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Hard Talk
Is Sikhism Succumbing To Fundamentalism?
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<blockquote data-quote="lotus lion" data-source="post: 103121" data-attributes="member: 5620"><p>Hi,</p><p> </p><p>With regards to the question in hand, No, I do not believe that Sikhi is succumbing to Fundamentalism. </p><p> </p><p>btw, for me Fundamentalism means something like Hizb-ut-Tahrir and The Sikhs are nowhere near that, as far as i can tell anyway.</p><p> </p><p>wrt to the article, i can only say that i read it with interest. </p><p> </p><p>For me there was nothing in there that pointed to Fundamentalism. If anything, it spoke of the variety that life has to offer and i would say had tone of dissapointed naivity.</p><p> </p><p>It is a shame that the Brother who wrote this article is not here to engage in some dialog regarding the issues raised. </p><p> </p><p>My first concern would be that we, including the Brother, are frankly quite judgemental and have no room for manouver. Generally speaking of course. </p><p> </p><p>There is diversity in life and different people value different things. I for example hold Ethics over Money, but another person may not. Would it be right of me to argue with this person or visa-versa?</p><p> </p><p>We are ridge and like the Tree in the Wind will crack when the Pressure picks up as we have no flexability in us if we continue down this path.</p><p> </p><p>I have never really understood why Sikhs are so concerned that every single individual subscribe to their version, understanding and level of comfort with Sikhi.</p><p> </p><p>Answering some points raised:</p><p> </p><p><em>...Yet the world's fifth largest organised religion has a caste system of its own</em></p><p> </p><p>The Caste system has been established for over 1000 years and is part of the very psyche of every single Person who is of Asian origin. It is practiced in other Dharmas also, such as Islam, even though they do not allow it either. </p><p>The Followers have simply reached an equilibrium that they were comfortable with so that they could operate in their society. Clearly, depending on their upbringing and Dharma, this will have different effects on the person.</p><p> </p><p>To drive the point home, if i were to ask weather the Author or the Article was of Working ,Middle or Upper class origin, i feel that he would be able to answer within a heart beat as this is part of the British psyche.</p><p> </p><p>Please note I am not defending the caste system, but simply explaining that something that has/is been practiced for over 1000 years is not going to vanish over night.</p><p> </p><p>As we all know, Sikhi teaches that one should not follow the caste system:</p><p> </p><p><strong><em>"Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||"</em></strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><em>SGGS Ang 349</em></strong></p><p> </p><p><em>Even in Britain you'll find different Sikh temples belonging to different groups on the same road.</em></p><p> </p><p>And the same is found in other Dharma's. Let us take Christianity as an example now. There is a church down the road from my Gurdwara where there are the followers are of Black origin and move up the road and only White people go there. Ofcourse they do intermingle, but by and large, Black people stick together as do the white people.</p><p> </p><p>This can be found up and down the streets of Britain also, but i have never seen an issue raised about this in the same way.</p><p> </p><p><em>But certain Sikh sects do believe in living human gurus, some mainstream Sikh families revere spiritual figures and ancestors</em></p><p> </p><p>Certain Muslims beleive that divine revelation will continue until the end of time even though according to Islamic belief Mohammed was apparently the last prophet.</p><p> </p><p>Source: <a href="http://www.indianetzone.com/27/ahmadiyya_sect_islam.htm" target="_blank">Ahmadiyya Sect, Islam</a></p><p> </p><p>And Chinese Worship Ancestors also.</p><p> </p><p>Source: <a href="http://www.globaled.org/chinaproject/religion.html" target="_blank">In the Middle Kingdom - Religion</a></p><p> </p><p>Dharma is 'pure' but is mixed with the local understanding and it comes out in a particular way. These things will happen. </p><p> </p><p>I for example do Buddhist Meditation and everytime i enter the building, i touch the floor and then touch my Pugh. This is not a Buddhist practice, but something that has come over from my Sikh and Punjabi upbringing which i am incredibly proud of. </p><p>I do not think it would be right if someone stopped me doing that just beucase it does not fit with the Buddhists view of how i should conduct myself. </p><p> </p><p><em>Then there's the issue of booze. Officially, Sikhs don't drink...[But] "Consumption of alcohol has always been high among Sikhs, with the per capita rate among Sikhs of Punjab among the highest in the world" </em></p><p> </p><p>This is strange topic as i am of the belief that this has infact been engineered by others who wish to see our destruction. </p><p> </p><p>Having spoken to many elders i did ask if Sikhs always drunk like we known to today and the overwhelming response is always no. Yes, we are known to have the ability to hold our drink, but never to such ridiculous excesses.</p><p> </p><p>There were never as many Alcohol shops per square metre as there are today in Punjab, and Amritsar alone generates Rs1 Crore for the goverment alone a day. </p><p>Also when Organisations are setup no support is given by the goverment.</p><p> </p><p>Source: <a href="http://www.mrsikhnet.com/index.php/2006/11/30/drug-addiction-in-punjab-3ho-superhealth/" target="_blank">Drug Addiction in Punjab - 3HO SuperHealth | MrSikhNet</a> </p><p> </p><p>In the same way that the Sikhs have the ability to laugh at themselves, this too has been taken to such extremes by others that we are now having to fight for our respect and dignity. </p><p> </p><p><em>There are other contradictions. Sikhs are meant to adopt the name "Singh", meaning "lion", as a way of encouraging equality (one's caste can often be identified by a surname), but many of us use it only as a middle name.</em></p><p> </p><p>This is the manisfestation of the psyche coming out again and one has to understand that people will do these things, me included.</p><p> </p><p><em>The Gurus declared men and women to be equal, but Punjabi culture is highly patriarchal.</em></p><p> </p><p>There is currently a vacum for teaching the Dharma in a meaningful way and add to this that women have not really been treated fairly by men all over the world. Sikhs of Punjab have to learn like everyone else. Rome was not built in a Day as the saying goes.</p><p> </p><p>I could go on, but i believe that the point has been made.</p><p> </p><p>My best regards,</p><p> </p><p>Lotus</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lotus lion, post: 103121, member: 5620"] Hi, With regards to the question in hand, No, I do not believe that Sikhi is succumbing to Fundamentalism. btw, for me Fundamentalism means something like Hizb-ut-Tahrir and The Sikhs are nowhere near that, as far as i can tell anyway. wrt to the article, i can only say that i read it with interest. For me there was nothing in there that pointed to Fundamentalism. If anything, it spoke of the variety that life has to offer and i would say had tone of dissapointed naivity. It is a shame that the Brother who wrote this article is not here to engage in some dialog regarding the issues raised. My first concern would be that we, including the Brother, are frankly quite judgemental and have no room for manouver. Generally speaking of course. There is diversity in life and different people value different things. I for example hold Ethics over Money, but another person may not. Would it be right of me to argue with this person or visa-versa? We are ridge and like the Tree in the Wind will crack when the Pressure picks up as we have no flexability in us if we continue down this path. I have never really understood why Sikhs are so concerned that every single individual subscribe to their version, understanding and level of comfort with Sikhi. Answering some points raised: [I]...Yet the world's fifth largest organised religion has a caste system of its own[/I] The Caste system has been established for over 1000 years and is part of the very psyche of every single Person who is of Asian origin. It is practiced in other Dharmas also, such as Islam, even though they do not allow it either. The Followers have simply reached an equilibrium that they were comfortable with so that they could operate in their society. Clearly, depending on their upbringing and Dharma, this will have different effects on the person. To drive the point home, if i were to ask weather the Author or the Article was of Working ,Middle or Upper class origin, i feel that he would be able to answer within a heart beat as this is part of the British psyche. Please note I am not defending the caste system, but simply explaining that something that has/is been practiced for over 1000 years is not going to vanish over night. As we all know, Sikhi teaches that one should not follow the caste system: [B][I]"Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. ||1||Pause||"[/I][/B] [B][I]SGGS Ang 349[/I][/B] [I]Even in Britain you'll find different Sikh temples belonging to different groups on the same road.[/I] And the same is found in other Dharma's. Let us take Christianity as an example now. There is a church down the road from my Gurdwara where there are the followers are of Black origin and move up the road and only White people go there. Ofcourse they do intermingle, but by and large, Black people stick together as do the white people. This can be found up and down the streets of Britain also, but i have never seen an issue raised about this in the same way. [I]But certain Sikh sects do believe in living human gurus, some mainstream Sikh families revere spiritual figures and ancestors[/I] Certain Muslims beleive that divine revelation will continue until the end of time even though according to Islamic belief Mohammed was apparently the last prophet. Source: [URL="http://www.indianetzone.com/27/ahmadiyya_sect_islam.htm"]Ahmadiyya Sect, Islam[/URL] And Chinese Worship Ancestors also. Source: [URL="http://www.globaled.org/chinaproject/religion.html"]In the Middle Kingdom - Religion[/URL] Dharma is 'pure' but is mixed with the local understanding and it comes out in a particular way. These things will happen. I for example do Buddhist Meditation and everytime i enter the building, i touch the floor and then touch my Pugh. This is not a Buddhist practice, but something that has come over from my Sikh and Punjabi upbringing which i am incredibly proud of. I do not think it would be right if someone stopped me doing that just beucase it does not fit with the Buddhists view of how i should conduct myself. [I]Then there's the issue of booze. Officially, Sikhs don't drink...[But] "Consumption of alcohol has always been high among Sikhs, with the per capita rate among Sikhs of Punjab among the highest in the world" [/I] This is strange topic as i am of the belief that this has infact been engineered by others who wish to see our destruction. Having spoken to many elders i did ask if Sikhs always drunk like we known to today and the overwhelming response is always no. Yes, we are known to have the ability to hold our drink, but never to such ridiculous excesses. There were never as many Alcohol shops per square metre as there are today in Punjab, and Amritsar alone generates Rs1 Crore for the goverment alone a day. Also when Organisations are setup no support is given by the goverment. Source: [URL="http://www.mrsikhnet.com/index.php/2006/11/30/drug-addiction-in-punjab-3ho-superhealth/"]Drug Addiction in Punjab - 3HO SuperHealth | MrSikhNet[/URL] In the same way that the Sikhs have the ability to laugh at themselves, this too has been taken to such extremes by others that we are now having to fight for our respect and dignity. [I]There are other contradictions. Sikhs are meant to adopt the name "Singh", meaning "lion", as a way of encouraging equality (one's caste can often be identified by a surname), but many of us use it only as a middle name.[/I] This is the manisfestation of the psyche coming out again and one has to understand that people will do these things, me included. [I]The Gurus declared men and women to be equal, but Punjabi culture is highly patriarchal.[/I] There is currently a vacum for teaching the Dharma in a meaningful way and add to this that women have not really been treated fairly by men all over the world. Sikhs of Punjab have to learn like everyone else. Rome was not built in a Day as the saying goes. I could go on, but i believe that the point has been made. My best regards, Lotus [/QUOTE]
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Is Sikhism Succumbing To Fundamentalism?
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