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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
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Ghoriaan (575-578)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
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Gurbani (660-685)
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Gurbani (696-703)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
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Gurbani (721-727)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
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Gurbani (795-831)
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Thitteen (838-840)
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Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
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Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
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Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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<blockquote data-quote="kharkoo4life" data-source="post: 21878" data-attributes="member: 1348"><p>Dear Truth Seeker,</p><p> </p><p>thank you for your informative posts. I would like to make only a single point though, specifically with regards to the following statment:</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This analogy though creative in appearance and imagination does not rest on any sound logic, particularly scientific logic (since it seems the whole goal here is to qualify the verses of the koran with strong scientific support). Raising of clouds and falling of rain is merely a transformation of state -- from liquid to gaseous back to liquid. The initial matter (water) remains unchanged (i.e. it does not die nor is it reborn, it merely undergoes structural rearrangements).</p><p> </p><p>Similarly growht of plants is also simply a nomral part of development of any living creation. Again, no where does the plan "die" and become "resurrected" anywhere along this cycle of growth.</p><p> </p><p>However, in stark contrast to this, human revival/ressurection after death entails a completley different postulation. One which deals neither with mere structural rearrangement or mere growth. Thus the above analogy is of limited if any use in supporting or describing the process of ressurection. (i am not against anyone wishin to discuss or put forth the belief of ressurection but if they do wish to i would hope they are able to employ stronger arguments, examples for their beliefs)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>I do not see how the above can be possible and nor the value of such a process, either from a scientic or spiritual perspective.</p><p> </p><p>Firstly, one must decide whether the soul is a physical or non physical entity. If we agree that the soul is a formless, nonphysical entity then why does its fate rest on a physical entity? Why would the soul remain confined to a lifeless corpse for an indefinite number of years (maybe thousands if not millions of years) solely waiting for the arrival of "judgement day"?</p><p> </p><p>Furthermore, it is a fact even one which science accepts, that there is no physical thing which can last forever. The human body in particular has a very limited existence. No matter how hard we try to peserve our bodies, while alive, or after death, all bodies eventually decay.</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">jb jrIAY qb hoie Bsm qnu rhY ikrm dl KweI ]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">When the body is burnt, it turns to ashes; if it is not cremated, then it is eaten by armies of worms.</span></em></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">kwcI gwgir nIru prqu hY ieAw qn kI iehY bfweI ]1]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">The unbaked clay pitcher dissolves, when water is poured into it; this is also the nature of the body. </span></em></p><p></p><p>So there is no advantage in putting ones body in a grave or cremating it. In either cae the body shall eventually turn to dust. IF one wishes to put the body of a deceased in grave then they can by all means, but they should not do so with the thought that one day this body will miracuosly be ressurected. For Guru Nanak has told us himself that the fate of the soul after the body dies is unknown. We can philosphize, analyze, discuss this as much as we want but only God Himself knows the true aftermath.</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">iek dJih iek dbIAih ieknw kuqy Kwih ]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Some are cremated, and some are buried; some are eaten by dogs.</span></em></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">ieik pwxI ivic austIAih ieik BI iPir hsix pwih ]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Some are thrown into water, while others are thrown into wells.</span></em></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">nwnk eyv n jwpeI ikQY jwie smwih ]2]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">O Nanak, it is not known, where they go and into what they merge. </span></em></p><p> (SGGS p.648)</p><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Again, while the above theory seems very appealing and creative in nature it breaks down in realm of spirituality/Truth. We accept God as being the Creator of the entire universe and furthermore being present in every tiny corner of that Creation.</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">PrIdw Kwlku Klk mih Klk vsY rb mwih ]</span></span></p><p><em>Fareed, the Creator is in the Creation, and the Creation abides in God.</em> </p><p> </p><p>It is our own naiveness that we assume God may not be watchin our every move, or that even tho record of our actions is being kept it will not be analyzed and reviewed until much much later. This is far from the truth. The truth is that God is everywhere:</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">logw Brim n BUlhu BweI ]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.</span></em></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">Kwilku Klk Klk mih Kwilku pUir rihE sRb TWeI ]1] rhwau ]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. </span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">And more importantly He is watching over our every move:</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">Awpy krqw kir kir vyKY ]</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px"></span></span><em>The Creator Himself creates the creation, and watches over it.</em></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>So that being said, if God is omnipresent why would He have to send down angles or prophets at a later date to take account of our actions? God is not dependent on others to review our actions. He does it Himself, and is doing it as we speak! True judgement is not confined to some single day but is occuring every moment of our lives. That is the whole point behind the saying "we reap what we sow". We dont do good now so that we can get something after our bodily death, or something many thousands of years from now on some special chosen day, we do good now so we can feel good now, and help those around us feel good now as well. And god rewards us for our good actions now!</p><p> </p><p>Thus i find it very hard to see any reason laced logic which could support the argument that one has to wait in the grave waiting or judgment day to arrive.</p><p> </p><p>As a final note, not to discard everythin that was stated in your post, i think at times many of us, regardless of which faith we follow, tend to get stuck on literal interpretation of the messages of the founders of our respective faiths.</p><p> </p><p>In Sikhism, there is also ample talk of dying and being born again. But this process of "revival" does not refer to physical bodily ressurection but ressurection of ones mind. A transformation of ones thinking and approach to life such that they come to realize Truth (god).</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'"><span style="font-size: 15px">gur kY sbid mrih iPir jIvih iqn kau mukiq duAwir ]</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Those who die in the Word of the Guru's Shabad are reborn; they find the door of liberation.</span></em></p><p></p><p>This is what true ressurection and salvation is all about. And i think that most faiths teach the same, its just that over time this original message has become clouded by misinterpretations and selfish motives by the preachers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kharkoo4life, post: 21878, member: 1348"] Dear Truth Seeker, thank you for your informative posts. I would like to make only a single point though, specifically with regards to the following statment: This analogy though creative in appearance and imagination does not rest on any sound logic, particularly scientific logic (since it seems the whole goal here is to qualify the verses of the koran with strong scientific support). Raising of clouds and falling of rain is merely a transformation of state -- from liquid to gaseous back to liquid. The initial matter (water) remains unchanged (i.e. it does not die nor is it reborn, it merely undergoes structural rearrangements). Similarly growht of plants is also simply a nomral part of development of any living creation. Again, no where does the plan "die" and become "resurrected" anywhere along this cycle of growth. However, in stark contrast to this, human revival/ressurection after death entails a completley different postulation. One which deals neither with mere structural rearrangement or mere growth. Thus the above analogy is of limited if any use in supporting or describing the process of ressurection. (i am not against anyone wishin to discuss or put forth the belief of ressurection but if they do wish to i would hope they are able to employ stronger arguments, examples for their beliefs) I do not see how the above can be possible and nor the value of such a process, either from a scientic or spiritual perspective. Firstly, one must decide whether the soul is a physical or non physical entity. If we agree that the soul is a formless, nonphysical entity then why does its fate rest on a physical entity? Why would the soul remain confined to a lifeless corpse for an indefinite number of years (maybe thousands if not millions of years) solely waiting for the arrival of "judgement day"? Furthermore, it is a fact even one which science accepts, that there is no physical thing which can last forever. The human body in particular has a very limited existence. No matter how hard we try to peserve our bodies, while alive, or after death, all bodies eventually decay. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]jb jrIAY qb hoie Bsm qnu rhY ikrm dl KweI ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]When the body is burnt, it turns to ashes; if it is not cremated, then it is eaten by armies of worms.[/FONT][/I] [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]kwcI gwgir nIru prqu hY ieAw qn kI iehY bfweI ]1][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]The unbaked clay pitcher dissolves, when water is poured into it; this is also the nature of the body. [/FONT][/I] So there is no advantage in putting ones body in a grave or cremating it. In either cae the body shall eventually turn to dust. IF one wishes to put the body of a deceased in grave then they can by all means, but they should not do so with the thought that one day this body will miracuosly be ressurected. For Guru Nanak has told us himself that the fate of the soul after the body dies is unknown. We can philosphize, analyze, discuss this as much as we want but only God Himself knows the true aftermath. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]iek dJih iek dbIAih ieknw kuqy Kwih ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]Some are cremated, and some are buried; some are eaten by dogs.[/FONT][/I] [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]ieik pwxI ivic austIAih ieik BI iPir hsix pwih ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]Some are thrown into water, while others are thrown into wells.[/FONT][/I] [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]nwnk eyv n jwpeI ikQY jwie smwih ]2][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]O Nanak, it is not known, where they go and into what they merge. [/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/I] (SGGS p.648) Again, while the above theory seems very appealing and creative in nature it breaks down in realm of spirituality/Truth. We accept God as being the Creator of the entire universe and furthermore being present in every tiny corner of that Creation. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]PrIdw Kwlku Klk mih Klk vsY rb mwih ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I]Fareed, the Creator is in the Creation, and the Creation abides in God.[/I] It is our own naiveness that we assume God may not be watchin our every move, or that even tho record of our actions is being kept it will not be analyzed and reviewed until much much later. This is far from the truth. The truth is that God is everywhere: [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]logw Brim n BUlhu BweI ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.[/FONT][/I] [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]Kwilku Klk Klk mih Kwilku pUir rihE sRb TWeI ]1] rhwau ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. [/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/I] [FONT=Arial]And more importantly He is watching over our every move:[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]Awpy krqw kir kir vyKY ] [/SIZE][/FONT][I]The Creator Himself creates the creation, and watches over it.[/I] So that being said, if God is omnipresent why would He have to send down angles or prophets at a later date to take account of our actions? God is not dependent on others to review our actions. He does it Himself, and is doing it as we speak! True judgement is not confined to some single day but is occuring every moment of our lives. That is the whole point behind the saying "we reap what we sow". We dont do good now so that we can get something after our bodily death, or something many thousands of years from now on some special chosen day, we do good now so we can feel good now, and help those around us feel good now as well. And god rewards us for our good actions now! Thus i find it very hard to see any reason laced logic which could support the argument that one has to wait in the grave waiting or judgment day to arrive. As a final note, not to discard everythin that was stated in your post, i think at times many of us, regardless of which faith we follow, tend to get stuck on literal interpretation of the messages of the founders of our respective faiths. In Sikhism, there is also ample talk of dying and being born again. But this process of "revival" does not refer to physical bodily ressurection but ressurection of ones mind. A transformation of ones thinking and approach to life such that they come to realize Truth (god). [FONT=GurbaniWebThick][SIZE=4]gur kY sbid mrih iPir jIvih iqn kau mukiq duAwir ][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]Those who die in the Word of the Guru's Shabad are reborn; they find the door of liberation.[/FONT][/I] This is what true ressurection and salvation is all about. And i think that most faiths teach the same, its just that over time this original message has become clouded by misinterpretations and selfish motives by the preachers. [/QUOTE]
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