it is about those innocents who just are in love with Guru and want to follow him instead of digging wisdom of those scriptures in which human sacrifices and other obscenity are advocated( Atharva VedaDr.Ambedkar).[/B] Quote: [I][COLOR=darkred]What can I do? Accept your imaginative meanings? Here is another recommendation, please read aad0002 ji’s on “three qualities of Maya” she has explained beautifully without slipping into imaginative worlds.[/COLOR][/I] Why put down the high compliment you paid to Aad0002 by including put down of me personally? Why not simply say, "I prefer this view?" [B]Here is a reason, you have failed to understand any thing I said in the past, in this context[U], you do not see the reason[/U] I referred aad0002's commentary. We are discussing terminology and their references used in Gurbani, in this context,I felt “Treguna” also falls in this category.. Very carefully aad0002 keeps explaining it with examples and precise comments, [U]not once she involves in a kind of digging into Hinduism as we both do.[/U] My compliments are more addressed to [U]her approach than to her[/U]. What you have noted here? ONLY SHE! I have regard for you, why should you even think I could put you down? [/B] Quot You did not prove. I am not persuaded. Not only in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but also in Dasam Granth Bani Ji and vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji is there reference to avtaaras. I don't believe you understand the concept. You think I'm distorting Gurbani. We cannot continue further, since neither will persuade the other. [B]As you wish, I am not here to pursue any one, just share and appose if any one try to quote Gurbani but fails to convey Guru message.[/B] Why does it offend you so much that I have a different opinion? I'm nowhere attacking you personally except to try and answer objections. Why should I be defensive? Agree or don't agree. [B]I am not offended by your opinion at all, there are some issues, I agree with you too but it were your questions with implied meaning that just disturbed me. If I disagree with you about your advocacy that GOD takes birth, why should the religion is brought into context to question it? If Gurbani is misunderstood, why is it necessary to ask if it is fake? Did I ever ask you such questions? If I did, I must feel sorry for it because that is not what you think as per my understanding.[/B] You did not prove. I am not persuaded. Not only in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but also in Dasam Granth Bani Ji and vaaran of Bhai Gurdas Ji is there reference to avtaaras. I don't believe you understand the concept. You think I'm distorting Gurbani. [U]We cannot continue[/U] further, since neither will persuade the other. [B]As You wish, I shall respect that.[/B] Gurbani says this, not me. But you are so busy being offended and rejecting that you can't see it. [B]Why would I be busy being offended,? You have put a smile on my face, thanks. You can have this opinion about me, it doesn’t change the truth. I just resent bringing any whole community or religion just to trash it. I may disagree with all other faiths but I do respect them since this is also HIS Ordinance. If your intention was otherwise as you state, I thank you and sorry if there was any misunderstanding.[/B] [COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਏਕ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੰ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਸਰਬ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਵਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਵ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਵਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਆਤਮਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy] eaek kirasanan sarab dhaevaa dhaev dhaevaa th aathamaa || The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul. [/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਆਤਮਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਬਾਸੁਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਜੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਣੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਭੇਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਨਕੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਤਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਕਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਸੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਸੋਈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਰੰਜਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy][FONT=Raavi]੪॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=navy] aathamaa baasudhaevasiy jae ko jaanai bhaeo || naanak thaa kaa dhaas hai soee niranjan dhaeo ||4|| Nanak is a slave to anyone who understands this mystery of the all-pervading Lord; he himself is the Immaculate Divine Lord. ||4|| ~SGGS Ji p. 469[/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black]In the above quote by you as per Dr Sahib Singh ji, Bhai Veer Singh ji,” Krishan” word is an attribute to WAHEGURU, here it means The Creator is soul of Devtas and their Devtas. Nanak says only those get liberated who understand [U]this mystery of all pervading GOD[/U]. Again it is about HIS sargun sroop, many just cannot comprehend it. Here Gurbani doesn’t say what you are advocating. On the same page, Guru ji keeps commenting on these but at the end of the Shabad he gives his own views, the best one in pursuit of HIM( GGS JI 469-470)[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=navy]\[/COLOR][/B] Quote“[U]Of course He takes birth.”[/U] [B]This is open opposition of SIKHISM’s basic principle- HE is Ajooni, Swambh” (beyond Birth and is from Himself Self illumined)[/B] Quote “He created Himself in the creation. In His Parabrahm aspect He is uncreated and cannot be born. But no one in sansaara could perceive Him. So He became manifest descending Light into the darkness of sansaaric world. And this is the meaning of avataar. Not that avataar is the Parabrahm, only the sargun form which is perceivable. [B]Many times I told you that you could use words like” transcend, manifest” but not “takes Birth”, for His Sargun Sroop and you cannot say HE takes birth individually and leaves rest of the world unattended. Mystery of His Nirgun and Sargun sroop is very vital to understand. Peoples are not only saved by Him through Avtaras and Prophets but through many saints and other humanitarians too. He has ways to do things, His game goes on. If one says HE takes birth, obviously he/she is standing against” Guru ji’s own declaration about HIM” AJOONI, SWAMBH” These people known as Avtaras were and worshiped and the real Creator was and is put at the backside. Here Guru ji says that these were merely HIS creation, worship the Creator not creation. If we believe HE takes birth, and HE took birth as [/B][B]Krishna[/B][B], Rama, Vishnu etc, there is no reason left not to worship them as HIM but Gurbani [U]says otherwise[/U]. Confusion is just because of t[U]his Sargun Sroop in which HE manifests but individually doesn’t take birth[/U]. When you support HE took birth in their forms, you are aligning with Hindu thought. Then you say Guru is above, HE is above, who will listen to this mix up music?? None, they would go to Mandir to start the trade as usual.(GGSJI 1283) [/B] [B]If you say He manifests in all, but individually HE doesn’t take birth, I agree.[/B] t seems you cannot accept where Gurbani is saying Nirgun Parabrahm has created the creation and is manifest in His creation and that creation and Hindu devtas are none other than He. So I presume this to be an Abrahamic concept that One God is forever separate from His creation. [B] Presumption can be wrong. Abrahamic thought has failed to decipher the meaning of the Totality of the Infinite, so they see HIM separate, that is why there are seven days etc stories. Here He and His creation, is actually one, some thing comes out of it and goes into it back. Hard to understand but who experienced it, tried to explain it as much as they could.[/B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal] Here [B]in [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]America[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal], a Native American has become my friend, whenever I discussed spiritual topics, he liked it. He said to me” we believe in the same kind of Super Power, Super Spirit” I agreed, in a way. Then as talk proceeded I just said to him” I think your ancestors are more right about Super Spirit than Christians” He said,” no one said that”. I said” Well, I feel so, this is the way I look at it, the idea is more explicit in your ancestor’s point of view than theirs”. He said “ there are other things you may not like it” I said” May be it is culture, it is always different place to place, There are many things, what our ancestors adored, but we may dislike them.” He agreed. He expressed his displeasure about what they went through. I told him to take it as Super Spirit’s Ordinance, when you love Super spirit, regardless what it gives, must be accepted happily. He was just quiet, may be he disagreed or may be he did misunderstand me. Whenever I meet Him, he respects me a lot and says he can relate himself to me. So it is matter of understanding the truth regardless the way it is said.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] Since Sikh's have the One Ek Oangkar and not the Hindu's, maybe they should convert? [B]I don’t think on others behalf.[/B] It's a logical step following the presumption that Hindu devas are only corrupted [B]Do you think they are pure and above Maya?[/B] or mythological, and a true distortion of Gurbani teaching about manifestation of Parabrahm Jyot in Time-Space and thus falling into the three gunas and duality. Gurbani says Guruji brought us the Shabad-Jyot and this Naam which is vibrating in the nirgun as well as the sargun and remains the only boat which is uncorrupted. Nowhere does Gurbani say Hindu devas are invalid, unreal, and provided no Light of God for past ages. [B]No where Gurbani says dig them out either.[/B] [B]Now here below I am giving you the same Guru Vaak in which, Guru ji questions about KalYug, very logically he says,” nothing is changed, same Sun rises, same Moon, no body has seen Kalyug sitting some where”. Why he is saying that? Why he is just not saying, “yes Kalyug was there, or it is here”. [U]His concern is not [/U][U]Kalyug but the time when HE is ignored, it is Kalyug, when HE is loved and praised it is goof time or age.[/U] Please reread it in that CONTEXT; very beautifully Guru ji expressed his views on a prevailed termology. I would love to quote italian Critic who surprisingly says the same thing on art as i have been trying to say in context of understanding Gurbani( Poetry form= art), here is his views ”[U]work of art is an image, created in the mind of the artist and communicated to the minds of audience, only the image is a work of art; the physical object- painting, piece of scrulpture,[/U] [U]or other form[/U]- [U]is merely a practical act to aid reproduction of the image[/U]. Benedetto Croce. So it is not the words that deserve importance but the message Guru ji conveys.[/B] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਤੈ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਦੇਸਿ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਇਆ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%90"][FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਣੀਐ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A5"][FONT=Raavi]ਤੀਰਥ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਸਿ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਬੈਠਾ[/FONT][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=teal][FONT=Mangal]कितैदेसिनआइआसुणीऐतीरथपासिनबैठा॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Tahoma]Kiṯai ḏės na ā*i*ā suṇī*ai ṯirath pās na baiṯẖā.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]The Darkage is not heard visiting any country or sitting at any shrine.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਕਲਯੁਗਕਿਸੇਮੁਲਕਵਿੱਚਆਇਆਜਾਂਕਿਸ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=AnmolUniPr]ੇ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਧਰਮਅਸਥਾਨਤੇਬੈਠਾਹੋਇਆਸੁਣਿਆਂਨਹੀਂਜਾਣਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]।[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਤਾ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਾਨੁ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰੇ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%B9"][FONT=Raavi]ਤਹ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%80"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਹੀ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B2"][FONT=Raavi]ਮਹਲ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%89%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਉਸਾਰਿ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][FONT=Raavi]ਨ[/FONT][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%A0%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਬੈਠਾ[/FONT][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Raavi]੨[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=teal][FONT=Mangal]दाताद[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=teal][FONT=Mangal]ा[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=teal][FONT=Mangal]नुकरेतहनाहीमहलउसारिनबैठा॥२॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Tahoma]Ḏāṯā ḏān karė ṯah nāhī mahal usār na baiṯẖā. ||2||[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]It is not there, where the man of bounty practises charity, nor it is seated in the mansion, built by it.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਇਹਉਥੇਨਹੀਂਜਿਥੇਦਾਨੀਪੁਰਸ਼ਪੁੱਨਦਾਨਕਰਦਾਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਂਹੀਇਹਮੰਦਰਬਣਾਕੇਉਸਅੰਦਰਬ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਠਾਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]।[/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]As You feel I follow your posts, I humbly ask you” are you saying I should ignore your posts?”[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]If answer is yes, I shall never ever dare to read or comment on your posts, I shall honor your wish gladly after all you are my intelligent Gur[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]sikh fellow[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]Sister, all I have is regard for you. I thank you for sharing your views with me though.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]:)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Gurmat Vichaar
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Understanding Gurbani
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