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Hard Talk
The Destiny/Free Will Paradox
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<blockquote data-quote="lalihayer" data-source="post: 88535" data-attributes="member: 5412"><p>Here are couple of questions asked by curious or doubtful minds.</p><p>1. Would that mean we don't need any effort on our part? Would it make us irresponsible?</p><p>2. Does that mean Lord made us do bad deeds? Then why we have to go through pain because of our actions which God caused us to do?</p><p>Orange colored are the questions and blue colored are the answers from Gurbani.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkOrange">1. Would that mean we don't need any effort on our part? </span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Blue">Doing effort is an integral part of Sikhism. Even though as a Sikh, we should always keep in mind that Lord is playing this whole game, but it should not prevent us from doing effort on our part. </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">Guru Nanak in Pauri 36 of Japji talks about One of the spiritual stages on our way to Lord. It is called Sarm Khand. 'Sarm' here means effort. There are other many examples from Gurbani where Guru Sahib told us to do effort. But this effort can only be done within His Hukam. </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span> <span style="color: Blue">ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰੂਪੁ ॥ ਤਿਥੈ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">Beauty is the language of the realm of spiritual effort. There, an extremely incomparable make, is made. </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">ਤਾ ਕੀਆ ਗਲਾ ਕਥੀਆ ਨਾ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">The proceedings of that place can not be described. If any one endeavors to describe, he shall afterwards repent. </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥ ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਾ ਸਿਧਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥੩੬॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">There inner consciousness, intellect, soul and understand are moulded afresh. There the genius of the pious persons and men of miracles is moulded a new. </span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span> <span style="color: DarkOrange">2. Does that mean Lord made us do bad deeds? Then why we have to go through pain because of our actions which God caused us to do?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkOrange"></span> </p><p><span style="color: Blue"><strong>What is good and bad? </strong></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">At a stage, gurmukh will realize that there is no difference between Good and Bad.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">A tuk from one of shabads (Fifth Mahl) I posted earlier.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span> <span style="color: Blue">ਉਝੜ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਕੀਨਾ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਵੇਪਾੜਾ ॥੪॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">The wilderness and the path are all made by You. No one can take the wrong path. ||4||</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">Guru Nanak Dev on panna 229.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span> <span style="color: Blue">ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਆਪੇ ਭਰਮਾਇਆ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">He Himself is All-pervading; He Himself misleads the people.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਬੂਝੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੯॥੨॥੧੮॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">By Guru's Grace, one comes to understand, that God is contained in all.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"><strong>why are we afraid of pain and suffering? </strong></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span> <span style="color: Blue">ਮਃ ੧ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">First Mehl:</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">ਨਾਨਕ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਝਖਣਾ ਦੁਖ ਛਡਿ ਮੰਗੀਅਹਿ ਸੁਖ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">O Nanak, it is absurd to ask to be spared from pain by begging for comfort.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ਮਨੁਖ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">Pleasure and pain are the two garments given, to be worn in the Court of the Lord.</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">ਜਿਥੈ ਬੋਲਣਿ ਹਾਰੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਚੰਗੀ ਚੁਪ ॥੨॥</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue">Where you are bound to lose by speaking, there, you ought to remain silent. ||2||</span></p><p><span style="color: Blue"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lalihayer, post: 88535, member: 5412"] Here are couple of questions asked by curious or doubtful minds. 1. Would that mean we don't need any effort on our part? Would it make us irresponsible? 2. Does that mean Lord made us do bad deeds? Then why we have to go through pain because of our actions which God caused us to do? Orange colored are the questions and blue colored are the answers from Gurbani. [COLOR=DarkOrange]1. Would that mean we don't need any effort on our part? [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]Doing effort is an integral part of Sikhism. Even though as a Sikh, we should always keep in mind that Lord is playing this whole game, but it should not prevent us from doing effort on our part. Guru Nanak in Pauri 36 of Japji talks about One of the spiritual stages on our way to Lord. It is called Sarm Khand. 'Sarm' here means effort. There are other many examples from Gurbani where Guru Sahib told us to do effort. But this effort can only be done within His Hukam. [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]ਸਰਮ ਖੰਡ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਰੂਪੁ ॥ ਤਿਥੈ ਘਾੜਤਿ ਘੜੀਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ॥ Beauty is the language of the realm of spiritual effort. There, an extremely incomparable make, is made. ਤਾ ਕੀਆ ਗਲਾ ਕਥੀਆ ਨਾ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥ The proceedings of that place can not be described. If any one endeavors to describe, he shall afterwards repent. ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥ ਤਿਥੈ ਘੜੀਐ ਸੁਰਾ ਸਿਧਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥੩੬॥ There inner consciousness, intellect, soul and understand are moulded afresh. There the genius of the pious persons and men of miracles is moulded a new. [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkOrange]2. Does that mean Lord made us do bad deeds? Then why we have to go through pain because of our actions which God caused us to do? [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue][B]What is good and bad? [/B] At a stage, gurmukh will realize that there is no difference between Good and Bad. A tuk from one of shabads (Fifth Mahl) I posted earlier. [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]ਉਝੜ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਕੀਨਾ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਵੇਪਾੜਾ ॥੪॥ The wilderness and the path are all made by You. No one can take the wrong path. ||4|| Guru Nanak Dev on panna 229. [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]ਸਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਆਪੇ ਭਰਮਾਇਆ ॥ He Himself is All-pervading; He Himself misleads the people. ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਬੂਝੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੯॥੨॥੧੮॥ By Guru's Grace, one comes to understand, that God is contained in all. [B]why are we afraid of pain and suffering? [/B] [/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]ਮਃ ੧ ॥ First Mehl: ਨਾਨਕ ਬੋਲਣੁ ਝਖਣਾ ਦੁਖ ਛਡਿ ਮੰਗੀਅਹਿ ਸੁਖ ॥ O Nanak, it is absurd to ask to be spared from pain by begging for comfort. ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ ਜਾਇ ਮਨੁਖ ॥ Pleasure and pain are the two garments given, to be worn in the Court of the Lord. ਜਿਥੈ ਬੋਲਣਿ ਹਾਰੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਚੰਗੀ ਚੁਪ ॥੨॥ Where you are bound to lose by speaking, there, you ought to remain silent. ||2|| [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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