Grammer / Vyakarn Request For Assistance With Marking Tests

[Tejwant Singh]

I'm reminded a bit of English words bear (animal) and bare (naked!).

They are both naked.

 

[Ishna]

Lesson Four
Verbs/Absolutive/Transitive/Present Tense

Exercise 4A
Provide all possible forms of the verbs listed to fit each subject:

1.
subject + (a)verb; (b)verb; (c)verb
ਪੰਡਤੁ + ਜੀਵਿ; ਮਰਿ; ਬੁਝਿ

Word analysis
ਪੰਡਤੁ = pandit (masculine singular noun, 1st declension ends in ੁ)
ਜੀਵਿ = live (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਜੀਵ)
ਮਰਿ = die (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਮਰ, ends in ਰ)
ਬੁਝਿ = understand (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਬੁਝ)

Attempt (a)
ਪੰਡਤੁ ਜੀਵੈ the pandit lives (3rd person singular present tense verb ending with ੈ - most common ending)
ਪੰਡਤੁ ਜੀਵੇ the pandit lives (3rd person singular present tense verb ending with ੇ - least common except with ਰ)

Attempt (b)
ਪੰਡਤੁ ਮਰੇ the pandit dies
ਪੰਡਤੁ ਮਰੈ the pandit dies (less common as verb ends in ਰ)

Attempt (c)
ਪੰਡਤੁ ਬੁਝੈ the pandit understands
ਪੰਡਤੁ ਬੁਝੇ the pandit understands (less common)

2.
subject + (d)verb; (e)verb; (f)verb
ਤੂ + ਭਾਲਿ; ਤਾਰਿ; ਜਾਣਿ

Word analysis
ਤੂ = you (2nd person singular pronoun, gender neutral)
ਭਾਲਿ = search for, seek (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਭਾਲ)
ਤਾਰਿ = save (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਤਾਰ, ends in ਰ)
ਜਾਣਿ = know, consider (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਜਾਣ)

Attempt (d)
ਤੂ ਭਾਲਹਿ = you seek (2nd person singular present tense verb ending with ਹਿ - only choice)

Attempt (e)
ਤੂ ਤਾਰਹਿ = you save

Attempt (f)
ਤੂ ਜਾਣਹਿ = you know

3.
subject + (g)verb; (h)verb; (i)verb
ਪੰਡਿਤ + ਆਖਿ; ਕਹਿ; ਪੜਿ

Word analysis
ਪੰਡਿਤ pandits (masculine plural noun, 1st declension plural ends in mukta [no vowel sign])
ਆਖਿ say, tell, utter (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਆਖ)
ਕਹਿ say, tell, utter (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਕਹ)
ਪੜਿ read, recite (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਪੜ)

Attempt (g)
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਆਖਨਿ੍ = the pandits say (3rd person plural present tense verb ending with ਨਿ੍)
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਆਖਹਿ = the pandits say (ending with ਹਿ, equally common)

Attempt (h)
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਹਨਿ੍ = the pandits say
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਹਹਿ = the pandits say [don't ask me how to pronounce this one!]

Attempt (i)
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਨਿ੍ = the pandits recite
ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਹਿ = the pandits recite

4.
subject + (j)verb; (k)verb; (l)verb
ਹਓੁ + ਮੰਗਿ; ਜਪਿ; ਸੇਵਿ

Word analysis
ਹਓੁ = I (1st person singular pronoun, gender neutral)
ਮੰਗਿ = ask, ask for, beg (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਮੰਗ. Also ਮਾਂਗਿ)
ਜਪਿ = recite (inwardly) (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਜਪ)
ਸੇਵਿ = serve (verb, absolutive, consonant stem ਸੇਵ)

Attempt (j)
ਹਓੁ ਮੰਗਾ
ਹਓੁ ਸੰਗੀ
ਹਓੁ ਸੰਗਓੁ = I ask for (1st person singular present tense verb ending with ਾ, ੀ and ਓੁ, all are equally common)

Attempt (k)
ਹਓੁ ਜਪਾ
ਹਓੁ ਜਪੀ
ਹਓੁ ਜਪਓੁ = I recite inwardly

Attempt (l)
ਹਓੁ ਸੇਵਾ
ਹਓੁ ਸੇਵੀ
ਹਓੁ ਸੇਵਓੁ = I serve


Fiew!

 

[Aisha]

Aisha ji

I'm glad to motivate others to learn Gurmukhi or other languages. :cheerleaders:

I'm a slow learner and I've had a teach-yourself-Punjabi (speaking) book and audio CDs for a couple of years but haven't had much luck with it. I'm finding this course much easier to understand although still very challenging.

Arabic is well known for being a tricky language to learn so I don't envy the task. Do you do your salat in Arabic? (feel free to pass on this question, I know it's a bit personal)

I've found learning to read Gurmukhi script quite easy. The letters I struggled with the most are 'm' ਮ and 's' ਸ. It only sunk in when there was a guy at Gurdwara talking to his friend about the writing on the noticeboard and he said to his friend that it wasn't m, but s, because 's stops the top'.



11. ਗਾਲੀ ਕੂੜੀਆ = things false = false things

The exercises I've done so far are only for nouns, pronouns and adjectives, so the translations might look a little odd at this stage.

What I'm trying to do is present the Gurmukhi, followed by a word-for-word English translation (as far as I can), then the proper English translation last (rearranging the words so they make proper sense in English). I did it this way to try and show others which Gurmukhi word corresponds to which English word before reshuffling.

It's hard to be clear. :interestedkudi:

Ishna Ji, thank you for the reply!

At the community college by my home, they have classes where they teach reading and writing Punjabi. Do you think that it would be more useful/easy to learn it as part of a class from an instructor, or is it better to do it like you are, at your own pace?

Also, is there more than one type of written Punjabi? Is the dialect of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji different than that of everyday spoken Punjabi?

And yes, I do my salat in Arabic, it is a requirement. There are translations of the prayers available online, but I thought it would be nice to be able to do it without needing to check the translation everyday to make sure I have the right meaning down. Then I found out that there is vocabulary in the Qur'an (Classical Arabic) that learning Modern Standard Arabic wouldn't teach me anyways. Feels bad lol.

 

[Ishna]

At the community college by my home, they have classes where they teach reading and writing Punjabi. Do you think that it would be more useful/easy to learn it as part of a class from an instructor, or is it better to do it like you are, at your own pace?

I'm happy to learn reading/writing on my own at my own pace, but for pronounciation I'd prefer face-to-face help. I think I'm probably a bit too slow for a class when it comes to pronounciation. When I've got that worked out then it would be fun in a conversation class, but they don't offer any Punjabi classes in my city except the Punjabi class for kids at Gurdwara.

Also, is there more than one type of written Punjabi? Is the dialect of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji different than that of everyday spoken Punjabi?

Punjabi can be written in Gurmukhi or Shamukhi scripts. I'm only learning Gurmukhi as that's the script of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There's a bunch of different languages in Guru Granth Sahib Ji - I've got a hell of a lot to learn.

And yes, I do my salat in Arabic, it is a requirement. There are translations of the prayers available online, but I thought it would be nice to be able to do it without needing to check the translation everyday to make sure I have the right meaning down. Then I found out that there is vocabulary in the Qur'an (Classical Arabic) that learning Modern Standard Arabic wouldn't teach me anyways. Feels bad lol.

Nice. Your Classical Arabic problem is the same as mine - Guru Granth Sahib Ji has slightly different spelling and grammar rules than modern Punjabi. I'm most interested in learning to read and sing Granth Sahib, so that's what I'm focusing on for now. I hope some of the skills will cross over into modern Punjabi when I'm ready.

So my question to you is - why learn modern Arabic if you need to learn Classical Arabic?

 

[Aisha]

Ishna Ji,

here's the easiest way I can explain it:

Nobody today actually speaks Classical Arabic (CA) or Modern Standard Arabic (MSA). There's no country you can go to in the middle east where you can walk into a shop and expect to be able to converse with the shop keepers perfectly with either of those two dialects. There are a lot of different forms of Arabic, and it depends on what country/region you are in. For example, the Gulf States have a different form from North African nations. And then there are various internal differences between the North African states, and the Gulf States etc...

In that sense, CA and MSA are sort of like Latin. They gave rise to all the different forms of Arabic, just like Latin produced French, Spanish, Italian and all the other romance languages.

MSA and CA are very similar to each other grammatically. However, the vocabulary in CA is much more complicated than in MSA. MSA is like a simplified version of CA- all the phrases and idioms and words that no one uses anymore were taken out. MSA has been around for a while now, and is not the same as it was when it was first created.

CA is pretty much useless today in that not only does no one speak it, no one writes in it either. MSA is the official language of the Arab world; when two different countries want to communicate with each other, they use MSA. Most everything that the government produces is in MSA as well.

It is pretty useless learning one of the local dialects of Arabic unless you actually plan on living in a specific part of the Arab world. I do not, and just want to learn the language to read the Qur'an, so picked MSA. The reason I didn't pick CA is because MSA is more useful (since it is the official language of the Arab world, I could potentially get a job as an interpreter with my government, or work at a hospital somewhere in the middle east), and more importantly, almost all classes and programs teaching Arabic these days are teaching MSA, no one really teaches CA, since it has no practical use.

So even if I did decide I wanted to learn CA, it would be hard to find someone to teach it to me.

 

[Ishna]

I just lost 10 translations because I closed the smilie window before it finished loading.

It took me 1.5 hours.

 

[spnadmin]

Try typing your work into a .rtf (Rich Text) document first using your computer's text editor. It will retain the Gurmukhi charcters. Then you can copy and paste into the comment pane. I do this frequently when working with shabads in combination with text. If the Gurmukhi shows up as 'squares' instead of sharfs, don't worry. The document remembers the code even if it doesn't look that way. When you paste they will show up in the SPN thread. You won't lose your work.

This trick also works with Word documents if you do not have a particular font in your fontbook -- it works for me -- on this one tread carefully because not all versions of Word have the capability.

 

[Ishna]

Thanks Adminji. I've been using the forums text box because I tweak the size and colours sometimes and it's just been easier for me to type straight in here. Usually when I'm done, or as I'm going, I highlight it all and copy it in case something happens so I can paste it back. Which is what I did - I selected and copied all my text when I was finished, hit the smilie box, thought nah, I'll use the new soccer munda so closed the window as it was loading and my browser had a hissy fit and I'm like, HA! see! My copy backup plan will work! Then I hit CTRL-V and... nothing. You can imagine the expletives that followed! Oh well. I'll see it as enforced practice and will be doing it your way in future! Chardi kala eacesignkaur:

 

[Ishna]

Exercise 4B Part 1
Verbs/Absolutive/Transitive/Present Tense
Translate the following verses into English:

1. ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ = Nanak says. ਨਾਨਕੁ = Nanak. ਆਖੈ = says, from verb absolutive [abs.] ਆਖਿ 'say' with 3rd person singular ending ੈ

2. ਸੇਵੀ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਆਪਣਾ = I serve my Lord.ਸੇਵੀ = serve, from verb abs. ਸੇਵਿ 'serve' with 1st person singular ending ੀ - this is where the 'I' came from. ਸਾਹਿਬੁ = Lord, masculine singular noun. ਆਪਣਾ = my own, my (reflexive pronoun, translation depends on the subject)

3. ਜੀਵੈ ਦਾਤਾ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ = The giver lives, no one dies. ਜੀਵੈ = lives, from verb abs. ਜੀਵਿ 'live' with 3rd person singular ending ੈ. ਦਾਤਾ = giver, masculine singular noun. ਮਰੈ = dies, from verb abs. ਮਰਿ 'die' with 3rd person singular ending ੈ. ਨ = no and ਕੋਇ = anyone therefore 'no one'.

4. ਲਖ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣ = 100,000 pandits recite the Puranas. ਲਖ = numeral 100,000. ਪੰਡਿਤ = pandits, masculine plural noun. ਪੜਹਿ = recite, from verb abs. ਪੜਿ 'read, recite' with 3rd person plural ending ਹਿ [derived from context, as ਹਿ is also a 2nd person singular ending] . ਪੁਰਾਣ = Puranas, masculine plural noun.

5. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਆਪਣਾ = We serve our True Guru. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ = True Guru, masculine singular noun. ਸੇਵਨਿ = serve, from verb abs. ਸੇਵਿ 'serve' with 3rd person plural ending ਨਿ. ਆਪਣਾ = our own, our (reflexive pronoun, translation depends on the subject).

6. ਤੇਰਾ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਤਾਰੇ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ = Your one Name saves the world. ਤੇਰਾ = Your, masculine singluar possessive adjective. ਏਕੁ = one, masculine singular pronoun. ਨਾਮੁ = Name, masculine singular noun. ਤਾਰੇ = saves, from verb abs. ਤਾਰਿ 'save' with 3rd person singular ending ੇ. ਸੰਸਾਰੁ = world, masculine singular noun.

7. ਕੇਤੇ ਮੰਗਹਿ ਮੰਗਤੇ = How many beggars beg? ਕੇਤੇ = how many, plural masculine adjective from ਕੇਤਾ. ਮੰਗਹਿ = beg, from verb ads. ਮੰਗਿ 'ask for, beg' with 3rd person plural ending ਹਿ. ਮੰਗਤੇ = beggars, plural masculine noun from ਮੰਗਤਾ.

8. ਏਹੁ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਇ = No one knows this limit.ਏਹੁ = this, masculine singular pronoun. ਅੰਤੁ = end/limit, masculine sinuglar noun. ਨ = no. ਜਾਣੈ = knows, from verb abs. ਜਾਣਿ 'know' with 3rd person singular ending ੈ. ਕੋਇ = anyone.

9. ਨਾਨਕੁ ਮੰਗੈ ਦਾਨੁ = Nanak asks for the gift. ਨਾਨਕੁ = Nanak. ਮੰਗੈ = asks for, begs, from verb ads. ਮੰਗਿ 'ask for, beg' with 3rd person singular ending ੈ. ਦਾਨੁ = gift, masculine singular noun.

10. ਜਪੀ ਨਾਓੁ ਤੇਰਾ = I recite inwardly Your Name. ਜਪੀ = recite inwardly, from verb abs. ਜਪਿ 'recite inwardly' with 1st person singular ending ੀ. ਨਾਓੁ = name, masculine singular noun. ਤੇਰਾ = Your, masculine singluar possessive adjective.

 

[inder preet]

respected ishnaji
please do tell me the course which you are doing how can i do that course for that what i have to do please do guide me for this.
thanking you

 

[Ishna]

Dear Inder preet bhenji

The course is from the book An introduction to the sacred language of the Sikhs by Christopher Shackle.

Adminji kindly linked to a downloadable version of the book in her post here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/learn...sistance-with-marking-tests-5.html#post184879

You can download the book and study along. :japosatnamwaheguru:

 

[inder preet]

Ishnaji how can i.download that book. I tried your link but i didn't find that book.there so pls do help me.

 

[Ishna]

Inder preet ji

You need to create an account ("Join") at this site then you can download the book: http://www.academicroom.com/book/introduction-sacred-language-sikhs

If you're still having problems then send me a PM. eacesign:

 

[inder preet]

Thank you ishna i have got the book and now just tell me how.to work on it.
Thank you .

 

[Ishna]

Inder preet ji, you can start reading the book, and when you get to the tests you can try them and compare your answers to the ones in this thread.

Eventually I hope to turn the answers from the thread into some neat PDFs which are easier to read.

 

[inder preet]

Thank you ishna ji very much and in which exercises copy is written that simply i have to copy in my text book .

 

[Ishna]

Exercise 4B Part 2
Verbs/Absolutive/Transitive-Intransitive/Present Tense
Translate the following verses into English:

11. ਹਓੁਮੈ ਤੁਟੈ = The ego breaks. ਹਓੁਮੈ = ego, masculine singular noun. ਤੁਟੈ = breaks, from intransitive verb abs. ਤੁਟਿ ‘break’.

12. ਕਹਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਭਾਲਾ = Where can I seek happiness. ਕਹਾ = where? ਸੁਖੁ = happiness, masculine singular noun. ਭਾਲਾ = search for/seek (verb abs. ਭਾਲਿ) with 1st person singular ending ਾ. [I think this is a sentence with a subjunctive sense of ‘can’ or ‘could’.]

13. ਵਿਰਲਾ ਬੁਝੈ ਕੋਇ = Rare is someone who understands. ਵਿਰਲਾ = rare, masculine singular adjective. ਬੁਝੈ = understands, from verb abs. ਬੁਝਿ ‘understand’. ਕੋਇ = someone/anyone, indefinite pronoun.

14. ਸਾਚੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ = The truth is not forgotten. ਸਾਚੁ = truth, masculine singular noun. ਨ = not. ‘is’ not comes from the present tense ending ੈ of the verb ਵੀਸਰੈ ‘forgotten’.

15. ਨਾਨਕੁ ਨੀਚੁ ਕਹੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ = Nanak the humble tells the thought. ਨੀਚੁ = low/humble, masculine singular adjective. ਕਹੈ = tells/says. ਬੀਚਾਰੁ = thought/idea, masculine singular noun. [I may have cheated a bit on this one]

16. ਨਿੰਦਾ ਆਖਾ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ = I utter blame day and night. ਨਿੰਦਾ = calumny, blame singular feminime noun. ਆਖਾ = utter, from verb abs. ਆਖਿ with 1st person singular ending ਾ. ਦਿਨੁ = day, masculine singular noun. ਰਾਤਿ = night, feminine singular noun.

17. ਇਕਿ ਮੂਲੁ ਨ ਬੁਝਨਿ੍ ਆਪਣਾ = Some do not understand their own essence. ਇਕਿ = some, plural pronoun. ਮੂਲੁ = essence, basis, masculine singular noun [not to be confused with ਮੂਲੇ which is an adverb meaning 'not at all']. ਨ = no, not, negative adverb. ਬੁਝਨਿ੍ = understand, from verb abs. ਬੁਝਿ with 3rd person plural ending ਨ੍. ਆਪਣਾ = themselves, reflexive pronoun.

18. ਸੋ ਮਿਤਿ ਜਾਣੈ = He knows the measure. ਸੋ = that, he, masculine singular direct pronoun. ਮਿਤਿ = masure, masculine singular direct noun. ਜਾਣੈ = know, from verb abs. ਜਾਣਿ, with 3rd person singular ending ੈ.

19. ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜੀਵੈ ਕੋਇ = He knows nobody else. ਅਵਰੁ = other, else, pronoun. ਨ = no, negative adverb. ਜੀਵੈ = know, from verb abs. ਜਾਣਿ, with 3rd person singular ending ੈ. ਕੋਇ = someone/anyone, indefinite pronoun.

20. ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮੂਲੇ = A command does not move him at all. ਹੁਕਮੁ = command, masculine singular direct noun. ਨ = no, not, negative adverb. ਚਲੈ = move/operate/work, from verb abs. ਚਲਿ, with 3rd person singular ending ੈ. ਮੂਲੇ = (not) at all.

I would like to correct attempt #5 from post #49:

5. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਨਿ ਆਪਣਾ= They serve the True Guru themselves. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ= True Guru, masculine singular noun. ਸੇਵਨਿ= serve, from verb abs. ਸੇਵਿ'serve' with 3rd person plural ending ਨਿ. ਆਪਣਾ= our own, our (reflexive pronoun, translation depends on the subject, in this case the subject is the third person plural 'they' indicated by the ਨਿ in ਸੇਵਨਿ).

Many thanks _/\_