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Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
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The Five Realms
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<blockquote data-quote="arshi" data-source="post: 116870" data-attributes="member: 9479"><p>Tejwant Ji you embarrass me. An individual of your spiritual status asking, humble me, for advice on spiritual matters – I am as much a learner as you are – in fact you are perhaps more spiritually advanced than me.</p><p> </p><p>You have asked some excellent questions though, as one would expect from you. I have a sneaky feeling you already have some ideas about the solutions – It will be helpful if you could first share these with us. My situation is like that scholar referred to in Maskin Ji’s anecdote above (repeated below):</p><p> </p><p><strong><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">“I remember once listening to a video recording of Maskeen Ji wherein he mentioned a scholar giving a very erudite, weighty and interesting discourse on the Five Realms. When asked by Maskin ji, who was very impressed by the lecture, whether the scholar was quoting from experience, the learned man quite candidly and spontaneously replied no and that his talk was a purely based on an academic research.”</span></em></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Some of the questions you have asked only a brahmgyani can answer, but I am only a humble Sikh (a learner) just like yourself.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">However. I can offer a few thoughts on what you have asked – these are only my humble thoughts, based on my perceptions and not necessarily on experience. The Khands mentioned by Guru Nanak are Levels of Spiritual Ascendancy – we do not always have the right vocabulary, unfortunately to put every spiritual experience in words.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Realm is perhaps the nearest English translation for Khand – the nearest dictionary meaning of realm appears to be: “region, sphere, or domain within which anything occurs, prevails”. We may also call it ‘plane’ or ‘level’.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Your questions:</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Pease treat the answers as pure academic responses.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">1. </span></span><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Are these five realms mentioned by you tangible or <strong>intangible</strong> ones? </span></span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Answer: Great, greeeeeeeeeeat Q. </span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Khands are the spiritual stages through which the soul progresses. On a physical plane this is intangible but on the elevated spiritual plane it is perhaps tangible (experienced by the soul - <em>sparsh</em>). Remember the body is made of five <em>tats</em>, one of them, for example, (akash, ether) is experienced by <em>sparsh.</em></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">2. </span></span><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">If they are tangibles then where are they located? </span></span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Answer: </span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Not relevant in view of (1) above.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">3. </span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">If not then <strong><em>how one can experience them</em></strong> and <strong>can this experience be shared with others in a tangible manner? </strong></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Answer: </span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">No the experience cannot be shared. Only the Guru’s Grace can reveal these.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">4. </span></span><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Are these realms interlinked? If so, then in what way are they linked?</span></span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Answer: </span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">These are levels of ascendancy – normally, in sequence IMHO. I believe the spiritual ascendancy occurs in the order the levels appear in Japji Sahib but some believe otherwise – please read my dialogue with brother Sahni Ji. But anything can happen with Guru’s Grace. Sajjan Thug was transformed from a robber into a saint in an instance by Guru Nanak– brought forward karma?</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">5. </span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Can one hop scotch from one realm to the other or is there a right order like the steps of a ladder?</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Answer: </span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Yes with Guru’s Grace.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">6. </span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">What happens if one is <strong><em>successful in one realm but a total failure in the other</em></strong> <strong>one? How does one mend that?</strong></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Answer: </span></span><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Even at Gian khand stage, Guru Ji mentions that the soul is tested, but guidance and help is also available – see article portion reproduced below.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">“<em>Whilst many <em>devtas</em> (knowledgeable and spiritually evolved souls) reside in this realm, surprisingly <strong>there are also many false gods</strong> <em>(daanavs). </em><strong>Thus, <strong>this is a realm where souls are still tested</strong> by mixing fully evolved spirits with those which are still evolving and those which still tempt the soul with false desires.</strong> However, <strong>guidance and help is available from many agents of God</strong> who come down to assist, i.e. in this <em>khand </em>there are both disciples and gurus with divine knowledge. </em></span></span></p><p> </p><p><strong><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You wrote:</span></span></em></strong><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> As the meaning of the word Sikh is a learner, a student which implies that making mistakes and learning from them is a norm for a Sikh in Sikhi not an exception. So, as making mistakes is a must then, is there a conflict in reaching these realms and being a Sikh which is a life long learning process? </span></span></em></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Tejwant ji only God is infallible “bhulanhar sabh ko abhul Guru Kartar” – surely allowances must be made for this – please distinguish between manmuks (totally responsible for his transgressions) and gurmukh (Guru takes over your problems and guides you along the path of spirituality – Nanak will hold your hand and help you cross over).</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You wrote:</span></span></em></strong><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> After you have helped me untangle this web of thoughts then I would like to interact about each realm with you.</span></span></em></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Again you are putting me on a pedestal. I am just as much a learner as you are. Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/28344-the-five-realms.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800080">http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28344 (The Five Realms)</span></a></span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Have I passed? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Getting very late here in UK – time for bed. God Bless.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="arshi, post: 116870, member: 9479"] Tejwant Ji you embarrass me. An individual of your spiritual status asking, humble me, for advice on spiritual matters – I am as much a learner as you are – in fact you are perhaps more spiritually advanced than me. You have asked some excellent questions though, as one would expect from you. I have a sneaky feeling you already have some ideas about the solutions – It will be helpful if you could first share these with us. My situation is like that scholar referred to in Maskin Ji’s anecdote above (repeated below): [B][I][FONT=Verdana]“I remember once listening to a video recording of Maskeen Ji wherein he mentioned a scholar giving a very erudite, weighty and interesting discourse on the Five Realms. When asked by Maskin ji, who was very impressed by the lecture, whether the scholar was quoting from experience, the learned man quite candidly and spontaneously replied no and that his talk was a purely based on an academic research.”[/FONT][/I][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Some of the questions you have asked only a brahmgyani can answer, but I am only a humble Sikh (a learner) just like yourself.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]However. I can offer a few thoughts on what you have asked – these are only my humble thoughts, based on my perceptions and not necessarily on experience. The Khands mentioned by Guru Nanak are Levels of Spiritual Ascendancy – we do not always have the right vocabulary, unfortunately to put every spiritual experience in words.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Realm is perhaps the nearest English translation for Khand – the nearest dictionary meaning of realm appears to be: “region, sphere, or domain within which anything occurs, prevails”. We may also call it ‘plane’ or ‘level’.[/FONT][/COLOR] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Your questions:[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Pease treat the answers as pure academic responses.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]1. [/FONT][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Are these five realms mentioned by you tangible or [B]intangible[/B] ones? [/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial Black]Answer: Great, greeeeeeeeeeat Q. [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Khands are the spiritual stages through which the soul progresses. On a physical plane this is intangible but on the elevated spiritual plane it is perhaps tangible (experienced by the soul - [I]sparsh[/I]). Remember the body is made of five [I]tats[/I], one of them, for example, (akash, ether) is experienced by [I]sparsh.[/I][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]2. [/FONT][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If they are tangibles then where are they located? [/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial Black]Answer: [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Not relevant in view of (1) above.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]3. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If not then [B][I]how one can experience them[/I][/B] and [B]can this experience be shared with others in a tangible manner? [/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial Black]Answer: [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]No the experience cannot be shared. Only the Guru’s Grace can reveal these.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]4. [/FONT][/COLOR][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Are these realms interlinked? If so, then in what way are they linked?[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial Black]Answer: [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]These are levels of ascendancy – normally, in sequence IMHO. I believe the spiritual ascendancy occurs in the order the levels appear in Japji Sahib but some believe otherwise – please read my dialogue with brother Sahni Ji. But anything can happen with Guru’s Grace. Sajjan Thug was transformed from a robber into a saint in an instance by Guru Nanak– brought forward karma?[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]5. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Can one hop scotch from one realm to the other or is there a right order like the steps of a ladder?[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial Black]Answer: [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Yes with Guru’s Grace.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]6. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]What happens if one is [B][I]successful in one realm but a total failure in the other[/I][/B] [B]one? How does one mend that?[/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial Black]Answer: [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Even at Gian khand stage, Guru Ji mentions that the soul is tested, but guidance and help is also available – see article portion reproduced below.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]“[I]Whilst many [I]devtas[/I] (knowledgeable and spiritually evolved souls) reside in this realm, surprisingly [B]there are also many false gods[/B] [I](daanavs). [/I][B]Thus, [B]this is a realm where souls are still tested[/B] by mixing fully evolved spirits with those which are still evolving and those which still tempt the soul with false desires.[/B] However, [B]guidance and help is available from many agents of God[/B] who come down to assist, i.e. in this [I]khand [/I]there are both disciples and gurus with divine knowledge. [/I][/FONT][/COLOR] [B][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You wrote:[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] As the meaning of the word Sikh is a learner, a student which implies that making mistakes and learning from them is a norm for a Sikh in Sikhi not an exception. So, as making mistakes is a must then, is there a conflict in reaching these realms and being a Sikh which is a life long learning process? [/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Tejwant ji only God is infallible “bhulanhar sabh ko abhul Guru Kartar” – surely allowances must be made for this – please distinguish between manmuks (totally responsible for his transgressions) and gurmukh (Guru takes over your problems and guides you along the path of spirituality – Nanak will hold your hand and help you cross over).[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You wrote:[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] After you have helped me untangle this web of thoughts then I would like to interact about each realm with you.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Again you are putting me on a pedestal. I am just as much a learner as you are. Read More:: Sikh Philosophy Network [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual-articles/28344-the-five-realms.html"][COLOR=#800080]http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=28344 (The Five Realms)[/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Have I passed? :rolleyes:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Getting very late here in UK – time for bed. God Bless.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’[/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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