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Gurbani (1294-96)
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Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
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Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
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Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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'Naam' - My Understanding
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<blockquote data-quote="Ambarsaria" data-source="post: 140463" data-attributes="member: 14194"><p>Bhagat Singh ji just some observations as I am starting to read through Professor Sahib Singh ji's Guru Granth Darpan.</p><p></p><p>One thing that he mentions in his early comments before Gurbani discourses is that,</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">(1) Never read or study gurbani to look for something </p> <p style="text-align: center"><u>but</u></p> <p style="text-align: center">(2) Read and study gurbani and find something</p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: left">Reading some of the posts and translations that you amply provide it appears that you are approaching it with option (1). This is a mega mistake from my understanding and I have such thoughts too but I quickly got over it.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">If one follows option (2) you don't even look for words, shortcuts for salvation or seeking God's grace which again Professor Sahib Singh ji states that Gurbani tells us that God is indescribable and your experiences with your inner God and God around cannot be verbalized as these will not be capable of providing such description.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Professor Sahib Singh ji also describes a concept which he has seen in his work called,</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">isi&q-swlwh</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: center"><u>Praise/admiration</u>-<u>consult/seek guidance</u></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: left">Examples from Granth Darpan preamble with page number:</p> <p style="text-align: left"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> </p></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">24</span></p> <p style="text-align: center"> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">‘bolI’ BI pRBU vloN iek dwq imlI hY, pr ieh imlI hY is&iq-swlwh krn leI[ ieh nhIN ho skdw ik ies dI rwhIN mnu`K pRBU dw AMq pw sky[ vyKo! byAMq hY aus dI kudrq, qy ies ivc ijDr q`ko auh Awp hI mOjUd hY[ kOx AMdwzw lw skdw hY ik auh kyfw v`fw hY qy aus dI rcnw ikqnI ku hY?</span></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center">Language is also a gift from God but it is for praising/admiration and consulting. It is not a way to find God's limits or see Him. God's creation is limitless as well as His presence in it. Who can fathom how big or vast is such creation.</p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">26</span></p> <p style="text-align: center"> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">jog-AiBAws dI rwhIN pRwpq hoeIAW ir~DIAW is~DIAW ƒ au~cw jIvn smJ lYxw Bu`l hY,ieh qW sgoN kurwhy lY jWdIAW hn (iehnW dI shwieqw nwl jogI lok Awm jnqw au~qy dbwau pw ky auhnW ƒ ienswnIAq qoN fygdy hn)[</span></p> <p style="text-align: center"> </p> <p style="text-align: center">To make the methods and means determined through Yogic study and understanding as higher living is a lie and as matter of fact these put you on a wrong course. (With the aid of these, Yogic leaders pressure common folk and degrade their humanity)</p> <p style="text-align: center"></p><p style="text-align: left">There are incredible suggestions and helpful guidance provided by Professor Sahib Singh ji. The experience for me is incredible for sure.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">As far as the specific emphasis on the word "Naam" culturally through Babeys, Sants, etc., I find it very insulting to Gurbani since Naam is contextual and not specific. </p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">The fallacy of some of the quoted stuff is little ridiculous. For example the following,<p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: Red">I would read both as "Even to call them countless is an understatement (a "bojh", weight on the head)"</span></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center">Professor Sahib Singh ji say literal to be weight then describe clearly that it is a "mistake". You can live with "bojh/weight" but you should not get in the habit of making mistakes. </p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> </p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: left">Just in case it adds to clarification and dialog.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, just to share agreements and dis-agreements and what I am learning through Professor Sahib Singh ji's work completed over decades of study and 6288 pages for Granth Darpan in PDF copy.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left">Sat Sri Akal.</p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> </p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> </p> </p> </p> </p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ambarsaria, post: 140463, member: 14194"] Bhagat Singh ji just some observations as I am starting to read through Professor Sahib Singh ji's Guru Granth Darpan. One thing that he mentions in his early comments before Gurbani discourses is that, [CENTER](1) Never read or study gurbani to look for something [U]but[/U] (2) Read and study gurbani and find something [LEFT]Reading some of the posts and translations that you amply provide it appears that you are approaching it with option (1). This is a mega mistake from my understanding and I have such thoughts too but I quickly got over it. If one follows option (2) you don't even look for words, shortcuts for salvation or seeking God's grace which again Professor Sahib Singh ji states that Gurbani tells us that God is indescribable and your experiences with your inner God and God around cannot be verbalized as these will not be capable of providing such description. Professor Sahib Singh ji also describes a concept which he has seen in his work called, <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->[CENTER][COLOR=navy][FONT=WebAkharSlim]isi&q-swlwh [/FONT][/COLOR][LEFT] [/LEFT] [CENTER][U]Praise/admiration[/U]-[U]consult/seek guidance[/U] [LEFT]Examples from Granth Darpan preamble with page number: <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> [/LEFT] [FONT=WebAkharSlim]24[/FONT] [FONT=WebAkharSlim]‘bolI’ BI pRBU vloN iek dwq imlI hY, pr ieh imlI hY is&iq-swlwh krn leI[ ieh nhIN ho skdw ik ies dI rwhIN mnu`K pRBU dw AMq pw sky[ vyKo! byAMq hY aus dI kudrq, qy ies ivc ijDr q`ko auh Awp hI mOjUd hY[ kOx AMdwzw lw skdw hY ik auh kyfw v`fw hY qy aus dI rcnw ikqnI ku hY?[/FONT] Language is also a gift from God but it is for praising/admiration and consulting. It is not a way to find God's limits or see Him. God's creation is limitless as well as His presence in it. Who can fathom how big or vast is such creation. <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> [FONT=WebAkharSlim]26[/FONT] [FONT=WebAkharSlim]jog-AiBAws dI rwhIN pRwpq hoeIAW ir~DIAW is~DIAW ƒ au~cw jIvn smJ lYxw Bu`l hY,ieh qW sgoN kurwhy lY jWdIAW hn (iehnW dI shwieqw nwl jogI lok Awm jnqw au~qy dbwau pw ky auhnW ƒ ienswnIAq qoN fygdy hn)[[/FONT] To make the methods and means determined through Yogic study and understanding as higher living is a lie and as matter of fact these put you on a wrong course. (With the aid of these, Yogic leaders pressure common folk and degrade their humanity) [LEFT]There are incredible suggestions and helpful guidance provided by Professor Sahib Singh ji. The experience for me is incredible for sure. As far as the specific emphasis on the word "Naam" culturally through Babeys, Sants, etc., I find it very insulting to Gurbani since Naam is contextual and not specific. The fallacy of some of the quoted stuff is little ridiculous. For example the following,[INDENT][CENTER][COLOR=Red]I would read both as "Even to call them countless is an understatement (a "bojh", weight on the head)"[/COLOR] Professor Sahib Singh ji say literal to be weight then describe clearly that it is a "mistake". You can live with "bojh/weight" but you should not get in the habit of making mistakes. [/CENTER] [/INDENT][CENTER][LEFT]Just in case it adds to clarification and dialog. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, just to share agreements and dis-agreements and what I am learning through Professor Sahib Singh ji's work completed over decades of study and 6288 pages for Granth Darpan in PDF copy. Sat Sri Akal. [/LEFT] [/CENTER] [/LEFT] [/CENTER] [/CENTER] [/LEFT] [/CENTER] [/QUOTE]
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'Naam' - My Understanding
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