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Is Salvation Possible In This Life ?
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<blockquote data-quote="arshi" data-source="post: 128960" data-attributes="member: 9479"><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Harbans Singh Ji and Narayanjot Ji heve made some excellent contributions from which I, personally, have gained a lot. A devout lady (hereafter referred to as ‘Kaur’ emailed a question which touches the topic under discussion here. I think this may be of interest to some members on the forum.ffice<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" />ffice" /></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><?"urn:<img src="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/ /></FONT></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana>QUESTION </FONT></B></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana></FONT></B></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma>SSA ji</FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma>After reading the Q & A section on your website I decided to email these questions as I had been pondering over them for a while & after asking others who are more knowledgeable than me, I was still not fully able to comprehend its meaning & interpretation, due to my own limitations.</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma>These are two lines from Kabeer ji's shloks....</FONT></P><P><I><FONT face=Tahoma>1) kabeer aisaa ayk aa<U>Dh</U> jo jeeva<U>t</U> mir<U>t</U>ak ho-ay.</FONT></I></P><P><EM><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT></EM></P><P><B><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Kabeer, rare is such a person, who remains dead while yet alive.</FONT></FONT></B><B><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></B></P><P></P><P><I><FONT face=Tahoma>2) aisay marnay jo marai bahur na marnaa ho-ay. ||29||</FONT></I></P><P><B><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. </FONT></FONT></B></P><P><STRONG><FONT color=#000080 face=Tahoma></FONT></STRONG><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B></P><P><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Kind Regards,</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Kaur</FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT color=#000080 face=Tahoma></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>MY RESPONSE</FONT></FONT></B></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3></FONT></FONT></B></P><P><FONT face=Verdana>Dear Kaur ji</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Verdana>Gurfateh</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Verdana></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Verdana>Very searching questions – one could write a lot but here is a brief reply (due to time constraint) to your questions and hope it will make sense.</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Raavi>ਕਬੀਰ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਐਸਾ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਏਕੁ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਆਧੁ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਜੋ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਜੀਵਤ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਮਿਰਤਕੁ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਹੋਇ</FONT><FONT face=Mangal>॥</FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਨਿਰਭੈ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਹੋਇ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਕੈ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਗੁਨ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਰਵੈ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਜਤ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਪੇਖਉ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਤਤ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਸੋਇ</FONT><FONT face=Mangal>॥</FONT><FONT face=Raavi>੫॥</FONT><FONT face=" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" />{</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> 1364}</span></p><p></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">kabeer aisaa ayk aa<u>Dh</u> jo jeeva<u>t</u> mir<u>t</u>ak ho-ay.(Sri Guru Granth Sahib </span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Kabeer, rare is such a person, who remains dead while yet alive.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The above translation is rather inadequate and also too literal.</span></strong></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">We must view the meaning in the context of the whole <em>pankti</em> and better still also in the context of earlier <em>salokas</em>.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The translation as per my limited understanding: </span></strong></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Kabir, those who are completely detached from worldly comforts and desires (i.e. from <em>maya</em>) are extremely rare. Such individuals are indifferent and oblivious to the joys and sorrows of life; they sing Lord’s praises without fear or reservation and perceive Him (Waheguru) everywhere – where ever one looks He is there.</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਰਤਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਰਤਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਗੁ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮੂਆ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਰਿ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਭੀ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਨਿਆ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕੋਇ</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਐਸੇ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਰਨੇ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਰੈ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਹੁਰਿ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਰਨਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੋਇ</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span>੨੯॥{ਪੰਨਾ1366}</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"></span></span></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">To understand the underpinning meaning of this <em>Salok</em> one must appreciate the concept of <em>jeevan mukta (r</em>edemption or liberation while alive) and the concept of <em>sookhsham sareera</em> (the subtle inner-self – software in terms of computer analogy) and <em>asthool or sthool sareera</em> (the manifest form – body - hardware in terms of computer analogy). <u>Note:</u> T</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">he manifest body is made up of five elements – air water, earth, fire and </span></span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">ether (or space); the subtle body comprises the mind and the intellect, which tend to generate egotism in man.</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The worldly person is always scared of death and, under the influence of <em>maya - </em>constantly lives in fear of death. Such an individual does not know how to overcome the fear of death, neitherhas he learnt the art of ‘dying’ (i.e. that of killing desires - <em>vaashna </em>– freeing himself from the clutches of worldly illusion which is also a creation of God). Kabir says one must eradicate the <em>vaashna</em> (all negative desires and traits) from the <em>sooksham sareera</em> (and thereby killing it) to merge with the Divine Light. </span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Many believe that <em>mukti</em> (liberation) comes after death of the <em>asthool sareera</em></span></span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">.</span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> Nothing can be further from the truth. <strong><em>Mukti </em>must be achieved before mortal death. </strong></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Man maarye </span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏẖaaṯ</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> mar jaa▫ey;</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">bin moo▫ey kaisey har paa▫ey.</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> Sri Guru Granth Sahib 159</span></em></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Only by killing (subduing) the mind <em>(sookhsham sareera)</em> will one’s </span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">wanderings end. Without such a death (of the </span><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">sookhsham sareera</span></em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">)</span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">, how can one find the Lord?</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">This will only come with the Guru’s Grace and only after we have shed our ego. If we don’t then the consequences are frightening:</span></span></strong></p><p></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">jam jam marai marai fir jammai; bahu</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> sajaaey peyaa </span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏ</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">es lammai. </span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Sri Guru Granth Sahib 1020 </span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You shall be born and born again, and die repeatedly (i.e. the death of the <em>asthool sarira</em>), only to be reincarnated again. Without erasing ego and killing the <em>sookhsham sareera </em>you shall undergo (suffer) indefinite bouts of life and death.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">We must submit our mind to the Guru and entrust ourselves totally in his hands – </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਨਿ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਤੈ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਗੁ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਤੁ</span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">“</span></span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">munn jee<u>t</u>ai jag jee<u>t</u></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">”. Lord’s mercy will follow in time although there is no way we can assume or predict it.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">safal safal b</span></span></em><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ẖ</span></span></em><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">aee safal jaa</span></span></em><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span></em><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">raa; </span></span></em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">aava</span><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṇ</span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> jaa</span><u><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṇ</span></u><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> rahey miley saa</span><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ḏẖ</span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">aa. </span><em><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Sri Guru Granth Sahib </span></span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">687</span></em></p><p> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">My spiritual journey (pilgrimage) has borne fruit and has been concluded successfully and m</span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">y cycle of comings and goings <em>(aavan jaan)</em> has ended, since I met the holy one (Sant, Guru).</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Hope this helps and God bless.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">‘Arshi’</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">In the context of ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ in Sikhism (also touched on in this thread) may I add: </span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">The Five <em>Khands</em> (Realms) are the five spiritual stages and our <em>sookhsham saraera</em> (subtle body) must go through the first four before merging into the Universal Light (Nirankar) which resides in the <em>Sach Khand <strong>(</strong></em></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Japji Sahib: Pauris 34).</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">When an individual ‘dies’, it is really the death of the manifest body <em>(Asthool sareera)</em>, the subtle body (<em>sookhsham sareera)</em> lives on carrying with it an imprint of <em>karmas</em> and desires of this life and previous existences. Such a <em>jeeva</em> will remain in the cycle of life and death (to some extent the Sikh concept of ‘hell’).</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">On the other hand, rare souls (one in millions/billions perhaps) are able to negotiate the various spiritual stages <em>(Khands)</em> successfully and become <em>jeevan muktas</em> (liberated while also mortally alive). They would have purified themselves of the effects of the five negative traits which trouble us all our lives. Such a soul has achieved <em>sehaj avastha</em> and resides in a heavenly state of mind body and soul – the real ‘heaven’.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Are there <strong>separate and autonomous</strong> domains/planets of heaven and hell? Only those who have elevated themselves up the ladder of <em>Khand</em>s can answer that question.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">A seeker’s ultimate goal is to reach the door of <strong>Sach Khand</strong> and then await the Param Atma’s Grace (Call) for merger. </span><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Sach Khand</span></em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> is the ultimate spiritual plain. There is nothing else beyond this. There is no limit to the expanse and reach of the Realm of Truth – in fact it encompasses the entire creation of God including the other four realms. <strong>Sach Khand is Waheguru and Waheguru is Sach Khand:</strong></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">This is how I interpret Japji Sahib (Pauri 37)</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">“The Formless Lord resides in <em>Sach Khand</em> (Realm of Truth). He creates and then watches over His creation with love and compassion. </span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The soul is completely absorbed in the Universal Soul. With His Grace the <em>jeeva</em> can see across the door to where only the Lord is seen – nothing else. The <em>jeeva’s</em> </span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">spiritual consciousness <em>(</em></span>ffice:smarttags" /><?xml::<img src="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/ /><st1:place w:st=" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><st1:City w:st="on"><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">surat</span></em><em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">, dhyan)</span></em><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> is constantly engaged in Lord’s praise. With God’s Grace he is able to see numerous </span><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">planets, solar systems and galaxies. These scenes cannot be expressed as there is no limit to His creations. By His command are created various worlds and forms of life. He rejoices watching over these with His merciful Grace. <strong>Nanak says it is impossible to describe these experiences i.e. these can be felt but not expressed.”</strong> </span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The above are my thoughts based on my limited understanding of Gurbani and some enlightened members on the forum may not agree with all I have written. For that may I apologise in advance as my spiritual level is that of a mere beginner.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">With best wishes and chardi kala</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="arshi, post: 128960, member: 9479"] [FONT=Verdana]Harbans Singh Ji and Narayanjot Ji heve made some excellent contributions from which I, personally, have gained a lot. A devout lady (hereafter referred to as ‘Kaur’ emailed a question which touches the topic under discussion here. I think this may be of interest to some members on the forum.ffice:office" />[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]<?"urn:[IMG]http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/ /></FONT></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana>QUESTION </FONT></B></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana></FONT></B></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma>SSA ji</FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma>After reading the Q & A section on your website I decided to email these questions as I had been pondering over them for a while & after asking others who are more knowledgeable than me, I was still not fully able to comprehend its meaning & interpretation, due to my own limitations.</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Tahoma>These are two lines from Kabeer ji's shloks....</FONT></P><P><I><FONT face=Tahoma>1) kabeer aisaa ayk aa<U>Dh</U> jo jeeva<U>t</U> mir<U>t</U>ak ho-ay.</FONT></I></P><P><EM><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT></EM></P><P><B><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Kabeer, rare is such a person, who remains dead while yet alive.</FONT></FONT></B><B><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></B></P><P></P><P><I><FONT face=Tahoma>2) aisay marnay jo marai bahur na marnaa ho-ay. ||29||</FONT></I></P><P><B><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. </FONT></FONT></B></P><P><STRONG><FONT color=#000080 face=Tahoma></FONT></STRONG><B><FONT face=Arial></FONT></B></P><P><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Kind Regards,</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><FONT color=navy><FONT face=Tahoma>Kaur</FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT color=#000080 face=Tahoma></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>MY RESPONSE</FONT></FONT></B></P><P><B><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3></FONT></FONT></B></P><P><FONT face=Verdana>Dear Kaur ji</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Verdana>Gurfateh</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Verdana></FONT></P><P><FONT face=Verdana>Very searching questions – one could write a lot but here is a brief reply (due to time constraint) to your questions and hope it will make sense.</FONT></P><P><FONT face=Raavi>ਕਬੀਰ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਐਸਾ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਏਕੁ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਆਧੁ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਜੋ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਜੀਵਤ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਮਿਰਤਕੁ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਹੋਇ</FONT><FONT face=Mangal>॥</FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਨਿਰਭੈ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਹੋਇ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਕੈ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਗੁਨ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਰਵੈ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਜਤ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਪੇਖਉ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਤਤ </FONT><FONT face=Raavi>ਸੋਇ</FONT><FONT face=Mangal>॥</FONT><FONT face=Raavi>੫॥</FONT><FONT face=[/IMG]{[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman] 1364}[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [I][FONT=Verdana]kabeer aisaa ayk aa[U]Dh[/U] jo jeeva[U]t[/U] mir[U]t[/U]ak ho-ay.(Sri Guru Granth Sahib [/FONT][/I] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Kabeer, rare is such a person, who remains dead while yet alive.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [B][FONT=Verdana]The above translation is rather inadequate and also too literal.[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]We must view the meaning in the context of the whole [I]pankti[/I] and better still also in the context of earlier [I]salokas[/I].[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [B][FONT=Verdana]The translation as per my limited understanding: [/FONT][/B] [FONT=Verdana]Kabir, those who are completely detached from worldly comforts and desires (i.e. from [I]maya[/I]) are extremely rare. Such individuals are indifferent and oblivious to the joys and sorrows of life; they sing Lord’s praises without fear or reservation and perceive Him (Waheguru) everywhere – where ever one looks He is there.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][FONT=Raavi][SIZE=2][FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਰਤਾ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਰਤਾ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜਗੁ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮੂਆ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਰਿ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਭੀ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਨ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਨਿਆ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਕੋਇ[/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਐਸੇ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਰਨੇ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਰੈ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਬਹੁਰਿ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਨ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਮਰਨਾ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਹੋਇ[/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT]੨੯॥{ਪੰਨਾ1366}[/SIZE] [B][/B] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Raavi][/FONT] [B][FONT=Verdana]To understand the underpinning meaning of this [I]Salok[/I] one must appreciate the concept of [I]jeevan mukta (r[/I]edemption or liberation while alive) and the concept of [I]sookhsham sareera[/I] (the subtle inner-self – software in terms of computer analogy) and [I]asthool or sthool sareera[/I] (the manifest form – body - hardware in terms of computer analogy). [U]Note:[/U] T[/FONT][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]he manifest body is made up of five elements – air water, earth, fire and [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]ether (or space); the subtle body comprises the mind and the intellect, which tend to generate egotism in man.[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/B] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]The worldly person is always scared of death and, under the influence of [I]maya - [/I]constantly lives in fear of death. Such an individual does not know how to overcome the fear of death, neitherhas he learnt the art of ‘dying’ (i.e. that of killing desires - [I]vaashna [/I]– freeing himself from the clutches of worldly illusion which is also a creation of God). Kabir says one must eradicate the [I]vaashna[/I] (all negative desires and traits) from the [I]sooksham sareera[/I] (and thereby killing it) to merge with the Divine Light. [/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Many believe that [I]mukti[/I] (liberation) comes after death of the [I]asthool sareera[/I][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Verdana].[/FONT][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] Nothing can be further from the truth. [B][I]Mukti [/I]must be achieved before mortal death. [/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][B][/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [I][FONT=Verdana]Man maarye [/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Tahoma]ḏẖaaṯ[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana] mar jaa▫ey;[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana]bin moo▫ey kaisey har paa▫ey.[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana] Sri Guru Granth Sahib 159[/FONT][/I] [FONT=Verdana]Only by killing (subduing) the mind [I](sookhsham sareera)[/I] will one’s [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]wanderings end. Without such a death (of the [/FONT][I][FONT=Verdana]sookhsham sareera[/FONT][/I][FONT=Verdana])[/FONT][FONT=Verdana], how can one find the Lord?[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]This will only come with the Guru’s Grace and only after we have shed our ego. If we don’t then the consequences are frightening:[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [I][FONT=Verdana]jam jam marai marai fir jammai; bahu[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana] sajaaey peyaa [/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Tahoma]ḏ[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana]es lammai. [/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana]Sri Guru Granth Sahib 1020 [/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/I] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]You shall be born and born again, and die repeatedly (i.e. the death of the [I]asthool sarira[/I]), only to be reincarnated again. Without erasing ego and killing the [I]sookhsham sareera [/I]you shall undergo (suffer) indefinite bouts of life and death.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]We must submit our mind to the Guru and entrust ourselves totally in his hands – [/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Raavi]ਮਨਿ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਤੈ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜਗੁ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਤੁ[/FONT][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]“[/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Verdana]munn jee[U]t[/U]ai jag jee[U]t[/U][/FONT][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]”. Lord’s mercy will follow in time although there is no way we can assume or predict it.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [B][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B] [I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]safal safal b[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ẖ[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]aee safal jaa[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]raa; [/FONT][/COLOR][/I][FONT=Verdana]aava[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma]ṇ[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] jaa[/FONT][U][FONT=Tahoma]ṇ[/FONT][/U][FONT=Verdana] rahey miley saa[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma]ḏẖ[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]aa. [/FONT][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Sri Guru Granth Sahib [/FONT][/COLOR][/I][I][FONT=Verdana]687[/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/I] [FONT=Verdana]My spiritual journey (pilgrimage) has borne fruit and has been concluded successfully and m[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]y cycle of comings and goings [I](aavan jaan)[/I] has ended, since I met the holy one (Sant, Guru).[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Hope this helps and God bless.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]‘Arshi’[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]In the context of ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ in Sikhism (also touched on in this thread) may I add: [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial]The Five [I]Khands[/I] (Realms) are the five spiritual stages and our [I]sookhsham saraera[/I] (subtle body) must go through the first four before merging into the Universal Light (Nirankar) which resides in the [I]Sach Khand [B]([/B][/I][/FONT][B][FONT=Verdana]Japji Sahib: Pauris 34).[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]When an individual ‘dies’, it is really the death of the manifest body [I](Asthool sareera)[/I], the subtle body ([I]sookhsham sareera)[/I] lives on carrying with it an imprint of [I]karmas[/I] and desires of this life and previous existences. Such a [I]jeeva[/I] will remain in the cycle of life and death (to some extent the Sikh concept of ‘hell’).[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]On the other hand, rare souls (one in millions/billions perhaps) are able to negotiate the various spiritual stages [I](Khands)[/I] successfully and become [I]jeevan muktas[/I] (liberated while also mortally alive). They would have purified themselves of the effects of the five negative traits which trouble us all our lives. Such a soul has achieved [I]sehaj avastha[/I] and resides in a heavenly state of mind body and soul – the real ‘heaven’.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Are there [B]separate and autonomous[/B] domains/planets of heaven and hell? Only those who have elevated themselves up the ladder of [I]Khand[/I]s can answer that question.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]A seeker’s ultimate goal is to reach the door of [B]Sach Khand[/B] and then await the Param Atma’s Grace (Call) for merger. [/FONT][I][FONT=Verdana]Sach Khand[/FONT][/I][FONT=Verdana] is the ultimate spiritual plain. There is nothing else beyond this. There is no limit to the expanse and reach of the Realm of Truth – in fact it encompasses the entire creation of God including the other four realms. [B]Sach Khand is Waheguru and Waheguru is Sach Khand:[/B][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][B][/B][/FONT] [B][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/B] [FONT=Verdana]This is how I interpret Japji Sahib (Pauri 37)[/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]“The Formless Lord resides in [I]Sach Khand[/I] (Realm of Truth). He creates and then watches over His creation with love and compassion. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]The soul is completely absorbed in the Universal Soul. With His Grace the [I]jeeva[/I] can see across the door to where only the Lord is seen – nothing else. The [I]jeeva’s[/I] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]spiritual consciousness [I]([/I][/FONT]ffice:smarttags" /><?xml::[IMG]http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/ /><st1:place w:st=[/IMG]<st1:City w:st="on">[I][FONT=Verdana]surat[/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Verdana], dhyan)[/FONT][/I][FONT=Verdana] is constantly engaged in Lord’s praise. With God’s Grace he is able to see numerous [/FONT][FONT=Verdana]planets, solar systems and galaxies. These scenes cannot be expressed as there is no limit to His creations. By His command are created various worlds and forms of life. He rejoices watching over these with His merciful Grace. [B]Nanak says it is impossible to describe these experiences i.e. these can be felt but not expressed.”[/B] [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][B][/B][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]The above are my thoughts based on my limited understanding of Gurbani and some enlightened members on the forum may not agree with all I have written. For that may I apologise in advance as my spiritual level is that of a mere beginner.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]With best wishes and chardi kala[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’[/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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