☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Interviews
"Militant" Sikhs Ruin Wedding After Barricading Temple
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member15" data-source="post: 167234" data-attributes="member: 17438"><p><strong>Re: Militant Sikhs ruin wedding after barricading temple</strong></p><p></p><p>I understand where you are all coming from peacesignkaur</p><p>I don't think that any of us are actually speaking out against interfaith marriage, in terms of a civil ceremony between two people of different faiths, which is I think fully legitimate and should certainly never be discouraged. </p><p> </p><p>However what we are talking about is non-Sikhs partaing of a matrimonial ceremony only for Sikhs - Anand Karaj. </p><p> </p><p>To me, an outsider looking in, this is not at all wrong. </p><p> </p><p>Catholics and people from other faiths, for example, are permitted to be married. The Catholic Church actually allows this to take place in a Catholic Church, which would be the only difference, however non-Christians cannot have a sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church because they are not baptised and the marriage is to be celebrated outside Mass (but not necessarily outside a Church if they so wish). A sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church can only be had by two baptized Christians (need not both be Catholics ie one could be Protestant or Orthodox). </p><p> </p><p>A marriage between a Catholic and a non-Christian is thus a fully recognised, valid marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church but not the Sacrament of Matrimony because one has to be a baptized Christian and a believer in the doctrines of Trinitarian Christianity to partake of this sanctifying grace from God. </p><p> </p><p>A Catholic marrying a non-Christian thus cannot celebrate their wedding as a Nuptial Mass. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Read: </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">"...Marriage is only a sacrament when between baptized Christians. When a Catholic marries a non-Christian their marriage can be celebrated, as a covenant bond in a Catholic wedding ceremony, but it is not a sacrament...Marriages between Catholics and non Christians, while they may still be valid in the eyes of the Church, are non-sacramental. With permission, a priest or deacon may witness such marriages...A Nuptial Mass is a Mass which includes the celebration of the sacrament of marriage. It has special readings and prayers suitable to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage between two baptized Catholics should normally be celebrated within Mass. If the situation warrants it and the local bishop gives permission, a Nuptial Mass may be celebrated for a marriage between a Catholic and a baptized person who is not a Catholic, except that Communion is not given to the non-Catholic since the general law of the church does not allow it. In such instances, it is better to use the appropriate ritual for marriage outside Mass. This is always the case in a marriage between a baptized Catholic and a non-baptized person...If a Catholic marries a non-baptised person, the marriage is to be celebrated outside Mass...The Rite for Celebrating Marriage between a Catholic and an unbaptized person is set outside Mass within a Liturgy of the Word. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">Given multiple options for various elements, a couple can make choices that reflect their aspirations for marriage and are most appropriate for their family and the local community. The wedding liturgy can be personally expressive while proclaiming the Catholic vision for their union. The third form of the Rite for Celebrating Marriage, between a Catholic and an unbaptized person, while not a Sacrament (an unbaptized person does not celebrate a sacrament) is a complete and valid rite, signifying a permanent bond, that offers the couple many options. When the couple makes choices that reflect their own prayerfulness, religious practice, and social responsibility, their individuality and hopes for marriage will shine out in their Scripture, prayer, and music selections. Their wedding will be the holy, hospitable, and happy celebration it is meant to be, reflective of the Church’s vision for their marriage...</span> " </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>However the Catholic Church stills prefers that the spouses have some kind of Catholic wedding at least alongside a civil one or one in another religious body, which is the only difference I suppose <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> We have a whole Rite and ritual for marriages between Catholics and non-Christians. And of course, it likes if they celebrate their wedding at some point in a Catholic Church too. </p><p> </p><p>I suppose that a non-Sikh trying to partake of Anand Karaj would be not that dissimilar from a non-baptized, non-Christian person walking into a Catholic Church and declaring that he has a right to a sacramental marriage and a Nuptial Mass without any understanding of the Catholic teaching on marriage nor a commitment to Jesus Christ? </p><p> </p><p>Am I right? peacesign</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member15, post: 167234, member: 17438"] [b]Re: Militant Sikhs ruin wedding after barricading temple[/b] I understand where you are all coming from peacesignkaur I don't think that any of us are actually speaking out against interfaith marriage, in terms of a civil ceremony between two people of different faiths, which is I think fully legitimate and should certainly never be discouraged. However what we are talking about is non-Sikhs partaing of a matrimonial ceremony only for Sikhs - Anand Karaj. To me, an outsider looking in, this is not at all wrong. Catholics and people from other faiths, for example, are permitted to be married. The Catholic Church actually allows this to take place in a Catholic Church, which would be the only difference, however non-Christians cannot have a sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church because they are not baptised and the marriage is to be celebrated outside Mass (but not necessarily outside a Church if they so wish). A sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church can only be had by two baptized Christians (need not both be Catholics ie one could be Protestant or Orthodox). A marriage between a Catholic and a non-Christian is thus a fully recognised, valid marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church but not the Sacrament of Matrimony because one has to be a baptized Christian and a believer in the doctrines of Trinitarian Christianity to partake of this sanctifying grace from God. A Catholic marrying a non-Christian thus cannot celebrate their wedding as a Nuptial Mass. Read: [SIZE=3]"...Marriage is only a sacrament when between baptized Christians. When a Catholic marries a non-Christian their marriage can be celebrated, as a covenant bond in a Catholic wedding ceremony, but it is not a sacrament...Marriages between Catholics and non Christians, while they may still be valid in the eyes of the Church, are non-sacramental. With permission, a priest or deacon may witness such marriages...A Nuptial Mass is a Mass which includes the celebration of the sacrament of marriage. It has special readings and prayers suitable to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage between two baptized Catholics should normally be celebrated within Mass. If the situation warrants it and the local bishop gives permission, a Nuptial Mass may be celebrated for a marriage between a Catholic and a baptized person who is not a Catholic, except that Communion is not given to the non-Catholic since the general law of the church does not allow it. In such instances, it is better to use the appropriate ritual for marriage outside Mass. This is always the case in a marriage between a baptized Catholic and a non-baptized person...If a Catholic marries a non-baptised person, the marriage is to be celebrated outside Mass...The Rite for Celebrating Marriage between a Catholic and an unbaptized person is set outside Mass within a Liturgy of the Word. [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Given multiple options for various elements, a couple can make choices that reflect their aspirations for marriage and are most appropriate for their family and the local community. The wedding liturgy can be personally expressive while proclaiming the Catholic vision for their union. The third form of the Rite for Celebrating Marriage, between a Catholic and an unbaptized person, while not a Sacrament (an unbaptized person does not celebrate a sacrament) is a complete and valid rite, signifying a permanent bond, that offers the couple many options. When the couple makes choices that reflect their own prayerfulness, religious practice, and social responsibility, their individuality and hopes for marriage will shine out in their Scripture, prayer, and music selections. Their wedding will be the holy, hospitable, and happy celebration it is meant to be, reflective of the Church’s vision for their marriage...[/SIZE] " However the Catholic Church stills prefers that the spouses have some kind of Catholic wedding at least alongside a civil one or one in another religious body, which is the only difference I suppose :) We have a whole Rite and ritual for marriages between Catholics and non-Christians. And of course, it likes if they celebrate their wedding at some point in a Catholic Church too. I suppose that a non-Sikh trying to partake of Anand Karaj would be not that dissimilar from a non-baptized, non-Christian person walking into a Catholic Church and declaring that he has a right to a sacramental marriage and a Nuptial Mass without any understanding of the Catholic teaching on marriage nor a commitment to Jesus Christ? Am I right? peacesign [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Interviews
"Militant" Sikhs Ruin Wedding After Barricading Temple
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top