☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
The Shakat And Tantric Philosophy
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="drkhalsa" data-source="post: 5305" data-attributes="member: 384"><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Dear Kanawar Sher Singh ji</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Waheguru ji ka Khalsa </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Waheguru ji ki Fateh</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The Pauri </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Eka Maaee Jugat Viaee Tin Chele Parwan</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">refers to the Shakat and Tantric philosophy that was very popular on the Indian religious scene a couple of centuries before Guru Nanak Dev ji (Remember Khajuraho temples, 12th century).</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">To put the whole thing in perspective we must not think of Hinduism to be a homogenous & coherent stream of thought. The major streams which in some instances are antithetical to one another are: (1) Vaishanism, where Vishnu is the ultimate reality who appears in incarnations to rid this planet of sin, i.e. Ram, Krishan, NarSinh, etc. (2) Shaivism, where Shiv is the ultimate reality and who does not follow the Avtar pattern of Vishnu but is ever present on the Kailash mountain with his consorts. (3) Shakat and Tantric streams, consider the ultimate reality to be a female (hence, the word Maee in Japuji) who creates initially the universe, then the trinity of gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiv. The followers of this female worship her in various Devi forms viz., Kali, Kalika, Durga, Chandi, Laxmi, Ganga, and a host of other Devi forms. The important thing to note in their case is (the point often not realised) that those who are staunch Devi or Shakti followers do not worship the three major gods mentioned above b</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">ut rather ridicule them with the understanding that the latter are at a lower plane and are creation of the Godess. This is manifested in the Devi mythology, e.g. in the Durga or Chandi's story she restores the gods in heaven after they all were defeated by the demons. These gods having suffered defeat go to Durga and wait near her abode to ask for her help. One day She comes to have a bath outside when the gods ask for help.( Ik dihare nahwan ayee Rani Durgsah, Indar virtha sunaee apne haal di - Chandi di Vaar, Dasam Granth). Similarly, we see in Dasam Granth, one of the Devi worshipper court poet of Guruji says, Main na Ganesh Pritham Manaoon, Kishen Bishen Kabhoon na Dhiaoon, Kaan Sune Pahechaan na tin ko, .... At the end we have the swayyia we so lovingly ascribe to Guru ji which actually was written by another poet .i.e Pai Gahe Jab te tumre tab te koyoo ankh tare nahin aniyo. Ram Rahim Puran Quran Anek kahain mat ek na maniyo.... Sri Asipan kirpa tumri kar main na kahiyo sab tohe vakhaniyo..</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Here the word Asipan needs to be noted. Kali or Kalika is considered by Tantric Shakats to be the ultimate reality. The iconography shows Kali witha an iron weapon in her hand and the worshippers adore her in this pose. Asi means iron and Asipan means an iron weapon which could be a Kharag or any other similar weapon. The only cult or Hindu religious stream that worships iron or iron weapons is the one that worships Kali. Kali is also considered synonymous with iron metal (Sarabloh). </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">We Sikhs in our enthusiasm and lack of understanding of various streams of Hindu belief try to own something which has nothing to do with Sikh thought and is patently Tantric or Shakat (the difference between Tantrics and Shakats is that the former recognis only Kali or Kalika, the latter worship a whole plethora of Devis) We tend to gloat over the idea that Gurji worshiped the sword as God's Shakti. This is not the truth and is a very trivial idea. Shakti is another name for Maya which according to the Gurbani is to be detested and overcome. Then how can tenth Guruji worship something that is another name for Maya. The clever writers who were basically Shakat and occansionly Vaishanav introduced so much of their Tantric ideas in Dasam Granth that the eighteenth century Sikhs innocently accepted these as authentic and absorbed these into Sikh rituals such as Ardas and Rahiras. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Guru Nanak Dev ji was well aware of not just the Hindu variations but others such as Budhist, Jain, and Muslim as well. In the Pauri in Japuji, Guru ji is simply stating what the Shakats and Tantrics (some these were Sidhs as well) professed as their philosophy as an example. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Thus, what the Hindu friends of yours are saying is not far from the truth. However, we have to first learn a lot about Hinduism and other traditions extant at the time of Gurujis to see Gurbani in the real perspective. This is the only way we can fight the challenge posed by others bombarding us with clever moves.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">We must first objectively sort out the authentic from adultration especially in Dasam Granth which is our weak point exploited by clever Hindu propagandists.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Humbly,</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I remain the Charan Dhoor of Sadh Sangat</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Serjinder Singh</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="drkhalsa, post: 5305, member: 384"] [font=Verdana]Dear Kanawar Sher Singh ji Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh The Pauri Eka Maaee Jugat Viaee Tin Chele Parwan refers to the Shakat and Tantric philosophy that was very popular on the Indian religious scene a couple of centuries before Guru Nanak Dev ji (Remember Khajuraho temples, 12th century). To put the whole thing in perspective we must not think of Hinduism to be a homogenous & coherent stream of thought. The major streams which in some instances are antithetical to one another are: (1) Vaishanism, where Vishnu is the ultimate reality who appears in incarnations to rid this planet of sin, i.e. Ram, Krishan, NarSinh, etc. (2) Shaivism, where Shiv is the ultimate reality and who does not follow the Avtar pattern of Vishnu but is ever present on the Kailash mountain with his consorts. (3) Shakat and Tantric streams, consider the ultimate reality to be a female (hence, the word Maee in Japuji) who creates initially the universe, then the trinity of gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiv. The followers of this female worship her in various Devi forms viz., Kali, Kalika, Durga, Chandi, Laxmi, Ganga, and a host of other Devi forms. The important thing to note in their case is (the point often not realised) that those who are staunch Devi or Shakti followers do not worship the three major gods mentioned above b ut rather ridicule them with the understanding that the latter are at a lower plane and are creation of the Godess. This is manifested in the Devi mythology, e.g. in the Durga or Chandi's story she restores the gods in heaven after they all were defeated by the demons. These gods having suffered defeat go to Durga and wait near her abode to ask for her help. One day She comes to have a bath outside when the gods ask for help.( Ik dihare nahwan ayee Rani Durgsah, Indar virtha sunaee apne haal di - Chandi di Vaar, Dasam Granth). Similarly, we see in Dasam Granth, one of the Devi worshipper court poet of Guruji says, Main na Ganesh Pritham Manaoon, Kishen Bishen Kabhoon na Dhiaoon, Kaan Sune Pahechaan na tin ko, .... At the end we have the swayyia we so lovingly ascribe to Guru ji which actually was written by another poet .i.e Pai Gahe Jab te tumre tab te koyoo ankh tare nahin aniyo. Ram Rahim Puran Quran Anek kahain mat ek na maniyo.... Sri Asipan kirpa tumri kar main na kahiyo sab tohe vakhaniyo.. Here the word Asipan needs to be noted. Kali or Kalika is considered by Tantric Shakats to be the ultimate reality. The iconography shows Kali witha an iron weapon in her hand and the worshippers adore her in this pose. Asi means iron and Asipan means an iron weapon which could be a Kharag or any other similar weapon. The only cult or Hindu religious stream that worships iron or iron weapons is the one that worships Kali. Kali is also considered synonymous with iron metal (Sarabloh). We Sikhs in our enthusiasm and lack of understanding of various streams of Hindu belief try to own something which has nothing to do with Sikh thought and is patently Tantric or Shakat (the difference between Tantrics and Shakats is that the former recognis only Kali or Kalika, the latter worship a whole plethora of Devis) We tend to gloat over the idea that Gurji worshiped the sword as God's Shakti. This is not the truth and is a very trivial idea. Shakti is another name for Maya which according to the Gurbani is to be detested and overcome. Then how can tenth Guruji worship something that is another name for Maya. The clever writers who were basically Shakat and occansionly Vaishanav introduced so much of their Tantric ideas in Dasam Granth that the eighteenth century Sikhs innocently accepted these as authentic and absorbed these into Sikh rituals such as Ardas and Rahiras. Guru Nanak Dev ji was well aware of not just the Hindu variations but others such as Budhist, Jain, and Muslim as well. In the Pauri in Japuji, Guru ji is simply stating what the Shakats and Tantrics (some these were Sidhs as well) professed as their philosophy as an example. Thus, what the Hindu friends of yours are saying is not far from the truth. However, we have to first learn a lot about Hinduism and other traditions extant at the time of Gurujis to see Gurbani in the real perspective. This is the only way we can fight the challenge posed by others bombarding us with clever moves. We must first objectively sort out the authentic from adultration especially in Dasam Granth which is our weak point exploited by clever Hindu propagandists. Humbly, I remain the Charan Dhoor of Sadh Sangat Serjinder Singh[/font] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
The Shakat And Tantric Philosophy
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top