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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Of Serpents, Pigs, Prostitutes, Goblins & The Bani Of Bhagat Tarlochan Ji
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<blockquote data-quote="Ravinder Singh" data-source="post: 183968" data-attributes="member: 2181"><p><span style="color: Red">Moderators please do not Merge this thread with posts on "Do you believe in Waheguru"</span></p><p></p><p><strong>Serpents of the Mind</strong></p><p></p><p>ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥</p><p>Anṯ kāl jo lacẖẖmī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.</p><p></p><p>ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੧॥</p><p>Sarap jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||1||</p><p></p><p>ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥</p><p>Arī bā▫ī gobiḏ nām maṯ bīsrai. Rahā▫o.</p><p></p><p>ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥</p><p>Anṯ kāl jo isṯarī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.</p><p></p><p>ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥</p><p>Besvā jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||2||</p><p></p><p>ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥</p><p>Anṯ kāl jo laṛike simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.</p><p></p><p>ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥</p><p>Sūkar jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||3||</p><p></p><p>ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥</p><p>Anṯ kāl jo manḏar simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.</p><p></p><p>ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੪॥</p><p>Pareṯ jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||4||</p><p></p><p>ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥</p><p>Anṯ kāl nārā▫iṇ simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.</p><p></p><p>ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥</p><p>Baḏaṯ ṯilocẖan ṯe nar mukṯā pīṯambar vā ke riḏai basai. ||5||2|| [/SIZE][/COLOR]</p><p></p><p>At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts</p><p>Shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1||</p><p>O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||</p><p>At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,</p><p>Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2||</p><p>At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts,</p><p>shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3||</p><p>At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts,</p><p>Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4||</p><p>At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts,</p><p>Says Tirlochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||</p><p></p><p>Ang 526 <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=0&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=526" target="_blank">http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=0&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=526</a></p><p></p><p>This passage from gurbani evokes different - and occasionally - strong reactions.</p><p></p><p>On the face of it, Bhagat Tirlochan appears to be pointing to the notion of karam, reincarnation and transmigration - concepts that are central to Hindu thought. The terms are found in gurbani as well - leading, oftentimes, to the interpretation of gurbani along similar lines as well.</p><p></p><p>The arguments have been couched in terms of the soul, which, being God-like, is immutable and untouched by human action; yet, is assigned to different bodies, depending on past actions.</p><p></p><p>How do we reconcile this?</p><p></p><p>What we have not considered enough, perhaps, is the mind (munn). I am not even sure that the term 'mind' from Western terminology is equal to the munn of gurbani (more on that for another day) but we use the terms interchangeably out of convenience.</p><p></p><p>What about the munn? Is Bhagat Tirlochan talking about the habits or conditioning (sanskar) that defines us and shapes the mind?</p><p></p><p>In the scheme of things, we are part of a large recycling process where energy and matter remain interchangeable and fixed.</p><p></p><p>Could it be that what reincarnates (or moves on) are our accumulated habits and unfulfilled desires - looking to play out in another form?</p><p></p><p></p><p>[Translation of the shabad cited above is by Sant Singh Khalsa.]</p><p></p><p>This topic is also being discussed on a related thread, "Do You Believe in Waheguru" at this link <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/40690-do-you-believe-in-waheguru.html" target="_blank">Atheism - Do You Believe In Waheguru</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ravinder Singh, post: 183968, member: 2181"] [COLOR=Red]Moderators please do not Merge this thread with posts on "Do you believe in Waheguru"[/COLOR] [B]Serpents of the Mind[/B] ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ Anṯ kāl jo lacẖẖmī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai. ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੧॥ Sarap jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||1|| ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Arī bā▫ī gobiḏ nām maṯ bīsrai. Rahā▫o. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ Anṯ kāl jo isṯarī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai. ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥ Besvā jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||2|| ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ Anṯ kāl jo laṛike simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai. ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥ Sūkar jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||3|| ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ Anṯ kāl jo manḏar simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai. ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੪॥ Pareṯ jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||4|| ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ Anṯ kāl nārā▫iṇ simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai. ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥ Baḏaṯ ṯilocẖan ṯe nar mukṯā pīṯambar vā ke riḏai basai. ||5||2|| [/SIZE][/COLOR] At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts Shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1|| O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause|| At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2|| At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3|| At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4|| At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts, Says Tirlochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2|| Ang 526 [URL]http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=0&p=0&k=0&fb=0&Param=526[/URL] This passage from gurbani evokes different - and occasionally - strong reactions. On the face of it, Bhagat Tirlochan appears to be pointing to the notion of karam, reincarnation and transmigration - concepts that are central to Hindu thought. The terms are found in gurbani as well - leading, oftentimes, to the interpretation of gurbani along similar lines as well. The arguments have been couched in terms of the soul, which, being God-like, is immutable and untouched by human action; yet, is assigned to different bodies, depending on past actions. How do we reconcile this? What we have not considered enough, perhaps, is the mind (munn). I am not even sure that the term 'mind' from Western terminology is equal to the munn of gurbani (more on that for another day) but we use the terms interchangeably out of convenience. What about the munn? Is Bhagat Tirlochan talking about the habits or conditioning (sanskar) that defines us and shapes the mind? In the scheme of things, we are part of a large recycling process where energy and matter remain interchangeable and fixed. Could it be that what reincarnates (or moves on) are our accumulated habits and unfulfilled desires - looking to play out in another form? [Translation of the shabad cited above is by Sant Singh Khalsa.] This topic is also being discussed on a related thread, "Do You Believe in Waheguru" at this link [URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/40690-do-you-believe-in-waheguru.html"]Atheism - Do You Believe In Waheguru[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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Of Serpents, Pigs, Prostitutes, Goblins & The Bani Of Bhagat Tarlochan Ji
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