☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Kirpan (Brian Baldwin's Blog)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 129851" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>Dear and respected, Seekr3k ji</p><p></p><p>You did not offend me. For the sake of discussion, you need to know that I did not write this article. I only posted it. Every day I post about 10 articles on various subjects. So does Aman Singh. That way we can provide interesting reading in areas of gurmat vichaar, Sikh history, current events, the environment, Sikh practices. Things like that. So these thoughts are not my thoughts, but were part of an article on "Brian's blog."</p><p></p><p>I cannot address any comments by you or anyone else on the use of kirpan by Hindus. That is a subject about which I know next to nothing.</p><p></p><p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>Now to the question: where does it say that kirpan was part and parcel of a Sikh's being in Guru Nanak's bani? It doesn't say anything about <span style="color: Blue"><strong>kirpan</strong><strong> in so many words. </strong></span>But kirpan was part and parcel of Sikhi that long ago.<u> These are my thoughts.</u></p><p></p><p>These are the 2 references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib in which the word kirpan <span style="color: red"><span style="color: red"><span style="color: red"><span style="color: red">ਕਿਰਪਾਨ</span></span></span></span> is actually used. In both cases the word signifies "mercy," neither sword nor dagger.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ </span><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਪਾਵਉ ਦੀਜੈ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ </span><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਕਿਰਪਾਨਦ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span> <span style="color: DarkGreen"> saran saran saran prabh paavo dheejai saadhhasangath kirapaanadh ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span> <span style="color: DarkGreen"> O God, I seek Your Sanctuary, Your Sanctuary, Your Sanctuary; please mercifully bless me with the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. Ang 1205)</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span> <span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਹਰਿ ਹੋ ਹੋ ਕਿਰਪਾਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span> <span style="color: DarkGreen"> har ho ho kirapaan ||1|| rehaao ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span> <span style="color: DarkGreen"> The Lord shall be Merciful to you. ||1||Pause|</span>| (Ang 1297)</p><p></p><p>Once I replied in another thread that "kirpan" means sword of mercy. Another member with a need to see Sikhs as a martial race really gave me hell for saying that. I don't care. The word "kirpan" contains the word "kirpa." All of this in my mind points to 3 themes that are always playing in the background, or should be. 1) There is no difference between saint and soldier in Sikhism, everyone who takes Guru Nanak seriously is sant and sipahi. 2) There is no dividing line between saas raas and bir raas, there is "raas," and we get it from the shabad if we make an effort. 3) If one's belief in the shabad becomes justification for aggression and anger, then wearing a kirpan has only one function. To look like a dangerous character, a member of a martial race, and we have forgotten that it was the British that coined that term for their own nefarious purposes. </p><p></p><p>This is my understanding. If we can see ourselves to be sant/sipahi, and we accept the raas of the shabad, and we shed our need to perpetuate a manipulative myth of a warrior race, then we will understand why the kirpan given by Guru Gobind Singh is the same sword described in the ShabadGuru. In Guru Gobind Singh's day the fight was against Moghul tyrants. In our day the fight is against hunger and disease among earthquake victims in Haiti, honor killing, violence to the environment, dishonoring the turban, corruption in government, female foeticide, the caste system -- just to name a few battles on going. <span style="color: DarkGreen">ਖੰਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਰੇਨੁ ਛਾਰੀ ॥</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"> khannaa sagal raen shhaaree || My </span><span style="color: DarkGreen">dagger is to be the dust of all men's feet.</span></p><p></p><p>Back to your question regarding Guruji, who tells us in this pauree,</p><p></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਅਤਿ ਖੜਗੁ ਕਰਾਰਾ ॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">gur thae giaan paaeiaa ath kharrag karaaraa ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">From the Guru, I have obtained the supremely powerfu sword of spiritual wisdom.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"> </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਦੂਜਾ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਗੜੁ ਕਟਿਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ ॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">dhoojaa bhram garr kattiaa mohu lobh ahankaaraa ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">I have cut down the fortress of duality and doubt, attachment, greed and egotism.</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen"></span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥ </span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">har kaa naam man vasiaa gur sabadh veechaaraa ||</span></p><p><span style="color: DarkGreen">The Name of the Lord abides within my mind; I contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad.</span></p><p></p><p>Most of the time the battle we must fight is inside of us, a battle against egotism and doubt, duality and greed, attachment. However successful we are in that inner battle, that is how easy or difficult it will be to wear kirpan as the sword of mercy.</p><p></p><p>If we think of kirpan/sword as a weapon then it makes a difference, 3 inches or 6. If we think of kirpan as the sword of mercy it can be 12 feet long - what difference does it make?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 129851, member: 35"] Dear and respected, Seekr3k ji You did not offend me. For the sake of discussion, you need to know that I did not write this article. I only posted it. Every day I post about 10 articles on various subjects. So does Aman Singh. That way we can provide interesting reading in areas of gurmat vichaar, Sikh history, current events, the environment, Sikh practices. Things like that. So these thoughts are not my thoughts, but were part of an article on "Brian's blog." I cannot address any comments by you or anyone else on the use of kirpan by Hindus. That is a subject about which I know next to nothing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now to the question: where does it say that kirpan was part and parcel of a Sikh's being in Guru Nanak's bani? It doesn't say anything about [COLOR=Blue][B]kirpan[/B][B] in so many words. [/B][/COLOR]But kirpan was part and parcel of Sikhi that long ago.[U] These are my thoughts.[/U] These are the 2 references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib in which the word kirpan [COLOR=red][COLOR=red][COLOR=red][COLOR=red]ਕਿਰਪਾਨ[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] is actually used. In both cases the word signifies "mercy," neither sword nor dagger. [COLOR=DarkGreen]ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਨਿ ਸਰਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen]ਪਾਵਉ ਦੀਜੈ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen]ਕਿਰਪਾਨਦ ॥ [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen] saran saran saran prabh paavo dheejai saadhhasangath kirapaanadh || [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen] O God, I seek Your Sanctuary, Your Sanctuary, Your Sanctuary; please mercifully bless me with the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy. Ang 1205) [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen] [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen]ਹਰਿ ਹੋ ਹੋ ਕਿਰਪਾਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen] har ho ho kirapaan ||1|| rehaao || [/COLOR] [COLOR=DarkGreen] The Lord shall be Merciful to you. ||1||Pause|[/COLOR]| (Ang 1297) Once I replied in another thread that "kirpan" means sword of mercy. Another member with a need to see Sikhs as a martial race really gave me hell for saying that. I don't care. The word "kirpan" contains the word "kirpa." All of this in my mind points to 3 themes that are always playing in the background, or should be. 1) There is no difference between saint and soldier in Sikhism, everyone who takes Guru Nanak seriously is sant and sipahi. 2) There is no dividing line between saas raas and bir raas, there is "raas," and we get it from the shabad if we make an effort. 3) If one's belief in the shabad becomes justification for aggression and anger, then wearing a kirpan has only one function. To look like a dangerous character, a member of a martial race, and we have forgotten that it was the British that coined that term for their own nefarious purposes. This is my understanding. If we can see ourselves to be sant/sipahi, and we accept the raas of the shabad, and we shed our need to perpetuate a manipulative myth of a warrior race, then we will understand why the kirpan given by Guru Gobind Singh is the same sword described in the ShabadGuru. In Guru Gobind Singh's day the fight was against Moghul tyrants. In our day the fight is against hunger and disease among earthquake victims in Haiti, honor killing, violence to the environment, dishonoring the turban, corruption in government, female foeticide, the caste system -- just to name a few battles on going. [COLOR=DarkGreen]ਖੰਨਾ ਸਗਲ ਰੇਨੁ ਛਾਰੀ ॥ khannaa sagal raen shhaaree || My [/COLOR][COLOR=DarkGreen]dagger is to be the dust of all men's feet.[/COLOR] Back to your question regarding Guruji, who tells us in this pauree, [COLOR=DarkGreen]ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਅਤਿ ਖੜਗੁ ਕਰਾਰਾ ॥ gur thae giaan paaeiaa ath kharrag karaaraa || From the Guru, I have obtained the supremely powerfu sword of spiritual wisdom. ਦੂਜਾ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਗੜੁ ਕਟਿਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰਾ ॥ dhoojaa bhram garr kattiaa mohu lobh ahankaaraa || I have cut down the fortress of duality and doubt, attachment, greed and egotism. ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਵੀਚਾਰਾ ॥ har kaa naam man vasiaa gur sabadh veechaaraa || The Name of the Lord abides within my mind; I contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad.[/COLOR] Most of the time the battle we must fight is inside of us, a battle against egotism and doubt, duality and greed, attachment. However successful we are in that inner battle, that is how easy or difficult it will be to wear kirpan as the sword of mercy. If we think of kirpan/sword as a weapon then it makes a difference, 3 inches or 6. If we think of kirpan as the sword of mercy it can be 12 feet long - what difference does it make? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Kirpan (Brian Baldwin's Blog)
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top