☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikh Youth
'Naam' - My Understanding
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 140485" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>Last whine from me!</p><p></p><p>Several translations of the pauree have now been posted so that (hint) the meanings of words in context can be shared and dsicussed. </p><p></p><p></p><p> What is the meaning of any word or tuk in the context of the entire pauree? Let's focus on your decision to stick with the issue of sin/mistake. Whether a word means is a "sin" or a "mistake" in translation makes a big difference when one goes from one language to another. So it is not a matter of equivalents where one can mix and match. In English a sin is very different from a mistake and carries a different verbal load altogether. And this can be said for any language. In Italian a "sin" is sbaglio - it carries the sense of a mark or stain against the spiritual purity of the individual, and focuses on an inner state. In English, a "sin" is a transgression, a wrong deed, and focuses on actions, actions which must be punished. Much graver in English? Or graver in Italian? This pauree is in Punjabi, but the meaning in Punjabi has to be found in the right choice of words in the English language because we have been talking mostly about English TRANSLATIONS. </p><p></p><p>welcomekaur</p><p></p><p>So it does no good to fixate on what the specific Punjabi word/words/phrases mean if we cannot get from the Punjabi to the English equivalent that conveys the message of Guru's Shabad. My frustration all along has been that a verbo a verbo translation, as Cicero said, or literal translation of Punjabi into English gives a wrong result. <span style="color: DarkRed">In fact the shift in attention to individual words served only as a digression from the main point of the topic.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkRed"></span></p><p>welcomekaur</p><p></p><p>The only reason I even became involved on this thread was when it was so obvious that Naam was mistaken for Logos - a few pages back -- which it is not. And Naam was explained as coming from and then manifesting from Hukam/Ordinance --- which it does not. And Naam was viewed as something distinct from Hukam, which it is not. So what gives? Professor Sahib ji has helped us understand that the "literal" will not help. Therefore we have to get to a fulsome understanding of word and tuk in English, and that will not happen pecking at one word at a time. welcomekaur</p><p></p><p>It would be good to go back to the entire pauree 19 so that the significance of the individual words in Punjabi are understood in context by way of an explanation in English in context. </p><p></p><p>welcomekaur</p><p></p><p>That is what makes translation hard to do. We should not get hung up on one on one matching of words. The translation of Sant Singh Khalsa MD, imho, of both tuk and shabad, truly misses the boat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 140485, member: 35"] Last whine from me! Several translations of the pauree have now been posted so that (hint) the meanings of words in context can be shared and dsicussed. What is the meaning of any word or tuk in the context of the entire pauree? Let's focus on your decision to stick with the issue of sin/mistake. Whether a word means is a "sin" or a "mistake" in translation makes a big difference when one goes from one language to another. So it is not a matter of equivalents where one can mix and match. In English a sin is very different from a mistake and carries a different verbal load altogether. And this can be said for any language. In Italian a "sin" is sbaglio - it carries the sense of a mark or stain against the spiritual purity of the individual, and focuses on an inner state. In English, a "sin" is a transgression, a wrong deed, and focuses on actions, actions which must be punished. Much graver in English? Or graver in Italian? This pauree is in Punjabi, but the meaning in Punjabi has to be found in the right choice of words in the English language because we have been talking mostly about English TRANSLATIONS. welcomekaur So it does no good to fixate on what the specific Punjabi word/words/phrases mean if we cannot get from the Punjabi to the English equivalent that conveys the message of Guru's Shabad. My frustration all along has been that a verbo a verbo translation, as Cicero said, or literal translation of Punjabi into English gives a wrong result. [COLOR="DarkRed"]In fact the shift in attention to individual words served only as a digression from the main point of the topic. [/COLOR] welcomekaur The only reason I even became involved on this thread was when it was so obvious that Naam was mistaken for Logos - a few pages back -- which it is not. And Naam was explained as coming from and then manifesting from Hukam/Ordinance --- which it does not. And Naam was viewed as something distinct from Hukam, which it is not. So what gives? Professor Sahib ji has helped us understand that the "literal" will not help. Therefore we have to get to a fulsome understanding of word and tuk in English, and that will not happen pecking at one word at a time. welcomekaur It would be good to go back to the entire pauree 19 so that the significance of the individual words in Punjabi are understood in context by way of an explanation in English in context. welcomekaur That is what makes translation hard to do. We should not get hung up on one on one matching of words. The translation of Sant Singh Khalsa MD, imho, of both tuk and shabad, truly misses the boat. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Sikh Youth
'Naam' - My Understanding
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top