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Sanctuary Of The Saints = Babas And Deras?
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<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 179320" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>Here is the full shabad from Ang 51. I do not know if having the complete shabad changes the significance of Sanctuary of the Saints for you.</p><p></p><p>ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥</p><p>Sirīrāg mėhlā 5.</p><p>Siree Raag, </p><p>Fifth Mehl:</p><p></p><p>ਸੰਚਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਪੂਜਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥ </p><p>Sancẖ har ḏẖan pūj saṯgur cẖẖod sagal vikār. </p><p>Gather in the Wealth of the Lord, worship the True Guru, and give up all your corrupt ways.</p><p></p><p>ਜਿਨਿ ਤੂੰ ਸਾਜਿ ਸਵਾਰਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ </p><p>Jin ṯūʼn sāj savāri▫ā har simar ho▫e uḏẖār. ||1||</p><p>Meditate in remembrance on the Lord who created and adorned you, and you shall be saved. ||1||</p><p></p><p>ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਏਕੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥ </p><p>Jap man nām ek apār. </p><p>O mind, chant the Name of the One, the Unique and Infinite Lord.</p><p></p><p>ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਦੀਆ ਰਿਦੇ ਕਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ </p><p>Parān man ṯan jinėh ḏī▫ā riḏe kā āḏẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o. </p><p>He gave you the praanaa, the breath of life, and your mind and body. He is the Support of the heart. ||1||Pause||</p><p></p><p>ਕਾਮਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਮਾਤੇ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥</p><p>Kām kroḏẖ ahaʼnkār māṯe vi▫āpi▫ā sansār. </p><p>The world is drunk, engrossed in sexual desire, anger and egotism.</p><p></p><p>ਪਉ ਸੰਤ ਸਰਣੀ ਲਾਗੁ ਚਰਣੀ ਮਿਟੈ ਦੂਖੁ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ </p><p>Pa▫o sanṯ sarṇī lāg cẖarṇī mitai ḏūkẖ anḏẖār. ||2|| </p><p>Seek the Sanctuary of the Saints, and fall at their feet; your suffering and darkness shall be removed. ||2||</p><p></p><p>ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਏਹ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰ ॥ </p><p>Saṯ sanṯokẖ ḏa▫i▫ā kamāvai eh karṇī sār. </p><p>Practice truth, contentment and kindness; this is the most excellent way of life.</p><p></p><p>ਆਪੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ ਰੇਣਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਦੇਇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥੩॥</p><p>Āp cẖẖod sabẖ ho▫e reṇā jis ḏe▫e parabẖ nirankār. ||3|| </p><p>One who is so blessed by the Formless Lord God renounces selfishness, and becomes the dust of all. ||3||</p><p></p><p>ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਪਾਸਾਰੁ ॥ </p><p>Jo ḏīsai so sagal ṯūʼnhai pasri▫ā pāsār. </p><p>All that is seen is You, Lord, the expansion of the expanse.</p><p></p><p>ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਕਾਟਿਆ ਸਗਲ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੯੫॥ </p><p>Kaho Nānak gur bẖaram kāti▫ā sagal barahm bīcẖār. ||4||25||95|| </p><p>Says Nanak, the Guru has removed my doubts; I recognize God in all. ||4||25||95||</p><p></p><p>The shabd in the 5th mehla are the words of Guru Arjan Dev. In the rehao line he says </p><p></p><p>ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਦੀਆ ਰਿਦੇ ਕਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ </p><p>Parān man ṯan jinėh ḏī▫ā riḏe kā āḏẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o. </p><p>He gave you the praanaa, the breath of life, and your mind and body. He is the Support of the heart. ||1||Pause||</p><p></p><p>Just a question, but I am not clear why you equate Sanctuary of the Saints = Babas and Deras. Instead of other equations. That is just some confusion on my part. Why you zoned in on babas and deras?</p><p></p><p>Anyway, the shabad lays out a pathway impossible to reach through babas in a dera cuture. <em>Seek the sanctuary of the saints and fall at their feet,</em> with the intention of practicing truth, kindness and compassion. </p><p></p><p>In dera practice the baba is the source of blessing and the efforts of the disciple are under the direction of the baba, often for the baba's benefit . </p><p></p><p>Yet, in this shabad blessing comes from the Nirankar, the formless lord. The blessings are life, mind and body and support of the heart. Can a baba could give these blessings?</p><p></p><p>Does a baba really remove spiritual doubts from without? Is the shabad telling us that this work is done from within?</p><p></p><p>I ask this because Guru Arjan Dev is saying that when we live that excellent life of truth, kindness and compassion, and if we turn our sight only to the Akaal and Nirankar, then we are able to renounce selfishness and see God in All. </p><p></p><p>We do the work with the support of the Formless and Timeless Nirankar. No human intermediary to give instructions and then garnish the wages of our devotion. </p><p></p><p>That is just my quick sense of what is being said. A human baba is a mere mortal, who gives and who takes. The real baba is timeless and formless, gives and asks nothing in return. I have not answered the question who are the Saints. I do suspect the meaning changes depending on the context of the shabad. I doubt the sants would be self-seekers doling out blessings for a price. Rather, the dust of their feet, maybe the residue of their own devotion, removes suffering and does not add to the worldly burdens of a devotee.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 179320, member: 35"] Here is the full shabad from Ang 51. I do not know if having the complete shabad changes the significance of Sanctuary of the Saints for you. ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Sirīrāg mėhlā 5. Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl: ਸੰਚਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਪੂਜਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਸਗਲ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥ Sancẖ har ḏẖan pūj saṯgur cẖẖod sagal vikār. Gather in the Wealth of the Lord, worship the True Guru, and give up all your corrupt ways. ਜਿਨਿ ਤੂੰ ਸਾਜਿ ਸਵਾਰਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ Jin ṯūʼn sāj savāri▫ā har simar ho▫e uḏẖār. ||1|| Meditate in remembrance on the Lord who created and adorned you, and you shall be saved. ||1|| ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਨਾਮੁ ਏਕੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥ Jap man nām ek apār. O mind, chant the Name of the One, the Unique and Infinite Lord. ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਦੀਆ ਰਿਦੇ ਕਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Parān man ṯan jinėh ḏī▫ā riḏe kā āḏẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o. He gave you the praanaa, the breath of life, and your mind and body. He is the Support of the heart. ||1||Pause|| ਕਾਮਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧਿ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਿ ਮਾਤੇ ਵਿਆਪਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ Kām kroḏẖ ahaʼnkār māṯe vi▫āpi▫ā sansār. The world is drunk, engrossed in sexual desire, anger and egotism. ਪਉ ਸੰਤ ਸਰਣੀ ਲਾਗੁ ਚਰਣੀ ਮਿਟੈ ਦੂਖੁ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ Pa▫o sanṯ sarṇī lāg cẖarṇī mitai ḏūkẖ anḏẖār. ||2|| Seek the Sanctuary of the Saints, and fall at their feet; your suffering and darkness shall be removed. ||2|| ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਏਹ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰ ॥ Saṯ sanṯokẖ ḏa▫i▫ā kamāvai eh karṇī sār. Practice truth, contentment and kindness; this is the most excellent way of life. ਆਪੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਸਭ ਹੋਇ ਰੇਣਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਦੇਇ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ॥੩॥ Āp cẖẖod sabẖ ho▫e reṇā jis ḏe▫e parabẖ nirankār. ||3|| One who is so blessed by the Formless Lord God renounces selfishness, and becomes the dust of all. ||3|| ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸੋ ਸਗਲ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਪਾਸਾਰੁ ॥ Jo ḏīsai so sagal ṯūʼnhai pasri▫ā pāsār. All that is seen is You, Lord, the expansion of the expanse. ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਕਾਟਿਆ ਸਗਲ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੯੫॥ Kaho Nānak gur bẖaram kāti▫ā sagal barahm bīcẖār. ||4||25||95|| Says Nanak, the Guru has removed my doubts; I recognize God in all. ||4||25||95|| The shabd in the 5th mehla are the words of Guru Arjan Dev. In the rehao line he says ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਦੀਆ ਰਿਦੇ ਕਾ ਆਧਾਰੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Parān man ṯan jinėh ḏī▫ā riḏe kā āḏẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o. He gave you the praanaa, the breath of life, and your mind and body. He is the Support of the heart. ||1||Pause|| Just a question, but I am not clear why you equate Sanctuary of the Saints = Babas and Deras. Instead of other equations. That is just some confusion on my part. Why you zoned in on babas and deras? Anyway, the shabad lays out a pathway impossible to reach through babas in a dera cuture. [I]Seek the sanctuary of the saints and fall at their feet,[/I] with the intention of practicing truth, kindness and compassion. In dera practice the baba is the source of blessing and the efforts of the disciple are under the direction of the baba, often for the baba's benefit . Yet, in this shabad blessing comes from the Nirankar, the formless lord. The blessings are life, mind and body and support of the heart. Can a baba could give these blessings? Does a baba really remove spiritual doubts from without? Is the shabad telling us that this work is done from within? I ask this because Guru Arjan Dev is saying that when we live that excellent life of truth, kindness and compassion, and if we turn our sight only to the Akaal and Nirankar, then we are able to renounce selfishness and see God in All. We do the work with the support of the Formless and Timeless Nirankar. No human intermediary to give instructions and then garnish the wages of our devotion. That is just my quick sense of what is being said. A human baba is a mere mortal, who gives and who takes. The real baba is timeless and formless, gives and asks nothing in return. I have not answered the question who are the Saints. I do suspect the meaning changes depending on the context of the shabad. I doubt the sants would be self-seekers doling out blessings for a price. Rather, the dust of their feet, maybe the residue of their own devotion, removes suffering and does not add to the worldly burdens of a devotee. [/QUOTE]
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