☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Rights Of A Sikh Woman
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 116248" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>Aman ji</p><p></p><p>Just now I have had time to read this article carefully and slowly. It starts out with an affirmation of the equality of women in Sikhism. Then we have the question from Sandy, with a tart response from whomever is answering her.</p><p></p><p>It is true that Sandy has based her question on a wrong assumption. But the response is not much better. It seems almost like the story of 8 blind men trying to describe an elephant. They all got part of the picture but not the entire effect.</p><p></p><p>That part is quoted below.... and I see a lot wrong just on the facts with the reply. Some of it is dead wrong from a historical perspective ...unless we want to assume that all the history of Sikh women from Guru Amar Das to Guru Gobind Singh is a total fabrication.</p><p></p><p>Here it is -- and it would be interesting to have some member dialog on the responses that Sandy received. </p><p></p><p><strong>Quoted material</strong></p><p></p><p> <span style="color: DarkGreen"><strong>The Question</strong>:</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">[I would] just like to say that in the Q&A session of "What right do Sikh women have?" i agree with all but one think That is no women can become one of the Panj Pyare (5 beloved). This is due to the fact that when Shir Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked for a head, no women stood up only men did. Therefore only men can be panj pyare. If women in thouse days had the courage to standup then it would of been different. Sorry if this offend anyone. Please feel free to comment on what i have said. --Sandy</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"><strong>The reply</strong>:</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">I absolutely could not resist responding to your post Sandy. No offense taken. However, it just makes me realize how much more we need to educate our generation. No offense intended here either. When we use a historical event as an example, then in all fairness we need to evaluate the social fabric of the time. At that time when 5 Pyare were called for, you say no women volunteered. I ask you this:</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"> 1. How many women were present in the congregation to begin with (ratio of men and women).</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">2. What was the norm of the time? For women to stay home and care for the family or be the bread winners or the warriors? Social science is at play here.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">3. Were women back then encouraged to volunteer for tasks like there that were usually taken up on by men?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">4. So you can say that no women were administrators or owned businesses or had the rights to vote at that time so they shouldn't be allowed to own businesses, be presidents of companies or have the right to vote? </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">5. You say that back then women had no courage to stand up? Well, it was extremely rare for women to be encouraged to stand up. This is a problem that persists even today. If you keep someone oppressed from the day they are born, how can they know to be any different?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">6. Guru Nanak defied the norm of the day in granting women equal rights. That is why he was a pioneer, a visionary, a person of God to whom God's word was revealed. </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">7. At that time no children or elderly volunteered either. So does that mean that they did not have the courage? How many other factors are we going to come up with to discriminate against each other? So I guess age should be a factor in picking our Panj Piare. Oh wait, did any vegetarians volunteer? Did any Sushi lovers volunteer? Not to humor anyone, but where does this end?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">It is a provoking topic and I am glad you brought it up, however your argument is very weak and irrational. Your comment defies the basic principles of equality. We need to reflect on history and think about why our Guru's indeed encouraged us to defy the beliefs of that time. Then why is it that some people insist on in infusing doubt and uncertainty in the Sikh community. With all due respect for your opinion that I whole heartedly disagree with, no offense is intended. </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">We must learn our history and know where we come from and only then we can move forward. We have much to learn. </span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 116248, member: 35"] Aman ji Just now I have had time to read this article carefully and slowly. It starts out with an affirmation of the equality of women in Sikhism. Then we have the question from Sandy, with a tart response from whomever is answering her. It is true that Sandy has based her question on a wrong assumption. But the response is not much better. It seems almost like the story of 8 blind men trying to describe an elephant. They all got part of the picture but not the entire effect. That part is quoted below.... and I see a lot wrong just on the facts with the reply. Some of it is dead wrong from a historical perspective ...unless we want to assume that all the history of Sikh women from Guru Amar Das to Guru Gobind Singh is a total fabrication. Here it is -- and it would be interesting to have some member dialog on the responses that Sandy received. [B]Quoted material[/B] [COLOR=DarkGreen][B]The Question[/B]: [I would] just like to say that in the Q&A session of "What right do Sikh women have?" i agree with all but one think That is no women can become one of the Panj Pyare (5 beloved). This is due to the fact that when Shir Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked for a head, no women stood up only men did. Therefore only men can be panj pyare. If women in thouse days had the courage to standup then it would of been different. Sorry if this offend anyone. Please feel free to comment on what i have said. --Sandy [B]The reply[/B]: I absolutely could not resist responding to your post Sandy. No offense taken. However, it just makes me realize how much more we need to educate our generation. No offense intended here either. When we use a historical event as an example, then in all fairness we need to evaluate the social fabric of the time. At that time when 5 Pyare were called for, you say no women volunteered. I ask you this: 1. How many women were present in the congregation to begin with (ratio of men and women). 2. What was the norm of the time? For women to stay home and care for the family or be the bread winners or the warriors? Social science is at play here. 3. Were women back then encouraged to volunteer for tasks like there that were usually taken up on by men? 4. So you can say that no women were administrators or owned businesses or had the rights to vote at that time so they shouldn't be allowed to own businesses, be presidents of companies or have the right to vote? 5. You say that back then women had no courage to stand up? Well, it was extremely rare for women to be encouraged to stand up. This is a problem that persists even today. If you keep someone oppressed from the day they are born, how can they know to be any different? 6. Guru Nanak defied the norm of the day in granting women equal rights. That is why he was a pioneer, a visionary, a person of God to whom God's word was revealed. 7. At that time no children or elderly volunteered either. So does that mean that they did not have the courage? How many other factors are we going to come up with to discriminate against each other? So I guess age should be a factor in picking our Panj Piare. Oh wait, did any vegetarians volunteer? Did any Sushi lovers volunteer? Not to humor anyone, but where does this end? It is a provoking topic and I am glad you brought it up, however your argument is very weak and irrational. Your comment defies the basic principles of equality. We need to reflect on history and think about why our Guru's indeed encouraged us to defy the beliefs of that time. Then why is it that some people insist on in infusing doubt and uncertainty in the Sikh community. With all due respect for your opinion that I whole heartedly disagree with, no offense is intended. We must learn our history and know where we come from and only then we can move forward. We have much to learn. [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Rights Of A Sikh Woman
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top