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ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
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Gurbani (14-53)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
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Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
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Gurbani (660-685)
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Gurbani (696-703)
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Gurbani (728-750)
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Gurbani (795-831)
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Chhant (843-848)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
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Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
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Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Hard Talk
Sikhism And Salvation
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<blockquote data-quote="Tejwant Singh" data-source="post: 182779" data-attributes="member: 138"><p>No, it is not. There is <strong><em>no</em> 'Concept of Salvation' </strong>in Sikhi. It is in the Abrahamic religions where Salvation means to go to Heaven after death. One is Saved in this manner. In other words, it is like one way/time reincarnation, which is totally opposite to what Gurbani is talking about.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea what you are talking about. What does <strong>'Mokh to Salvation'</strong> mean?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If Mokh is what you say above, then where does <strong>'Salvation</strong>' come into equation?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You still did not elaborate as I asked you in the other thread what Naam Jap means to you. Please elaborate the concept of Naam Jap in Gurbani. You may go back to my post#46.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Mok</u>h</strong> for me means <strong><u>'Gurmat Fulcrum'</u></strong>, simply put. <strong>Moks Duar means <u>'Living Freely sans inner shackles through Sikhi deeds'</u></strong>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All qualities are inner. You have to elaborate what <strong>spirituality and yearning for God</strong> mean.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are you talking about Sikhi Bana? If you are, then I agree. I have no idea about Banas in other religions.</p><p></p><p>Regarding religion, you are incorrect. First and foremost, I do not consider Sikhi a religion, that is why I do not use Sikhism. Religion requires deity which Sikhi has none of and all other religions have their own respective Dogmas. Hence religion matters to them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have already explained what Salvation means and in which religion the concept exists which is opposite to what is in Sikhi if the same word is used. That is why we have to be very careful about the translations. This is the reason I ask everyone, including you to give your personal understanding of the Shabads that people post.</p><p></p><p>As mentioned before, I have no idea what happened to Kabir and Farid. Only Ik Ong Kaar knows that and I do not play Ik Ong Kaar.</p><p></p><p>Lastly, I would like to add that this is the problem when we try to use words like 'Saved, Salvation and others' in the literal translations in English. These are the incorrect terms because they are automatically transported to the concepts of 'Saved and Salvation' in the Abrahamic religions which are <strong>totally opposite </strong>to what the Gurbani is talking about. The reason they are translated like that is because all the original translators of Gurbani were Christians, hence the Biblical slant.</p><p></p><p>The case in point, I purposely posted Bhagat Kabir’s shabad in the last thread but no one noticed the blunder Sant Singh Khalsa, the translator made.</p><p></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>One wears a skin as a jacket, shoes/boots, belt etc. Here, Kabir is comparing naked sadhus with the animals who never wear clothes and hence are born and die naked. It's nothing to do with the skin as the translation indicates. This is just one example.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Out of all translators, Sant Singh Khalsa should know better the difference between the animal skin and the animal itself because he is born and bred in an English speaking country.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Personal understanding is of utmost importance so that we can turn this beautiful poetry into prose in order to practice in our daily lives.</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Tejwant Singh</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tejwant Singh, post: 182779, member: 138"] No, it is not. There is [B][I]no[/I] 'Concept of Salvation' [/B]in Sikhi. It is in the Abrahamic religions where Salvation means to go to Heaven after death. One is Saved in this manner. In other words, it is like one way/time reincarnation, which is totally opposite to what Gurbani is talking about. Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea what you are talking about. What does [B]'Mokh to Salvation'[/B] mean? If Mokh is what you say above, then where does [B]'Salvation[/B]' come into equation? You still did not elaborate as I asked you in the other thread what Naam Jap means to you. Please elaborate the concept of Naam Jap in Gurbani. You may go back to my post#46. [B][U]Mok[/U]h[/B] for me means [B][U]'Gurmat Fulcrum'[/U][/B], simply put. [B]Moks Duar means [U]'Living Freely sans inner shackles through Sikhi deeds'[/U][/B]. All qualities are inner. You have to elaborate what [B]spirituality and yearning for God[/B] mean. Are you talking about Sikhi Bana? If you are, then I agree. I have no idea about Banas in other religions. Regarding religion, you are incorrect. First and foremost, I do not consider Sikhi a religion, that is why I do not use Sikhism. Religion requires deity which Sikhi has none of and all other religions have their own respective Dogmas. Hence religion matters to them. I have already explained what Salvation means and in which religion the concept exists which is opposite to what is in Sikhi if the same word is used. That is why we have to be very careful about the translations. This is the reason I ask everyone, including you to give your personal understanding of the Shabads that people post. As mentioned before, I have no idea what happened to Kabir and Farid. Only Ik Ong Kaar knows that and I do not play Ik Ong Kaar. Lastly, I would like to add that this is the problem when we try to use words like 'Saved, Salvation and others' in the literal translations in English. These are the incorrect terms because they are automatically transported to the concepts of 'Saved and Salvation' in the Abrahamic religions which are [B]totally opposite [/B]to what the Gurbani is talking about. The reason they are translated like that is because all the original translators of Gurbani were Christians, hence the Biblical slant. The case in point, I purposely posted Bhagat Kabir’s shabad in the last thread but no one noticed the blunder Sant Singh Khalsa, the translator made. [B] One wears a skin as a jacket, shoes/boots, belt etc. Here, Kabir is comparing naked sadhus with the animals who never wear clothes and hence are born and die naked. It's nothing to do with the skin as the translation indicates. This is just one example. Out of all translators, Sant Singh Khalsa should know better the difference between the animal skin and the animal itself because he is born and bred in an English speaking country. Personal understanding is of utmost importance so that we can turn this beautiful poetry into prose in order to practice in our daily lives. Tejwant Singh[/b] [/QUOTE]
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