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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Nanak Is The Guru, Nanak Is The Lord Himself
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<blockquote data-quote="Sikh80" data-source="post: 74448" data-attributes="member: 5290"><p><strong>Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.</strong></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>1</strong>.<strong>I</strong>f Nanaks are God HIMSELF/THEMSELVESas stated </span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn1" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[1]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> ;</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>And</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>2</strong>.<strong>I</strong>f Lord Krishna is God HIMSELF as stated in Geeta; </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><em>T</em></strong><em>hen</em></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>3</strong>.<strong>O</strong>n a wider canvas Sikhism is only aberration of Hinduism</span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn2" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080"> [2]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>And it Leads to</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>T</strong>hat Sikhism as good as Hinduism</span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn3" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080"> [3]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><em>T</em></strong><em>hen</em></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>4</strong>.<strong>S</strong>ikhs are Keshdhari Hindus</span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn4" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080"> [4]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>I</strong> do not hold this view that Sikh Gurus are God</span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn5" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080"> [5]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><em>Further </em></strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>5.If we say that NANAKs are GOD</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>Then</strong></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>G</strong>uru Gobind ji’s Shabad given below:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong><em>M</em></strong><em>ein hoon param Purukh ko dasa………</em> <em>Sab narak kund…..</em></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>W</strong>ould become superfluous.</span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn6" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080"> [6]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">[<strong>a</strong>nd it cannot be, No part of ’s shabad uttered by Guru ji can be/ is redundant or superfluous. Hence the statement made at Sl.1 is not correct.]</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>T</strong>his is the way I think.Please let me know as to what do you think<strong> R</strong>andip ji.I would stand corrected if I have omitted something.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>R</strong>egards</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref1" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[1]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> <strong>A</strong>s stated by many here in the posts ‘Guru and God no difference’ and ‘Guru nanak is the Guru and the Lord’. I have taken the assumption that Nanaks are God based on the conclusions of other two threads where the moderator of the site has also confirmed, being a moderator her words weigh heavier than others.]</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref2" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[2]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> <strong>W</strong>here the author of the script calls himself God. However it is also not correct as Gurus have criticized the Vedas and the rituals of Hindus as meaning less and Vedas as only part of ‘Maya’.]</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref3" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[3]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> <strong>T</strong>his also cannot be the case as Guru Sahibaan always rejected Hinduism.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref4" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[4]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> <strong>W</strong>hy make a big deal against Khushwant Singh and also about the views of Indian Government also contained and confirmed in Indian constitution. Hence this cannot be the case.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref5" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[5]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> <strong>T</strong>hey might have had some very specific and very limited functions i.e. to spread the message thru. Bani that is enshrined and contained in Granth sahib. And in that context they might have stated them to be representative/messengers or even Avtars of God as contained in Swaiye as is sung by Bhatts, the poets.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref6" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800080">[6]</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> <strong>T</strong>here is no entry of Guru Gobind singh ji ,Dasam Patshahi, in Granth sahib.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>I</strong>t just confirms that Gurus never wanted to be called as Gods for any reason, whatsoever, including namrata/nimrata/humility. We cannot establish after 500+ years as to whether it was in humility or otherwise. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>T</strong>he shabad of Guru Gobind Sahib ji would be rendered as redundant. As it cannot be, it proves to any mind with a little analytical power to admit that GURUs never wanted them to be called as God. May be they were or they were not is besides the point of discussion. Let it be left to the Sikh philosophy. I may think that they were God ,but it is very private and not an opinion that I should advertise on a forum. Let us not discuss this topic unless the Moderators are interested due to some other justifiable reasons and I may kindly be excused for anything that might have offended some of you.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">__________________</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">~~~**Satnaam sri WaheGuru**~~~</span></span></strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sikh80, post: 74448, member: 5290"] [b]Re: Nanak is the Guru, Nanak is the Lord Himself.[/b] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]1[/B].[B]I[/B]f Nanaks are God HIMSELF/THEMSELVESas stated [/FONT][/SIZE][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn1"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][1][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] ; [B]And[/B] [B]2[/B].[B]I[/B]f Lord Krishna is God HIMSELF as stated in Geeta; [B][I]T[/I][/B][I]hen[/I] [B]3[/B].[B]O[/B]n a wider canvas Sikhism is only aberration of Hinduism[/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn2"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080] [2][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]. [B]And it Leads to[/B] [B]T[/B]hat Sikhism as good as Hinduism[/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn3"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080] [3][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [B][I]T[/I][/B][I]hen[/I] [B]4[/B].[B]S[/B]ikhs are Keshdhari Hindus[/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn4"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080] [4][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]. [B]I[/B] do not hold this view that Sikh Gurus are God[/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn5"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080] [5][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]. [B][I]Further [/I][/B] [B]5.If we say that NANAKs are GOD[/B] [B]Then[/B] [B]G[/B]uru Gobind ji’s Shabad given below: [B][I]M[/I][/B][I]ein hoon param Purukh ko dasa………[/I] [I]Sab narak kund…..[/I] [B]W[/B]ould become superfluous.[/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftn6"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080] [6][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [[B]a[/B]nd it cannot be, No part of ’s shabad uttered by Guru ji can be/ is redundant or superfluous. Hence the statement made at Sl.1 is not correct.] [B]T[/B]his is the way I think.Please let me know as to what do you think[B] R[/B]andip ji.I would stand corrected if I have omitted something. [B]R[/B]egards [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref1"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][1][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [B]A[/B]s stated by many here in the posts ‘Guru and God no difference’ and ‘Guru nanak is the Guru and the Lord’. I have taken the assumption that Nanaks are God based on the conclusions of other two threads where the moderator of the site has also confirmed, being a moderator her words weigh heavier than others.] [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref2"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][2][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [B]W[/B]here the author of the script calls himself God. However it is also not correct as Gurus have criticized the Vedas and the rituals of Hindus as meaning less and Vedas as only part of ‘Maya’.] [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref3"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][3][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [B]T[/B]his also cannot be the case as Guru Sahibaan always rejected Hinduism. [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref4"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][4][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [B]W[/B]hy make a big deal against Khushwant Singh and also about the views of Indian Government also contained and confirmed in Indian constitution. Hence this cannot be the case. [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref5"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][5][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [B]T[/B]hey might have had some very specific and very limited functions i.e. to spread the message thru. Bani that is enshrined and contained in Granth sahib. And in that context they might have stated them to be representative/messengers or even Avtars of God as contained in Swaiye as is sung by Bhatts, the poets. [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/#_ftnref6"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080][6][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [B]T[/B]here is no entry of Guru Gobind singh ji ,Dasam Patshahi, in Granth sahib. [B]I[/B]t just confirms that Gurus never wanted to be called as Gods for any reason, whatsoever, including namrata/nimrata/humility. We cannot establish after 500+ years as to whether it was in humility or otherwise. [B]T[/B]he shabad of Guru Gobind Sahib ji would be rendered as redundant. As it cannot be, it proves to any mind with a little analytical power to admit that GURUs never wanted them to be called as God. May be they were or they were not is besides the point of discussion. Let it be left to the Sikh philosophy. I may think that they were God ,but it is very private and not an opinion that I should advertise on a forum. Let us not discuss this topic unless the Moderators are interested due to some other justifiable reasons and I may kindly be excused for anything that might have offended some of you.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]__________________ [/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]~~~**Satnaam sri WaheGuru**~~~[/SIZE][/FONT][/B] [/QUOTE]
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Nanak Is The Guru, Nanak Is The Lord Himself
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