☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Sikhs In Temples
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 90129" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>I would like your views on"[/FONT]I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now(quote Bhagat Singh Ji)</p><p></p><p> </p><p> <strong>Your Mom was misguiding you, <u>you did the right thing; </u>however, I wonder, how come you successfully differentiated between blind bowing and rational bowing while being with your Mom but in the context of bowing to Idols, it becomes respect for you but bowing to the other things your Mom said, doesn’t appear to be sign of respect. Amazing! Isn't it double standard? What Mom said was not sign of respect but what you do before a stone is a sign of respect.</strong></p><p> I have I will post them all here now. My reasoning, basically where I am coming from. ALl you have to do is go back and read my posts and those of Randip Singh ji.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>I was just asking your rationality of questioning other members to back up their views when your own views are just coming from” where I am coming from..”</strong></p><p><strong></strong>Bowing down is for respect and not worship. In I<u>ndian culture</u> NOT bowing down to something greater than you is ignorance. <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Guru</a> ji did not say to not bow down.</p><p> <strong>You are mixing things up, bowing to the Idols is not a cultural things, cultural things are done at by large, here that is not the case, you can keep arguing about this, it will never end but it has nothing to do with Gurbani teachings. It depends, as per your own words, from where you come. <u>Cultural and religious acts are certainly different.</u></strong></p><p> </p><p> What do you mean? I guess if I had too and if there was nothing wrong with it being dirty</p><p> <strong>I tried to give you a point with an example which you just missed it, let me try again. If Guru ji says” that pond is dirty, there is dirt in it”, now question rises“Why Guru ji is telling us that pond is dirty?" It is a hint to stay away from the pond. Same way, why Guru ji saying that such people who have turned to stones are blind, ignorant. Message is clear that hisfollowers should not fall for those stones. If Stone worshiping is condemned, why Guru ji would ask his followers to respect” stones” Please give me a reason!</strong></p><p> <strong> Guru ji took this bowing and worshiping of Idols very seriously, look at the words he used”</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A7%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਧੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗੁੰਗੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A7" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਧ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅੰਧਾਰੁ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Anḏẖe gunge anḏẖ anḏẖār.</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਥਰੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੂਜਹਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A7" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੁਗਧ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਗਵਾਰ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">/</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"> Pāthar le pūjėh mugaḏẖ gavār.</span></span></strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">After reading it, if still you think, bowing (paying respect) to stone is alright, so it be for you, but Gurbani doesn’t support it a bit. You can keep Saying” give the proof” when proof is already there. As I said, do whatever you want to do but at least do not base it on Sikh Scriptures. Bowing to the Idols (whom as Sikhs we think they are just stones) is hypocrisy.</span></span></strong></p><p> </p><p> I bow to my elders even if I don't believe in the same things they do. If I ever meet you I will bow down to you! BOwing down is also a sign of humility. One of our Gurus bowed down and cleaned someone's feet with his beard. (forget exactly what happened there)</p><p> <strong>Again, bowing to elders, bowing to stones cannot be the same. Why we bow to elders? To show respect, but why? Just because they are elders as per own your words. Why to show respect to a stone then? It is not elder? It has no feelings; it doesn’t even know you are bowing.( now You can come up with another idea of your own” well SGGS Ji has no feelings as well..” to continue the argument but remember, it contains Gurbani of our revered Guru unlike the stone which is just a stone)</strong></p><p> Yes it is. Both are sign of respect.</p><p>So you cannot bow down to a neutral stone but you can bow down to a obviously ignorant worshipper? </p><p> <strong>How it can be the same? The ignorant worshiper is a human being, I respect human beings, if he worships stone, it is his choice, why would I mind it? For me “Stone is a stone, a neutral or not”, who worships them, is a human being, he deserves the respect but not the stone by any reason. I will bow to him as I bow before elders, I do not bow to their views.</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Well, I think it is the same. All are done to show respect. Oh you didnt want my answer...</p><p> NOOO really? Are you sure by bowing down you are not worshipping?</p><p> <strong>Your statement is confusing, bowing and worshiping are two different things in context of <u>social behavior and religious ritual acts</u>. When one bows to a religious entity, bowing is more than paying respect, in social context; it is just a sign of respect. </strong></p><p> Yes bowing down is the first step like respect is the first step THEN learning takes place. But you can leave it at the respect stage. You respect but just don't want to learn, tere is nothing wrong with that</p><p> <strong>First step some time turns out to be the last step too. If superficial faith is enough, I have no further comments; if it is more than that, I can continue. </strong></p><p> </p><p> We don't know that</p><p> </p><p> That's no proof.</p><p> <strong>In the following Guru Nanak speaks against bowing to others, how in dreams he could have bowed to a stone as per your assumptions. What proof more we need. I have no solution for denials. Here it is again</strong></p><p> <strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਉ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਹਲੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਜੂਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦੂਜੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਿਵੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਿਸੁ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong><strong><u><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਦਰਵਾਣੀ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਹਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੂਲੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%9B" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁਛ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਿਸੁ</span> </a></span></span></u></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9B%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%9F%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਛੁਟੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤਾ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੋਲਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%AC" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਾਹਿਬ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਦਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਿਸੁ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੩</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis.</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Ḏar ḏarvāṇī nāhi mūle pucẖẖ ṯis.</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Cẖẖutai ṯā kai bol sāhib naḏar jis. ||3||</span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>More if it is accepted by a rational mind, do we need to respect stones? The words are so strong, there is no doubt that stones are not considered worth to be respected by a Sikh at all as per Gurbani</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank">ਪਾਥਰ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89" target="_blank">ਕਉ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਬਹੁ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81" target="_blank">ਨੀਰੁ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਪਵਾਇਆ </a> ॥</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Pāthar ka▫o baho nīr pavā▫i▫ā.</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">Stones may be kept under water for a long time.</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%B9" target="_blank">ਨਹ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%88" target="_blank">ਭੀਗੈ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%95" target="_blank">ਅਧਿਕ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86" target="_blank">ਸੂਕਾਇਆ </a> ॥੨॥</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Nah bẖīgai aḏẖik sūkā▫i▫ā. ||2||</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">Even so, they do not absorb the water; they remain hard and dry. ||2|</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080"></span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">MORE</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080"></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%8B" target="_blank">ਜੋ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank">ਪਾਥਰ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਕੀ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%82%E0%A8%88" target="_blank">ਪਾਂਈ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank">ਪਾਇ </a> ॥</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Jo pāthar kī pāʼn▫ī pā▫e.</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">Those who fall at the feet of a stone god-</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8" target="_blank">ਤਿਸ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%80" target="_blank">ਕੀ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%98%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B2" target="_blank">ਘਾਲ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%82%E0%A8%88" target="_blank">ਅਜਾਂਈ </a> <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank">ਜਾਇ </a> ॥੧॥</span></span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Ŧis kī gẖāl ajāʼn▫ī jā▫e. ||1||</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #000080">their work is wasted in vain. ||1||</span></span></span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 90129, member: 5889"] I would like your views on"[/FONT]I remember when I did not bow down to anything in the Golden temple except SGGS several months ago because I thought bowing down to trees, small architecture, stones, marble etc would be "idol worship". mom got mad, etc and I understand her now(quote Bhagat Singh Ji) [B]Your Mom was misguiding you, [U]you did the right thing; [/U]however, I wonder, how come you successfully differentiated between blind bowing and rational bowing while being with your Mom but in the context of bowing to Idols, it becomes respect for you but bowing to the other things your Mom said, doesn’t appear to be sign of respect. Amazing! Isn't it double standard? What Mom said was not sign of respect but what you do before a stone is a sign of respect.[/B] I have I will post them all here now. My reasoning, basically where I am coming from. ALl you have to do is go back and read my posts and those of Randip Singh ji. [B]I was just asking your rationality of questioning other members to back up their views when your own views are just coming from” where I am coming from..” [/B]Bowing down is for respect and not worship. In I[U]ndian culture[/U] NOT bowing down to something greater than you is ignorance. [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Guru[/URL] ji did not say to not bow down. [B]You are mixing things up, bowing to the Idols is not a cultural things, cultural things are done at by large, here that is not the case, you can keep arguing about this, it will never end but it has nothing to do with Gurbani teachings. It depends, as per your own words, from where you come. [U]Cultural and religious acts are certainly different.[/U][/B] What do you mean? I guess if I had too and if there was nothing wrong with it being dirty [B]I tried to give you a point with an example which you just missed it, let me try again. If Guru ji says” that pond is dirty, there is dirt in it”, now question rises“Why Guru ji is telling us that pond is dirty?" It is a hint to stay away from the pond. Same way, why Guru ji saying that such people who have turned to stones are blind, ignorant. Message is clear that hisfollowers should not fall for those stones. If Stone worshiping is condemned, why Guru ji would ask his followers to respect” stones” Please give me a reason![/B] [B] Guru ji took this bowing and worshiping of Idols very seriously, look at the words he used”[/B] [B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A7%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਧੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਗੁੰਗੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A7"][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਧ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਅੰਧਾਰੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Anḏẖe gunge anḏẖ anḏẖār.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਥਰੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਲੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੂਜਹਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A7"][FONT=Raavi]ਮੁਗਧ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0"][FONT=Raavi]ਗਵਾਰ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]/[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] Pāthar le pūjėh mugaḏẖ gavār.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]After reading it, if still you think, bowing (paying respect) to stone is alright, so it be for you, but Gurbani doesn’t support it a bit. You can keep Saying” give the proof” when proof is already there. As I said, do whatever you want to do but at least do not base it on Sikh Scriptures. Bowing to the Idols (whom as Sikhs we think they are just stones) is hypocrisy.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] I bow to my elders even if I don't believe in the same things they do. If I ever meet you I will bow down to you! BOwing down is also a sign of humility. One of our Gurus bowed down and cleaned someone's feet with his beard. (forget exactly what happened there) [B]Again, bowing to elders, bowing to stones cannot be the same. Why we bow to elders? To show respect, but why? Just because they are elders as per own your words. Why to show respect to a stone then? It is not elder? It has no feelings; it doesn’t even know you are bowing.( now You can come up with another idea of your own” well SGGS Ji has no feelings as well..” to continue the argument but remember, it contains Gurbani of our revered Guru unlike the stone which is just a stone)[/B] Yes it is. Both are sign of respect. So you cannot bow down to a neutral stone but you can bow down to a obviously ignorant worshipper? [B]How it can be the same? The ignorant worshiper is a human being, I respect human beings, if he worships stone, it is his choice, why would I mind it? For me “Stone is a stone, a neutral or not”, who worships them, is a human being, he deserves the respect but not the stone by any reason. I will bow to him as I bow before elders, I do not bow to their views.[/B] Well, I think it is the same. All are done to show respect. Oh you didnt want my answer... NOOO really? Are you sure by bowing down you are not worshipping? [B]Your statement is confusing, bowing and worshiping are two different things in context of [U]social behavior and religious ritual acts[/U]. When one bows to a religious entity, bowing is more than paying respect, in social context; it is just a sign of respect. [/B] Yes bowing down is the first step like respect is the first step THEN learning takes place. But you can leave it at the respect stage. You respect but just don't want to learn, tere is nothing wrong with that [B]First step some time turns out to be the last step too. If superficial faith is enough, I have no further comments; if it is more than that, I can continue. [/B] We don't know that That's no proof. [B]In the following Guru Nanak speaks against bowing to others, how in dreams he could have bowed to a stone as per your assumptions. What proof more we need. I have no solution for denials. Here it is again[/B] [B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਉ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਮਹਲੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਹਜੂਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਦੂਜੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B5%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਿਵੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਿਸੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][U][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%80"][FONT=Raavi]ਦਰਵਾਣੀ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਹਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਮੂਲੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%9B"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁਛ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਤਿਸੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/U][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9B%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%9F%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਛੁਟੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਤਾ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਕੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਬੋਲਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%AC"][FONT=Raavi]ਸਾਹਿਬ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਦਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਿਸੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Raavi]੩[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B] [B][FONT=Tahoma]Jā ka▫o mahal hajūr ḏūje nivai kis.[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Ḏar ḏarvāṇī nāhi mūle pucẖẖ ṯis.[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Cẖẖutai ṯā kai bol sāhib naḏar jis. ||3||[/FONT] [/B] [B]More if it is accepted by a rational mind, do we need to respect stones? The words are so strong, there is no doubt that stones are not considered worth to be respected by a Sikh at all as per Gurbani [/B] [B][FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%B0"]ਪਾਥਰ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%89"]ਕਉ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81"]ਬਹੁ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81"]ਨੀਰੁ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86"]ਪਵਾਇਆ [/URL] ॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1]Pāthar ka▫o baho nīr pavā▫i▫ā.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000080]Stones may be kept under water for a long time.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%B9"]ਨਹ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%88"]ਭੀਗੈ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%95"]ਅਧਿਕ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%86"]ਸੂਕਾਇਆ [/URL] ॥੨॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1]Nah bẖīgai aḏẖik sūkā▫i▫ā. ||2||[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000080]Even so, they do not absorb the water; they remain hard and dry. ||2| MORE [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%8B"]ਜੋ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A5%E0%A8%B0"]ਪਾਥਰ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%80"]ਕੀ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%82%E0%A8%88"]ਪਾਂਈ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"]ਪਾਇ [/URL] ॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1]Jo pāthar kī pāʼn▫ī pā▫e.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000080]Those who fall at the feet of a stone god-[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=1][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8"]ਤਿਸ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%80"]ਕੀ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%98%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B2"]ਘਾਲ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%82%E0%A8%88"]ਅਜਾਂਈ [/URL] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"]ਜਾਇ [/URL] ॥੧॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1]Ŧis kī gẖāl ajāʼn▫ī jā▫e. ||1||[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000080]their work is wasted in vain. ||1||[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Sikhs In Temples
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top