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Hard Talk
The Doctrine: Manmukh And Gurmukh
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<blockquote data-quote="Inderjeet Kaur" data-source="post: 215756" data-attributes="member: 16531"><p>We are such vile, evil, sinful creatures that God cannot stand the sight of us unless we are washed clean in the blood of Jesus Christ; no amount of good deeds can ever overcome our inherent sinful nature. Grace is both necessary and sufficient Good works are largely irrelevant. This is the traditional belief of Christian Protestants. </p><p></p><p>Sikhi teaches nothing like this. If I have it correct, Sikhs are called upon to grow spiritually with a combination of grace and good works. This is strongly implied in the Mul Mantra, which is familiar to every Sikh. Just because I feel like it, I'm posting it here. No arguments, please, about whether only the first line in Mul Mantra; that has nothing to do with this discussion. Please just take a look at it in light of this discussion.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A9%B4" target="_blank">ੴ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਸਤਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਨਾਮੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank">ਕਰਤਾ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਪੁਰਖੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਨਿਰਭਉ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B2" target="_blank">ਅਕਾਲ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਮੂਰਤਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਅਜੂਨੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%B0" target="_blank">ਸੈਭੰ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank">ਗੁਰ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%8D%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ </a>॥ </p><p>Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ. </p><p>One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~ </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਜਪੁ </a>॥ </p><p>Jap. </p><p>Chant And Meditate: </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਆਦਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਸਚੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank">ਜੁਗਾਦਿ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਸਚੁ </a>॥ </p><p>Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ. </p><p>True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages. </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਹੈ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਭੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਸਚੁ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%95" target="_blank">ਨਾਨਕ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਹੋਸੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਭੀ </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਸਚੁ </a>॥੧॥ </p><p>Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1|| </p><p>True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1|| </p><p></p><p></p><p>It is not for me to name anyone Gurmukh or Manmukh; I am only fairly certain that those calling themselves "Gurmukh" aren't because to so praise oneself is certainly an indication of a big ego. I'm not even certain that these classifications apply outside the Sikh community.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Inderjeet Kaur, post: 215756, member: 16531"] We are such vile, evil, sinful creatures that God cannot stand the sight of us unless we are washed clean in the blood of Jesus Christ; no amount of good deeds can ever overcome our inherent sinful nature. Grace is both necessary and sufficient Good works are largely irrelevant. This is the traditional belief of Christian Protestants. Sikhi teaches nothing like this. If I have it correct, Sikhs are called upon to grow spiritually with a combination of grace and good works. This is strongly implied in the Mul Mantra, which is familiar to every Sikh. Just because I feel like it, I'm posting it here. No arguments, please, about whether only the first line in Mul Mantra; that has nothing to do with this discussion. Please just take a look at it in light of this discussion. [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A9%B4']ੴ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF']ਸਤਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81']ਨਾਮੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE']ਕਰਤਾ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%96%E0%A9%81']ਪੁਰਖੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%AD%E0%A8%89']ਨਿਰਭਉ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81']ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B2']ਅਕਾਲ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF']ਮੂਰਤਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80']ਅਜੂਨੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%88%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%B0']ਸੈਭੰ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%B0']ਗੁਰ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%8D%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF']ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ [/URL]॥ Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯ nām karṯā purakẖ nirbẖa▫o nirvair akāl mūraṯ ajūnī saibẖaʼn gur parsāḏ. One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~ [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81']ਜਪੁ [/URL]॥ Jap. Chant And Meditate: [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF']ਆਦਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81']ਸਚੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF']ਜੁਗਾਦਿ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81']ਸਚੁ [/URL]॥ Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ. True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages. [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%88']ਹੈ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80']ਭੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81']ਸਚੁ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%95']ਨਾਨਕ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%80']ਹੋਸੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80']ਭੀ [/URL][URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81']ਸਚੁ [/URL]॥੧॥ Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1|| True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1|| It is not for me to name anyone Gurmukh or Manmukh; I am only fairly certain that those calling themselves "Gurmukh" aren't because to so praise oneself is certainly an indication of a big ego. I'm not even certain that these classifications apply outside the Sikh community. [/QUOTE]
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The Doctrine: Manmukh And Gurmukh
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