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ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
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Chhant (242-249)
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Thittee (296-300)
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Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikh Rehat Maryada: The Why & The Wherefore
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<blockquote data-quote="JourneyOflife" data-source="post: 201151" data-attributes="member: 20695"><p>Come on man, are you really going to resort to this? No, I am not an enforcer. But if you're going to make claims about the SRM "reducing" the SGGS to the role of a deity, you're actually going to need to demonstrate that its net effect has been negative, rather than positive. I'll be the first to admit that it isn't perfect and could use some updating, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go around telling people its horrible and was created because the individuals who drafted it were just so darn evil that they wanted to define Sikhi for everyone else and tell us how to live our lives, for no other reason than "it probably seemed like a good idea at the time".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Aside from the case of Mata Sahib Kaur being the 'mother' of the Khalsa, no.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Mata Sahib Kaur,</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This discussion has dissolved into tip-toeing around the issue. You've already stated that the stance on the SRM is your personal opinion. That's fine, and you're entitled to it. But I'm sorry, when you make points about the SRM "itemising the relevant rituals and ceremonies for a religion that was born out of rejection of such", it just shows a general lack of awareness about concepts like Miri-Piri, identity politics and the role of the Khalsa within the Panth.</p><p></p><p>You claim the SRM has "reduced" the SGGS to a "deity". Did you know there were actual Hindu idols being taken into Harmandir Sahib (even at the expense of having to remove SGGS from the premises) before its drafting? Did you know members of 'low-castes' were barred from dipping in the Sarovar surrounding the Darbar Sahib complex because they were seen as been impure and unclean? Did you know the British had vowed to convert every Sikh to Christianity and toss Sikhi into the dustbin of history, to the point where they hoped that within a few generations, Punjabis would have to go to museums and look at old photos to be able to see what turbaned Sikh men and women used to look like?</p><p></p><p>No? Because it was the leaders of the Singh Sabha movement (the people who drafted the modern SRM) that removed those idols from Darbar Sahib, brought back the SGGS ji, removed the restrictions on low-castes within the premises of the Harmandir Sahib, and prevented Sikhi from being wiped out by the British and/or absorbed into Hinduism. Now, are you going to tell me the fact that the SRM basically barricated Sikhi from outside malevolent forces and removed idols/caste distinctions at Sri Harmandir Sahib, was a bad thing?</p><p></p><p>Did you know Rehatnamas have existed since the early 18th century? Did you know Guru Gobind Singh ji himself actually gave the Khalsa the right to draft Rehatnamas, revise them, and update them when necessary? These people didn't draft the SRM just because they were bored or wanted to ifringe on others' freedom to practice Sikhi and just "felt like it would be a good idea at the time". For all the whining that goes on about how Sikhi is so gosh darn Brahmanical these days and longing to go back to the good-old days before the modern SRM was drafted, people don't even understand that Sikhi WAS actually at one point controlled by real Brahman/Hindu forces who did not even hesitate to bring actual Hindu idols into the Darbar Sahib when they felt like it. These people actually DID regard the SGGS as just another deity and not just that, even turned the human Sikh Gurus into statues and brought them into the Darbar Sahib complex along with all the Hindu images and idols. Sikhi pre-SRM was a religion which would have disappeared within a few generations: on the one hand, the actual 'leaders' were too busy rotting it at the core and turning it into another branch on the tree of Hinduism. On the other hand, the British were fearless in their proselytizing of Christianity and desire to rid Punjab of Sikhs once and for all.</p><p></p><p>For all its faults, it was the Singh Sabha movement which turned all this around. They kicked out the idols in Darbar Sahib, barricaded Sikhi from the British by spreading the Khalsa identity among the masses and then removed the previous leaders (who were non-Khalsa, and only interested in turning Sikhi into another branch on the Hindu tree) and replaced them with the Khalsa at the helm of Sikh institutions. That is the Khalsa's rightful place, not according to me, but according to Guru Gobind Singh ji. Nothing they did was against Sikhi, the Guru actually has given the Khalsa the right to draft Rehats and implement as necessary.</p><p></p><p>You may not like the SRM and that's fine, but at the very least, take the time to read up on what was happening in the Panth before it was drafted. Contrary to what you may feel, Sikh leaders aren't all out to spoil your fun or intrude on your right to practice as you see fit, many of them are simply interested in protecting Sikhi and will take the necessary measures to safeguard it when the need arises. By the way, the Rehats have historically only applied to Baptized Sikhs, so if you haven't taken Amrit, no, it doesn't apply to you. You can let out a sigh of relief now, Guru Gobind Singh ji actually did recognize that not everybody would want to join the Khalsa, and he was fine with it. Non-Baptized Sikhs like you (and me) are not bound by the Rehat at all, and are free to do as we wish. Historically there has always been a distinction between a 'regular Sikh' and a 'Baptized Sikh', and the current Rehat has eliminated that distinction by simply redefining 'Sikh' to mean 'Khalsa', but it was a necessary sacrifice in order to rid Sikhi of the malicious forces mentioned above. If you want to get more into this point, I can do so.</p><p></p><p>I don't know about you pa ji, but even though I recognize the current SRM has its shortcomings, I'm also able to see how its overall net effect has been tremendously positive.</p><p></p><p>Last point: they exist for different reasons. SGGS is a spiritual compilation. The SRM is a political document. Both have their place within Sikhi, and both are necessary to Sikhi's survival. The primary purpose of the SRM is not to force people to abide by somebody else's interpretation of Sikhi; it is to create a distinction between the Khalsa and non-Sikh religions and uphold that separate identity. It's no surprise that even the most vicious among the "Sikhs are Hindus" crowd cannot find a way to account for the distinctiveness of Guru Gobind Singh's Khalsa without making very outlandish (and easily disprovable) claims. The Khalsa Panth is the reason Sikhi did not turn into another Buddhism or Jainism in India. The SRM is the document which solidifies that distinctiveness. If you don't want to follow it that's fine, but that doesn't take away from the priceless role it has played in preserving Sikhi into the 21st century.</p><p></p><p>Sikhs should actually take the time to learn about their history. The fact that Sikhs lack knowledge of their own history is one of the most destructive realities within the Panth today. I'd even go as far as saying you can't properly understand the many different dynamics at play within Sikhi (like what we've witnessed here with the Rehat conversation) without actually dedicating some time to learn about the history of Sikhi and Sikh politics. Claiming that most Sikh history is corrupted is a very outlandish claim and will require substantial evidence to back it up. There may be a level of hagiography to the accounts in the Sakhis, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many are actually still extremely useful in our study of the past. Not to mention, the Sakhis are a VERY small blip on the massive spectrum that is Sikh history, so even if someone wished to discard them altogether, it would still leave no shortage of important documents and historical collections needing to be studied.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JourneyOflife, post: 201151, member: 20695"] Come on man, are you really going to resort to this? No, I am not an enforcer. But if you're going to make claims about the SRM "reducing" the SGGS to the role of a deity, you're actually going to need to demonstrate that its net effect has been negative, rather than positive. I'll be the first to admit that it isn't perfect and could use some updating, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go around telling people its horrible and was created because the individuals who drafted it were just so darn evil that they wanted to define Sikhi for everyone else and tell us how to live our lives, for no other reason than "it probably seemed like a good idea at the time". No. Aside from the case of Mata Sahib Kaur being the 'mother' of the Khalsa, no. Mata Sahib Kaur, This discussion has dissolved into tip-toeing around the issue. You've already stated that the stance on the SRM is your personal opinion. That's fine, and you're entitled to it. But I'm sorry, when you make points about the SRM "itemising the relevant rituals and ceremonies for a religion that was born out of rejection of such", it just shows a general lack of awareness about concepts like Miri-Piri, identity politics and the role of the Khalsa within the Panth. You claim the SRM has "reduced" the SGGS to a "deity". Did you know there were actual Hindu idols being taken into Harmandir Sahib (even at the expense of having to remove SGGS from the premises) before its drafting? Did you know members of 'low-castes' were barred from dipping in the Sarovar surrounding the Darbar Sahib complex because they were seen as been impure and unclean? Did you know the British had vowed to convert every Sikh to Christianity and toss Sikhi into the dustbin of history, to the point where they hoped that within a few generations, Punjabis would have to go to museums and look at old photos to be able to see what turbaned Sikh men and women used to look like? No? Because it was the leaders of the Singh Sabha movement (the people who drafted the modern SRM) that removed those idols from Darbar Sahib, brought back the SGGS ji, removed the restrictions on low-castes within the premises of the Harmandir Sahib, and prevented Sikhi from being wiped out by the British and/or absorbed into Hinduism. Now, are you going to tell me the fact that the SRM basically barricated Sikhi from outside malevolent forces and removed idols/caste distinctions at Sri Harmandir Sahib, was a bad thing? Did you know Rehatnamas have existed since the early 18th century? Did you know Guru Gobind Singh ji himself actually gave the Khalsa the right to draft Rehatnamas, revise them, and update them when necessary? These people didn't draft the SRM just because they were bored or wanted to ifringe on others' freedom to practice Sikhi and just "felt like it would be a good idea at the time". For all the whining that goes on about how Sikhi is so gosh darn Brahmanical these days and longing to go back to the good-old days before the modern SRM was drafted, people don't even understand that Sikhi WAS actually at one point controlled by real Brahman/Hindu forces who did not even hesitate to bring actual Hindu idols into the Darbar Sahib when they felt like it. These people actually DID regard the SGGS as just another deity and not just that, even turned the human Sikh Gurus into statues and brought them into the Darbar Sahib complex along with all the Hindu images and idols. Sikhi pre-SRM was a religion which would have disappeared within a few generations: on the one hand, the actual 'leaders' were too busy rotting it at the core and turning it into another branch on the tree of Hinduism. On the other hand, the British were fearless in their proselytizing of Christianity and desire to rid Punjab of Sikhs once and for all. For all its faults, it was the Singh Sabha movement which turned all this around. They kicked out the idols in Darbar Sahib, barricaded Sikhi from the British by spreading the Khalsa identity among the masses and then removed the previous leaders (who were non-Khalsa, and only interested in turning Sikhi into another branch on the Hindu tree) and replaced them with the Khalsa at the helm of Sikh institutions. That is the Khalsa's rightful place, not according to me, but according to Guru Gobind Singh ji. Nothing they did was against Sikhi, the Guru actually has given the Khalsa the right to draft Rehats and implement as necessary. You may not like the SRM and that's fine, but at the very least, take the time to read up on what was happening in the Panth before it was drafted. Contrary to what you may feel, Sikh leaders aren't all out to spoil your fun or intrude on your right to practice as you see fit, many of them are simply interested in protecting Sikhi and will take the necessary measures to safeguard it when the need arises. By the way, the Rehats have historically only applied to Baptized Sikhs, so if you haven't taken Amrit, no, it doesn't apply to you. You can let out a sigh of relief now, Guru Gobind Singh ji actually did recognize that not everybody would want to join the Khalsa, and he was fine with it. Non-Baptized Sikhs like you (and me) are not bound by the Rehat at all, and are free to do as we wish. Historically there has always been a distinction between a 'regular Sikh' and a 'Baptized Sikh', and the current Rehat has eliminated that distinction by simply redefining 'Sikh' to mean 'Khalsa', but it was a necessary sacrifice in order to rid Sikhi of the malicious forces mentioned above. If you want to get more into this point, I can do so. I don't know about you pa ji, but even though I recognize the current SRM has its shortcomings, I'm also able to see how its overall net effect has been tremendously positive. Last point: they exist for different reasons. SGGS is a spiritual compilation. The SRM is a political document. Both have their place within Sikhi, and both are necessary to Sikhi's survival. The primary purpose of the SRM is not to force people to abide by somebody else's interpretation of Sikhi; it is to create a distinction between the Khalsa and non-Sikh religions and uphold that separate identity. It's no surprise that even the most vicious among the "Sikhs are Hindus" crowd cannot find a way to account for the distinctiveness of Guru Gobind Singh's Khalsa without making very outlandish (and easily disprovable) claims. The Khalsa Panth is the reason Sikhi did not turn into another Buddhism or Jainism in India. The SRM is the document which solidifies that distinctiveness. If you don't want to follow it that's fine, but that doesn't take away from the priceless role it has played in preserving Sikhi into the 21st century. Sikhs should actually take the time to learn about their history. The fact that Sikhs lack knowledge of their own history is one of the most destructive realities within the Panth today. I'd even go as far as saying you can't properly understand the many different dynamics at play within Sikhi (like what we've witnessed here with the Rehat conversation) without actually dedicating some time to learn about the history of Sikhi and Sikh politics. Claiming that most Sikh history is corrupted is a very outlandish claim and will require substantial evidence to back it up. There may be a level of hagiography to the accounts in the Sakhis, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many are actually still extremely useful in our study of the past. Not to mention, the Sakhis are a VERY small blip on the massive spectrum that is Sikh history, so even if someone wished to discard them altogether, it would still leave no shortage of important documents and historical collections needing to be studied. [/QUOTE]
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