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Karma, Freewill & Hukam In Sikhism
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<blockquote data-quote="Ishna" data-source="post: 137518" data-attributes="member: 2709"><p>The more I read into the idea of Hukam and free-will, the more I detect a contradiction within Gurbani. I'm sure that is not the case and it is my understanding which is flawed. I would appreciate assistance with this problem if possible, please. </p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਪੂਰੇ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਗੁਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਹੁਕਮੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਨ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੰਨੈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਮੰਨੈ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਓਹੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਓਹੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਮੁਖੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਮਨਮੁਖੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਗਿਆਨੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਅਗਿਆਨੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੁਠਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਮੁਠਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਿਖੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਬਿਖੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਇਆ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਮਾਇਆ </span></a>॥</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue">Pūre gur kā hukam na mannai oh manmukẖ agi▫ān muṯẖā bikẖ mā▫i▫ā.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000080">One who does not obey the Hukam, the Command of the Perfect Guru - that self-willed manmukh is plundered by his ignorance and poisoned by Maya. (P303)</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਜਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਸੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਤਿਸੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਾਵੈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਭਾਵੈ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਤਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਹੁਕਮੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਾਵੈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਮਨਾਵੈ </span></a>॥</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080">Jā ṯis bẖāvai ṯā hukam manāvai.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #000080">When it is pleasing to Him, then He inspires us to obey the Hukam of His Command. (P337)</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੰਨੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਮੰਨੇ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਹੁਕਮੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਸੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਰਗਟੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਪਰਗਟੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾਇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਜਾਇ </span></a><span style="color: #800000">॥</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080">Manne hukam so pargat jā▫e.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #000080">One who obeys the Hukam of the Lord's Command, goes to Him openly.(P355)</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੋ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਸੋ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੇਵਕੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਸੇਵਕੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੇਵਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਸੇਵਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਕਰੇ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਸ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਜਿਸ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨੋ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਨੋ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਹੁਕਮੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਾਇਸੀ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਮਨਾਇਸੀ </span></a><span style="color: #800000">॥</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080">So sevak sevā kare jis no hukam manā▫isī.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #000080">That servant, whom the Lord causes to obey the Order of His Will, serves Him. (P471)</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਨਾਨਕ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਹੁਕਮੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਨ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੰਨਈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਮੰਨਈ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਤਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਘਰ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਘਰ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੀ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਹੀ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅੰਦਰਿ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਅੰਦਰਿ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦੂਰਿ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #800000">ਦੂਰਿ </span></a><span style="color: #800000">॥</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #800000"></span>Nānak hukam na mann▫ī ṯā gẖar hī anḏar ḏūr.</span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #000080">O Nanak, if one does not obey the Hukam of the Lord's Command, then within one's own home, the Lord seems far away. (P510)</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਜਿਤੁ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕੋ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਾਇਆ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਲਾਇਆ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਤ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਤਿਤ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੀ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਹੀ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਾਗਾ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਲਾਗਾ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤੈਸੇ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਤੈਸੇ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰਮ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕਰਮ </span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਮਾਵੈ" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0000ff">ਕਮਾਵੈ </span></a><span style="color: #800000">॥</span> </span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'">Jiṯ ko lā▫i▫ā ṯiṯ hī lāgā ṯaise karam kamāvai.</span> </span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: #000080">He is attached to that, to which the Lord has attached him, and he acts accordingly.</span></span> (P476... not one of my favourite pages...)</span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: black">So which is is?? Sometimes it is written we can choose to follow the Hukam. Other times it is written that Waheguru directs us to follow the Hukam or not. My brain is going to explode soon!</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #000000">Thanks for any assistance (if possible).</span></span></p><p> <span style="color: #000080"></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"><span style="color: #000000">Ishna</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000080"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ishna, post: 137518, member: 2709"] The more I read into the idea of Hukam and free-will, the more I detect a contradiction within Gurbani. I'm sure that is not the case and it is my understanding which is flawed. I would appreciate assistance with this problem if possible, please. [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪੂਰੇ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਪੂਰੇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗੁਰ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਗੁਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਹੁਕਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਨ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੰਨੈ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮੰਨੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਓਹੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਓਹੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਮੁਖੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮਨਮੁਖੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅਗਿਆਨੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਅਗਿਆਨੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੁਠਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮੁਠਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਬਿਖੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਬਿਖੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਾਇਆ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮਾਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=blue]Pūre gur kā hukam na mannai oh manmukẖ agi▫ān muṯẖā bikẖ mā▫i▫ā.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#000080]One who does not obey the Hukam, the Command of the Perfect Guru - that self-willed manmukh is plundered by his ignorance and poisoned by Maya. (P303)[/COLOR] [COLOR=#000080][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000080][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਜਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਸੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਤਿਸੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਾਵੈ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਭਾਵੈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਤਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਹੁਕਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਾਵੈ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਮਨਾਵੈ [/COLOR][/URL]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] Jā ṯis bẖāvai ṯā hukam manāvai. [COLOR=#000080]When it is pleasing to Him, then He inspires us to obey the Hukam of His Command. (P337)[/COLOR] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੰਨੇ"][COLOR=#800000]ਮੰਨੇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਹੁਕਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਸੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਪਰਗਟੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਪਰਗਟੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਾਇ"][COLOR=#800000]ਜਾਇ [/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#800000]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] Manne hukam so pargat jā▫e. [COLOR=#000080]One who obeys the Hukam of the Lord's Command, goes to Him openly.(P355)[/COLOR] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੋ"][COLOR=#800000]ਸੋ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੇਵਕੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਸੇਵਕੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਸੇਵਾ"][COLOR=#800000]ਸੇਵਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰੇ"][COLOR=#800000]ਕਰੇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਸ"][COLOR=#800000]ਜਿਸ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨੋ"][COLOR=#800000]ਨੋ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਹੁਕਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮਨਾਇਸੀ"][COLOR=#800000]ਮਨਾਇਸੀ [/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#800000]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] So sevak sevā kare jis no hukam manā▫isī. [COLOR=#000080]That servant, whom the Lord causes to obey the Order of His Will, serves Him. (P471)[/COLOR] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨਾਨਕ"][COLOR=#800000]ਨਾਨਕ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੁਕਮੁ"][COLOR=#800000]ਹੁਕਮੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਨ"][COLOR=#800000]ਨ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੰਨਈ"][COLOR=#800000]ਮੰਨਈ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਾ"][COLOR=#800000]ਤਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਘਰ"][COLOR=#800000]ਘਰ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੀ"][COLOR=#800000]ਹੀ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅੰਦਰਿ"][COLOR=#800000]ਅੰਦਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਦੂਰਿ"][COLOR=#800000]ਦੂਰਿ [/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#800000]॥ [/COLOR]Nānak hukam na mann▫ī ṯā gẖar hī anḏar ḏūr. [COLOR=#000080]O Nanak, if one does not obey the Hukam of the Lord's Command, then within one's own home, the Lord seems far away. (P510)[/COLOR] [URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਜਿਤੁ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਜਿਤੁ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕੋ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕੋ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਾਇਆ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਲਾਇਆ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤਿਤ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਤਿਤ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਹੀ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਹੀ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਲਾਗਾ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਲਾਗਾ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਤੈਸੇ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਤੈਸੇ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਰਮ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕਰਮ [/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਕਮਾਵੈ"][COLOR=#0000ff]ਕਮਾਵੈ [/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#800000]॥[/COLOR] [FONT=TAHOMA]Jiṯ ko lā▫i▫ā ṯiṯ hī lāgā ṯaise karam kamāvai.[/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][COLOR=#000080]He is attached to that, to which the Lord has attached him, and he acts accordingly.[/COLOR][/FONT] (P476... not one of my favourite pages...) [COLOR=black]So which is is?? Sometimes it is written we can choose to follow the Hukam. Other times it is written that Waheguru directs us to follow the Hukam or not. My brain is going to explode soon![/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000]Thanks for any assistance (if possible).[/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000][/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000]Ishna[/COLOR] [/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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Karma, Freewill & Hukam In Sikhism
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