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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Interfaith Dialogues
Reality, Truth And Developing The Wisdom To Enlightenment
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<blockquote data-quote="BhagatSingh" data-source="post: 176585" data-attributes="member: 2610"><p>Did you watch the discussion I linked to between Robert Thurman and Deepak Chopra?</p><p></p><p>You said I came up with a new theory. I said it's merely new set of words for what I have always been saying in our conversations. Now you can question the ideas but know that this isn't anything new. To be new, is not my intention. I am not trying to be new, I am simply conveying the nature of reality as I see it. There are many ways of talking about this. I see you talking about it and I enjoy your posts which in fact lead me to the nature as I read. And there I dwell and reply to your post.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well everything is memory but I am specifically talking about memory as what is left after the objects of sense experience are not there. The experience is of the images left by the sense experience. This is memory. </p><p></p><p>Now I know that every sense experience is a memory in the brain. We perceive is a few milliseconds after it is sensed. But I don't call it memory at this point because I want to differentiate it from the images when no sensing is there. So the latter I would call memory and the former I would call sense experience.</p><p></p><p></p><p>By perception I mean sense experience and by conception I mean that which is arising in the mind. So they are connected and influence each other. This perhaps most visible in art.</p><p></p><p>The conception "Flat earth of personal space"</p><p></p><p>The perception:</p><p><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Varaha_avtar,_killing_a_demon_to_protect_Bhu,_c1740.jpg/250px-Varaha_avtar,_killing_a_demon_to_protect_Bhu,_c1740.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Conception "Earth as spherical object in vast space"</p><p>Perception:</p><p><img src="http://www.harekrsna.com/gallery/varaha1/varaha18.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Notice how the depiction of Varaha/Boar avatar of God changes with time as our conception changes. We no longer perceive the earth as flat which just includes our city, No the earth is now set amongst the cosmos, it's impersonal.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Conception of depth perception or space.</p><p></p><p>Cave paintings:</p><p><img src="http://erinsingleton.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/lascaux-huntersjpg.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Egyptian paintings:</p><p><img src="http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci102/images/nut_geb.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Mughal paintings of Akbar's time:</p><p><img src="http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2012/11/29/1354194657267/The-child-Akbar-and-his-m-001.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>Italian renaissance, da Vinci:</p><p><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg/400px-%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Cezanne post-modern, and post-impressionism:</p><p><img src="http://www.oilpaintingonline.com/largeimg/Cezanne,%20Paul/21429-Cezanne,%20Paul.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p> Get a feel for how each artist describes the space in the painting. You can see how each artist's conception of depth leads them to paint the kind of space they do. They actually perceive space as how they conceive it.</p><p>For da Vinci, space is mathematically laid out in front of him. It follows certain "rules of perspective" that are the same for everyone. It is stationary and impersonal, set outside vs over here in my head.</p><p> Cezanne on the other hand, conceives of space as personal. It changes according to his personal perception of it. both plates are laying flat on the table but Cezanne perceives one in different space than the other.</p><p> </p><p> According to da Vinci, the animals in the cave paintings are standing in a tower formation. but the artist who painted it obviously saw them separated in space. His conception of space was different and thus the perception that was painted was different.</p><p> </p><p> ETC</p><p> </p><p>They are not separate. but distinctions can be made between them for ease of communication.</p><p>Well there is always a little mindfulness and wisdom present in everyone at all the time, and it can be cultivated and grows within the right environment. To climb the mountain to the top you need to climb it.</p><p>There needs to be the intent. What else should be present is less important than intent. Everything fails without it. There could be understanding but without the intent to overcome, that understanding will be dropped the moment it arises. This rule fails when the understanding is overwhelming.</p><p></p><p>Path would be the path of understanding, intent would be the driving force to walk that path.</p><p></p><p>No I didn't say it but you read it. You have been reading a lot of things I am not saying.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure </p><p></p><p>So far so good.</p><p></p><p>Still good.</p><p></p><p>Well said.</p><p></p><p>Detachment <u>OR</u> attachment to everything. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p>Intention does not mean "thinking about doing this or that". That is not intention, that is just thinking about doing it. Intention is the will to do it. It is spontaneous it arises with everything you do. The things you didn't do, there your intent was weak. So if you didn't let go, your intent to let go was weak. Stronger intent would lead to letting go, which could then lead to understanding.</p><p>Sure understanding can complement intent and vice versa, so with correct understanding, you let go and thus your intent grows stronger.</p><p></p><p>It also shows the lack of detachment. </p><p>Be detached from the idea of agreement and contradiction. These are only valid within the conceptual framework. </p><p></p><p>I think you fully grasp Buddha's conceptual framework. But you must let go of contradictory notions. Reality is going to appear contradictory to someone who is embedded in a strong conceptual framework.</p><p></p><p>Now one can, through understanding, break out of that or through intent. Usually it is both. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The Buddha also has no attachment to His teachings.</p><p>By falling away I mean they fall away completely. There is now no sense experience. No memory or concepts arising.</p><p></p><p>Observe for yourself and you'll know. What exactly is changing in a river, as it flows, that is what I am talking about.</p><p>Sure I may have said that but how you read what I wrote is a whole different story.</p><p></p><p>Yes</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again sense experience is part of reality. Less real than something which is even more real.</p><p>A concept is known to be concept by virtue of understanding reality. Otherwise you never really see that it is merely a concept. </p><p>Haha!</p><p>Sure</p><p></p><p>Sure</p><p> No don't bring children into this. They don't concern themselves with this. It would simply make no sense to them. The kind of mind that gives rise to this is not shared by all humans and all of the time.</p><p></p><p>The question here to ask is this: What is that whereby thinking thinks or hearing hear?</p><p></p><p>That is labelled as "Brahman" in the Upnishads. You may call it X or whatever you want. Knowing it or having the intent to know it will take you out of sense experience. And move you from right to left on this scale. Real > Sense experience > Conceptual framework </p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span><span style="color: DarkRed">1. THE Pupil asks: 'At whose wish does the mind sent forth proceed on its errand? At whose command does the first breath go forth? At whose wish do we utter this speech? What god directs the eye, or the ear?'</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">2. The Teacher replies: 'It is the ear of the ear, the mind of the mind, the speech of speech, the breath of breath, and the eye of the eye. When freed (from the senses) the wise, on departing from this world, become immortal <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01176.htm#fn_365" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px">1</span></a>.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">3. 'The eye does not go thither, nor speech, nor mind. We do not know, we do not understand, how any one can teach it.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">4. 'It is different from the known, it is also above the unknown, thus we have heard from those of old, who taught us this <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01176.htm#fn_366" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px">2</span></a>.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">5. 'That which is not expressed by speech and</span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed"><span style="font-size: 9px">p. 148</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">by which speech is expressed, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">6. 'That which does not think by mind, and by which, they say, mind is thought <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01176.htm#fn_367" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 9px">1</span></a>, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">7. 'That which does not see by the eye, and by which one sees (the work of) the eyes, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">8. 'That which does not hear by the ear, and by which the ear is heard, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.</span></p><p> <span style="color: DarkRed">9. 'That which does not breathe by breath, and by which breath is drawn, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.'</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Talavakara Upnishad</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p></p><p>It is part of reality, which encapsulates everything, sense experience, conceptual, or lack of them.</p><p>Kabir Ji says</p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਗਉੜੀ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Gauree:</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਖਟ ਨੇਮ ਕਰਿ ਕੋਠੜੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਬੀਚ ਪਾਈ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">He fashioned the body chamber with six chakras, and placed within it the incomparable thing (soul).</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਕੁੰਜੀ ਕੁਲਫੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਕਰਤੇ ਬਾਰ ਨ ਲਾਈ ॥੧॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">He made the breath of life the watchman, with lock and key to protect it; the Creator did this in no time at all. ||1||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਅਬ ਮਨ ਜਾਗਤ ਰਹੁ ਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Keep your mind awake and aware now, O Sibling of Destiny.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਗਾਫਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰੁ ਮੁਸੈ ਘਰੁ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">You were careless, and you have wasted your life; your home is being plundered by thieves. ||1||Pause||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਪੰਚ ਪਹਰੂਆ ਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਪਤੀਆਰਾ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਚੇਤਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਚਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਲੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥੨॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">When you are conscious in your consciousness, you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਨਉ ਘਰ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੁ ਕਾਮਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">ਕਹਤੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਵੈ ਘਰ ਮੂਸੇ ਦਸਵੈਂ ਤਤੁ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੩॥੨੨॥੭੩॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||</span></p><p></p><p>Well clearly you have not experienced it nor do I expect you to give it any importance since you have no idea what it is. But if you are curious then I think you will want to find out if there is something which you can experience for yourself that could give you first-hand insights into Buddha teachings.</p><p></p><p> From Tao Te Ching</p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">1</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The tao that can be told</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">is not the eternal Tao</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The name that can be named</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">is not the eternal Name.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The unnamable is the eternally real.</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Naming is the origin</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">of all particular things.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Free from desire, you realize the mystery.</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Yet mystery and manifestations</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">arise from the same source.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">This source is called darkness.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Darkness within darkness.</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The gateway to all understanding.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">21</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The Master keeps her mind</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">always at one with the Tao;</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">that is what gives her her radiance.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The Tao is ungraspable.</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">How can her mind be at one with it?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Because she doesn't cling to ideas.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">The Tao is dark and unfathomable.</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">How can it make her radiant?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Because she lets it.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">Since before time and space were,</span> <span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">the Tao is.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">It is beyond <em>is</em> and <em>is not</em>.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">How do I know this is true?</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed">I look inside myself and see.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BhagatSingh, post: 176585, member: 2610"] Did you watch the discussion I linked to between Robert Thurman and Deepak Chopra? You said I came up with a new theory. I said it's merely new set of words for what I have always been saying in our conversations. Now you can question the ideas but know that this isn't anything new. To be new, is not my intention. I am not trying to be new, I am simply conveying the nature of reality as I see it. There are many ways of talking about this. I see you talking about it and I enjoy your posts which in fact lead me to the nature as I read. And there I dwell and reply to your post. Well everything is memory but I am specifically talking about memory as what is left after the objects of sense experience are not there. The experience is of the images left by the sense experience. This is memory. Now I know that every sense experience is a memory in the brain. We perceive is a few milliseconds after it is sensed. But I don't call it memory at this point because I want to differentiate it from the images when no sensing is there. So the latter I would call memory and the former I would call sense experience. By perception I mean sense experience and by conception I mean that which is arising in the mind. So they are connected and influence each other. This perhaps most visible in art. The conception "Flat earth of personal space" The perception: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Varaha_avtar,_killing_a_demon_to_protect_Bhu,_c1740.jpg/250px-Varaha_avtar,_killing_a_demon_to_protect_Bhu,_c1740.jpg[/IMG] Conception "Earth as spherical object in vast space" Perception: [IMG]http://www.harekrsna.com/gallery/varaha1/varaha18.jpg[/IMG] Notice how the depiction of Varaha/Boar avatar of God changes with time as our conception changes. We no longer perceive the earth as flat which just includes our city, No the earth is now set amongst the cosmos, it's impersonal. Conception of depth perception or space. Cave paintings: [IMG]http://erinsingleton.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/lascaux-huntersjpg.jpg[/IMG] Egyptian paintings: [IMG]http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci102/images/nut_geb.jpg[/IMG] Mughal paintings of Akbar's time: [IMG]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2012/11/29/1354194657267/The-child-Akbar-and-his-m-001.jpg[/IMG] Italian renaissance, da Vinci: [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg/400px-%C3%9Altima_Cena_-_Da_Vinci_5.jpg[/IMG] Cezanne post-modern, and post-impressionism: [IMG]http://www.oilpaintingonline.com/largeimg/Cezanne,%20Paul/21429-Cezanne,%20Paul.jpg[/IMG] Get a feel for how each artist describes the space in the painting. You can see how each artist's conception of depth leads them to paint the kind of space they do. They actually perceive space as how they conceive it. For da Vinci, space is mathematically laid out in front of him. It follows certain "rules of perspective" that are the same for everyone. It is stationary and impersonal, set outside vs over here in my head. Cezanne on the other hand, conceives of space as personal. It changes according to his personal perception of it. both plates are laying flat on the table but Cezanne perceives one in different space than the other. According to da Vinci, the animals in the cave paintings are standing in a tower formation. but the artist who painted it obviously saw them separated in space. His conception of space was different and thus the perception that was painted was different. ETC They are not separate. but distinctions can be made between them for ease of communication. Well there is always a little mindfulness and wisdom present in everyone at all the time, and it can be cultivated and grows within the right environment. To climb the mountain to the top you need to climb it. There needs to be the intent. What else should be present is less important than intent. Everything fails without it. There could be understanding but without the intent to overcome, that understanding will be dropped the moment it arises. This rule fails when the understanding is overwhelming. Path would be the path of understanding, intent would be the driving force to walk that path. No I didn't say it but you read it. You have been reading a lot of things I am not saying. Sure So far so good. Still good. Well said. Detachment [U]OR[/U] attachment to everything. ;) Intention does not mean "thinking about doing this or that". That is not intention, that is just thinking about doing it. Intention is the will to do it. It is spontaneous it arises with everything you do. The things you didn't do, there your intent was weak. So if you didn't let go, your intent to let go was weak. Stronger intent would lead to letting go, which could then lead to understanding. Sure understanding can complement intent and vice versa, so with correct understanding, you let go and thus your intent grows stronger. It also shows the lack of detachment. Be detached from the idea of agreement and contradiction. These are only valid within the conceptual framework. I think you fully grasp Buddha's conceptual framework. But you must let go of contradictory notions. Reality is going to appear contradictory to someone who is embedded in a strong conceptual framework. Now one can, through understanding, break out of that or through intent. Usually it is both. The Buddha also has no attachment to His teachings. By falling away I mean they fall away completely. There is now no sense experience. No memory or concepts arising. Observe for yourself and you'll know. What exactly is changing in a river, as it flows, that is what I am talking about. Sure I may have said that but how you read what I wrote is a whole different story. Yes Again sense experience is part of reality. Less real than something which is even more real. A concept is known to be concept by virtue of understanding reality. Otherwise you never really see that it is merely a concept. Haha! Sure Sure No don't bring children into this. They don't concern themselves with this. It would simply make no sense to them. The kind of mind that gives rise to this is not shared by all humans and all of the time. The question here to ask is this: What is that whereby thinking thinks or hearing hear? That is labelled as "Brahman" in the Upnishads. You may call it X or whatever you want. Knowing it or having the intent to know it will take you out of sense experience. And move you from right to left on this scale. Real > Sense experience > Conceptual framework [COLOR=DarkRed] [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkRed]1. THE Pupil asks: 'At whose wish does the mind sent forth proceed on its errand? At whose command does the first breath go forth? At whose wish do we utter this speech? What god directs the eye, or the ear?'[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]2. The Teacher replies: 'It is the ear of the ear, the mind of the mind, the speech of speech, the breath of breath, and the eye of the eye. When freed (from the senses) the wise, on departing from this world, become immortal [URL="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01176.htm#fn_365"][SIZE=1]1[/SIZE][/URL].[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]3. 'The eye does not go thither, nor speech, nor mind. We do not know, we do not understand, how any one can teach it.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]4. 'It is different from the known, it is also above the unknown, thus we have heard from those of old, who taught us this [URL="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01176.htm#fn_366"][SIZE=1]2[/SIZE][/URL].[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]5. 'That which is not expressed by speech and[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]p. 148[/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]by which speech is expressed, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]6. 'That which does not think by mind, and by which, they say, mind is thought [URL="http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe01/sbe01176.htm#fn_367"][SIZE=1]1[/SIZE][/URL], that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]7. 'That which does not see by the eye, and by which one sees (the work of) the eyes, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]8. 'That which does not hear by the ear, and by which the ear is heard, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]9. 'That which does not breathe by breath, and by which breath is drawn, that alone know as Brahman, not that which people here adore.'[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed]Talavakara Upnishad [/COLOR] It is part of reality, which encapsulates everything, sense experience, conceptual, or lack of them. Kabir Ji says [COLOR=DarkRed]ਗਉੜੀ ॥ Gauree: ਖਟ ਨੇਮ ਕਰਿ ਕੋਠੜੀ ਬਾਂਧੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਬੀਚ ਪਾਈ ॥ He fashioned the body chamber with six chakras, and placed within it the incomparable thing (soul). ਕੁੰਜੀ ਕੁਲਫੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਕਰਤੇ ਬਾਰ ਨ ਲਾਈ ॥੧॥ He made the breath of life the watchman, with lock and key to protect it; the Creator did this in no time at all. ||1|| ਅਬ ਮਨ ਜਾਗਤ ਰਹੁ ਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥ Keep your mind awake and aware now, O Sibling of Destiny. ਗਾਫਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰੁ ਮੁਸੈ ਘਰੁ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ You were careless, and you have wasted your life; your home is being plundered by thieves. ||1||Pause|| ਪੰਚ ਪਹਰੂਆ ਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਨਹੀ ਪਤੀਆਰਾ ॥ The five senses stand as guards at the gate, but now can they be trusted? ਚੇਤਿ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਚਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਰਹੁ ਤਉ ਲੈ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ਉਜਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ When you are conscious in your consciousness, you shall be enlightened and illuminated. ||2|| ਨਉ ਘਰ ਦੇਖਿ ਜੁ ਕਾਮਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਬਸਤੁ ਅਨੂਪ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ Seeing the nine openings of the body, the soul-bride is led astray; she does not obtain that incomparable thing. ਕਹਤੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਨਵੈ ਘਰ ਮੂਸੇ ਦਸਵੈਂ ਤਤੁ ਸਮਾਈ ॥੩॥੨੨॥੭੩॥ Says Kabeer, the nine openings of the body are being plundered; rise up to the Tenth Gate, and discover the true essence. ||3||22||73||[/COLOR] Well clearly you have not experienced it nor do I expect you to give it any importance since you have no idea what it is. But if you are curious then I think you will want to find out if there is something which you can experience for yourself that could give you first-hand insights into Buddha teachings. From Tao Te Ching [COLOR=DarkRed]1 The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] The gateway to all understanding. 21[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] The Master keeps her mind always at one with the Tao; that is what gives her her radiance. The Tao is ungraspable.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] How can her mind be at one with it? Because she doesn't cling to ideas. The Tao is dark and unfathomable.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] How can it make her radiant? Because she lets it. Since before time and space were,[/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkRed] the Tao is. It is beyond [I]is[/I] and [I]is not[/I]. How do I know this is true? I look inside myself and see.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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