☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Hard Talk
Is There A God?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="spnadmin" data-source="post: 122950" data-attributes="member: 35"><p>I only want at this point to cull out a few ideas from the last several posts.</p><p></p><p>Taranjeet ji,</p><p></p><p>Your comments are very thoughtful May I clarify some ideas that you reacted too? As per the verse <span style="color: blue">Toon mera pita toon hain mera mata. Toon mera bandhap toon mera bratha<span style="color: Black">, The very fact that God is described as mother, father, brother, in one single verse, suggests to me that Guruji is not referring to the roles of mother, father and brother in the actual world. In the actual world it is materially impossible to be all 3 at the same time. Guruji is describing the all encompassing embrace of the Divine like the embrace of mother, father brother and even more.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">I wrote nonexistent and self existent as <strong>non</strong>Existent <strong>and self existent</strong> on purpose, deliberately, to acknowledge that the existence of God is <strong>not </strong>subject to rules of evidence or methods of scientific inquiry. A God who is self-created would not be the subject of a scientific theory and need not be tested scientifically. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">Insisting that the same principles be applied to proof of god as are applied to proof of a scientific principle (example, natural selection) is to use tools of science incorrectly. Why?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p> <span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">Because it is not the business of science to prove anything. The business of science is dis-comfirmation, not verification. And science uses it tools of inquiry to disconfirm theories and hypotheses until all attempts at discomfirmation have failed. Only then will science say that something is "True." Or rather it will say "Not False."</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">The question Does God Exist cannot be answered scientifically, and a scientist true to his boots, would not insist that His existence be treated as a scientific problem. A different kind of proof is possible, has been discussed elsewhere in the forum, and no one to date has felt it important enough to pursue it. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">Something interesting here <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-schrei/the-burden-of-proof-how-a_b_504667.html" target="_blank">Josh Schrei: The Burden of Proof: How Atheism Has Adopted a Worldview That Science Never Intended</a></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">To curious seeker ji</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">I agree with you. There are conversations that work better among "theists." Here are some ideas for conversation that might result from this thread.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">1. Assume for the sake of argument: The God who created the object of science, the natural universe, is the same God who willed the human intelligence to discover the principles of science that are used to study that universe. <em>Is it likely that science can lead us to the discovery of that God? </em></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"><em></em></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"><em></em>There are some interesting nuggets assumed within the problem that would need to be explored on the road to answering the question.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black">2. I<em>s there a God?</em> Is that the same question as <em>Does God exist?</em></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"><em></em></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"><em></em>3. Which phrase is more consistent with theism? <em>"belief in God" or "belief that there is a God."</em></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"><em></em></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"><em></em>None of the 3 really should take too much time and space.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: blue"><span style="color: Black"></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="spnadmin, post: 122950, member: 35"] I only want at this point to cull out a few ideas from the last several posts. Taranjeet ji, Your comments are very thoughtful May I clarify some ideas that you reacted too? As per the verse [COLOR=blue]Toon mera pita toon hain mera mata. Toon mera bandhap toon mera bratha[COLOR=Black], The very fact that God is described as mother, father, brother, in one single verse, suggests to me that Guruji is not referring to the roles of mother, father and brother in the actual world. In the actual world it is materially impossible to be all 3 at the same time. Guruji is describing the all encompassing embrace of the Divine like the embrace of mother, father brother and even more. I wrote nonexistent and self existent as [B]non[/B]Existent [B]and self existent[/B] on purpose, deliberately, to acknowledge that the existence of God is [B]not [/B]subject to rules of evidence or methods of scientific inquiry. A God who is self-created would not be the subject of a scientific theory and need not be tested scientifically. Insisting that the same principles be applied to proof of god as are applied to proof of a scientific principle (example, natural selection) is to use tools of science incorrectly. Why? Because it is not the business of science to prove anything. The business of science is dis-comfirmation, not verification. And science uses it tools of inquiry to disconfirm theories and hypotheses until all attempts at discomfirmation have failed. Only then will science say that something is "True." Or rather it will say "Not False." The question Does God Exist cannot be answered scientifically, and a scientist true to his boots, would not insist that His existence be treated as a scientific problem. A different kind of proof is possible, has been discussed elsewhere in the forum, and no one to date has felt it important enough to pursue it. Something interesting here [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-schrei/the-burden-of-proof-how-a_b_504667.html]Josh Schrei: The Burden of Proof: How Atheism Has Adopted a Worldview That Science Never Intended[/url] To curious seeker ji I agree with you. There are conversations that work better among "theists." Here are some ideas for conversation that might result from this thread. [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=blue][COLOR=Black] 1. Assume for the sake of argument: The God who created the object of science, the natural universe, is the same God who willed the human intelligence to discover the principles of science that are used to study that universe. [I]Is it likely that science can lead us to the discovery of that God? [/I]There are some interesting nuggets assumed within the problem that would need to be explored on the road to answering the question. 2. I[I]s there a God?[/I] Is that the same question as [I]Does God exist? [/I]3. Which phrase is more consistent with theism? [I]"belief in God" or "belief that there is a God." [/I]None of the 3 really should take too much time and space. [/COLOR][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Hard Talk
Is There A God?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top