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Guru Granth Sahib
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ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Interfaith Dialogues
ONE Universal Concept Among All Religions: God Is Within All, And All Is God
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 173558" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Bhagat ji,</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is going to be long and controversial, so brace yourself.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you will at least now admit that the “no self” which you equate with God is one that is according to *your* interpretation, not mine! </p><p>The “boundless space” referred to in Buddhist texts is one of the objects of the development of calm, and not of insight, which is what the Buddha’s teachings is about. Boundless space is an idea, the object of contemplation for those who know only how to suppress the defilements, and not to its eradication. Only penetrative insight into one of the three general characteristics of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and no self is the doorway by which enlightenment occurs. Boundless space being a concept, does not exhibit any of these characteristics. </p><p></p><p>Emptiness or sunnata / no self in the texts as I said before, refers to the particular characteristic of all conditioned phenomena. That you see this as being same as 'all encompassing space' and then go on to suggest that conditioned phenomena exist within this, is from where I stand, the result of wrong understanding.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Does this mean then that thinking itself is 'self' as are seeing, hearing, feeling, perception, earth, wind and fire elements? Self exists within no self, sounds to me like metaphysics gone crazy!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you are positing that there is such a thing as “self” and then insisting that the concept of no self should be such that it accommodates this. And then you go on to say that if I fail to do this, then I have made no self into a self? But would I then not have established the existence of self? But of course this is strange logic isn't it?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you are saying that no self could well be done without and replaced by the concept SELF with capital letters? The Buddha was actually teaching the same thing as Vedanta?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I must be misunderstanding something. So far the impression is that you are telling me that no self does not deny the existence of self. But in the above I said that “self” is a misperception / misunderstanding” and you agree with this. Can you please clarify because it seems like you are contradicting yourself?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean I could well replace “consciousness experiencing an object” with “God experiencing God”? And I could say for example, that hearing consciousness is soul? </p><p></p><p>Nah, my impression when seeing soul and God being referred to and taught about, is that of encouraging *not* to attend to one's moment to moment experiences but rather to “believe” in something that is never a part of anyone's experience. One is asked to be involved in the kind of perceptions where concepts are taken for reality and made to form some kind of connection, all by sheer force of imagination. Indeed if it was not for the fact that there is no intention to mislead and that each person is responsible for what he believes in, I'd consider God the biggest lie ever perpetuated in human history.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes no self could be misleading but only if one has proliferated on the concept as you have done. Someone who understands correctly will not put forward the idea without reference to ordinary day to day, moment to moment experiences. One is not asked for example, to contemplate or imagine no self, but to develop understanding of such mundane experiences as seeing, hearing, touching, thinking and so on. Indeed one is also reminded that what is to be understood are characteristics of realities where no labels apply. God on the other hand, is a huge label forced upon, one which actually goes against the nature of these experiences, being that it is associated with the perception of permanence, happiness and self, when reality in fact exhibit impermanence, suffering and no self. </p><p></p><p>The concept of God misleading only amateurs / beginners? Being misled can only lead to further being misled. Why use such ideas at all if there is any understanding and one knows that beginners will be misled!!? And how can it be expected that wrong lead one day to right? Well, the fact is that what you judge otherwise is in fact wrong made to appear right by power of delusion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So the path to Truth is not about development of understanding of the way things are, but repeated thinking along one of the many possible lines of inquiry? No need to bother about whether such thinking is conditioned by wisdom and detachment or by ignorance and attachment? Just follow a particular so called paradigm of thought? </p><p></p><p>And the Noble Truth of the Path which the Buddha was enlightened to is actually coming to see this as being one of the many possible ways to experience the Noble Truth of Cessation? I'm going to have to tell my teacher and all my friends about this…..</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, reality is nothing more than that which rises and falls away “now” experienced through one of the five senses and the mind. Either one understands this or does not understand it, but reality appears all the time! Starting from the very beginning with intellectual understanding which acknowledges the fact, there is no impression about one part of reality being revealed and causing another to conceal. Rather there is understanding or not of what has arisen and fallen away. </p><p></p><p>The idea that there is something that can be observed in part comes from the assumption that there exists something out there waiting to be known / observed. But conditioned phenomena rises and falls away instantly there and then, and what went before and what follows are altogether different realities.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. No me and no garden, but just thinking, thinking about garden. So yes, I was right about the perception of elephant as coming from a view which takes the elephant as existing and needed to be 'viewed from many angles'. This is perception of self and permanence, something which the Buddha's teachings work directly against.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whether it is one or all perspectives, if seeing, visible object, perception, thinking etc. are not known, the knowledge that comes must be completely worthless. Indeed it does not even matter if one mistakes a rope for a snake, or is hard of hearing, color blind, have no sense of smell or starting to experience dementia, the point is always to understand the present moment reality for what it is. Perception is perception and to be known for what it is, no matter this is of a snake or rope mistaken for a snake.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Change of perception (instead of perspective) comes with understanding reality and not from thinking differently about some concept. To believe otherwise can only be due to wrong understanding and will lead to more ignorance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Regardless of what one believes, seeing that only this present moment is real and to be understood is the only step in the right direction.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One of the first important steps along the Path of the development of right understanding is to make the reality vs. concept distinction, but you are suggesting that an Arahat would involve himself with thinking about many different concepts as basis for true knowledge?!! :-/</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As a student of reality, I see no reason to try and understand theism, having understood to some extent what conditions such a belief. Understanding another human would include knowing where he is right and where he is wrong. It does not mean that someone who does not believe in God should suddenly see the belief as equally valid.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, there is no wrong, but only right and more right.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know only of two kinds of death, one the conventional death as I pointed out. The other is the momentary death which happens all the time with the falling away of each consciousness. Which kind of death and the knowing of it are you referring to?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 173558, member: 586"] Bhagat ji, This is going to be long and controversial, so brace yourself. Well, you will at least now admit that the “no self” which you equate with God is one that is according to *your* interpretation, not mine! The “boundless space” referred to in Buddhist texts is one of the objects of the development of calm, and not of insight, which is what the Buddha’s teachings is about. Boundless space is an idea, the object of contemplation for those who know only how to suppress the defilements, and not to its eradication. Only penetrative insight into one of the three general characteristics of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and no self is the doorway by which enlightenment occurs. Boundless space being a concept, does not exhibit any of these characteristics. Emptiness or sunnata / no self in the texts as I said before, refers to the particular characteristic of all conditioned phenomena. That you see this as being same as 'all encompassing space' and then go on to suggest that conditioned phenomena exist within this, is from where I stand, the result of wrong understanding. Does this mean then that thinking itself is 'self' as are seeing, hearing, feeling, perception, earth, wind and fire elements? Self exists within no self, sounds to me like metaphysics gone crazy! So you are positing that there is such a thing as “self” and then insisting that the concept of no self should be such that it accommodates this. And then you go on to say that if I fail to do this, then I have made no self into a self? But would I then not have established the existence of self? But of course this is strange logic isn't it? So you are saying that no self could well be done without and replaced by the concept SELF with capital letters? The Buddha was actually teaching the same thing as Vedanta? I must be misunderstanding something. So far the impression is that you are telling me that no self does not deny the existence of self. But in the above I said that “self” is a misperception / misunderstanding” and you agree with this. Can you please clarify because it seems like you are contradicting yourself? You mean I could well replace “consciousness experiencing an object” with “God experiencing God”? And I could say for example, that hearing consciousness is soul? Nah, my impression when seeing soul and God being referred to and taught about, is that of encouraging *not* to attend to one's moment to moment experiences but rather to “believe” in something that is never a part of anyone's experience. One is asked to be involved in the kind of perceptions where concepts are taken for reality and made to form some kind of connection, all by sheer force of imagination. Indeed if it was not for the fact that there is no intention to mislead and that each person is responsible for what he believes in, I'd consider God the biggest lie ever perpetuated in human history. Yes no self could be misleading but only if one has proliferated on the concept as you have done. Someone who understands correctly will not put forward the idea without reference to ordinary day to day, moment to moment experiences. One is not asked for example, to contemplate or imagine no self, but to develop understanding of such mundane experiences as seeing, hearing, touching, thinking and so on. Indeed one is also reminded that what is to be understood are characteristics of realities where no labels apply. God on the other hand, is a huge label forced upon, one which actually goes against the nature of these experiences, being that it is associated with the perception of permanence, happiness and self, when reality in fact exhibit impermanence, suffering and no self. The concept of God misleading only amateurs / beginners? Being misled can only lead to further being misled. Why use such ideas at all if there is any understanding and one knows that beginners will be misled!!? And how can it be expected that wrong lead one day to right? Well, the fact is that what you judge otherwise is in fact wrong made to appear right by power of delusion. So the path to Truth is not about development of understanding of the way things are, but repeated thinking along one of the many possible lines of inquiry? No need to bother about whether such thinking is conditioned by wisdom and detachment or by ignorance and attachment? Just follow a particular so called paradigm of thought? And the Noble Truth of the Path which the Buddha was enlightened to is actually coming to see this as being one of the many possible ways to experience the Noble Truth of Cessation? I'm going to have to tell my teacher and all my friends about this….. Well, reality is nothing more than that which rises and falls away “now” experienced through one of the five senses and the mind. Either one understands this or does not understand it, but reality appears all the time! Starting from the very beginning with intellectual understanding which acknowledges the fact, there is no impression about one part of reality being revealed and causing another to conceal. Rather there is understanding or not of what has arisen and fallen away. The idea that there is something that can be observed in part comes from the assumption that there exists something out there waiting to be known / observed. But conditioned phenomena rises and falls away instantly there and then, and what went before and what follows are altogether different realities. No. No me and no garden, but just thinking, thinking about garden. So yes, I was right about the perception of elephant as coming from a view which takes the elephant as existing and needed to be 'viewed from many angles'. This is perception of self and permanence, something which the Buddha's teachings work directly against. Whether it is one or all perspectives, if seeing, visible object, perception, thinking etc. are not known, the knowledge that comes must be completely worthless. Indeed it does not even matter if one mistakes a rope for a snake, or is hard of hearing, color blind, have no sense of smell or starting to experience dementia, the point is always to understand the present moment reality for what it is. Perception is perception and to be known for what it is, no matter this is of a snake or rope mistaken for a snake. Change of perception (instead of perspective) comes with understanding reality and not from thinking differently about some concept. To believe otherwise can only be due to wrong understanding and will lead to more ignorance. Regardless of what one believes, seeing that only this present moment is real and to be understood is the only step in the right direction. One of the first important steps along the Path of the development of right understanding is to make the reality vs. concept distinction, but you are suggesting that an Arahat would involve himself with thinking about many different concepts as basis for true knowledge?!! :-/ As a student of reality, I see no reason to try and understand theism, having understood to some extent what conditions such a belief. Understanding another human would include knowing where he is right and where he is wrong. It does not mean that someone who does not believe in God should suddenly see the belief as equally valid. Yeah, there is no wrong, but only right and more right. I know only of two kinds of death, one the conventional death as I pointed out. The other is the momentary death which happens all the time with the falling away of each consciousness. Which kind of death and the knowing of it are you referring to? [/QUOTE]
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ONE Universal Concept Among All Religions: God Is Within All, And All Is God
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