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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Is Bhatt Bani Not Guru?
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 74892" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>Harjas Kaur Khalsa ji</p><p> <span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: Red">*************************** </span><span style="color: Red"><em>***************</em></span><em>It will be my pleasure to discuss with you any thing related with Gurbani or Dasam Granth. <span style="color: Red">*************** </span>In another thread <span style="color: Red">*****************************I</span> am not in habit of judging people and I resent that. strongly.</em></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Before I analyze your views in context of this thread, let me inform you that I have very poor marks for Kalaafgana, Ghaga, joginder Singh Spokesman etc since I strongly feel that their show is all about money making. If any thing I say is contrary to your views, *<span style="color: Red">******************************</span></span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">The two shabad you have quoted are not new, we( all those who agree with me or disagree with me) have been giving such references to justify our views. Only Guru ji knows who is right or who is not. Doubtless Satguru Sahiban witnessed hypocrisy in their times. Stress is on understanding Gurubani. Merely bowing or seeing Guru is questioned by Satguru himself</span></em></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੩ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨੋ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਜੇਤਾ ਜਗਤੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਡਿਠੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> {</span></span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span></span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">594}</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">( means in essence: all the people want to see Satguru but merely seeing(meeting) Satguru will not help in liberation( Why) because just by doing ritual of meeting or seeing doe not help in eliminating ego and, true love for the creator doesn’t blossom within the heart)</span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">So by just reciting Gurbani cannot be helpful provided Gurumat is not followed in its <strong>totality.</strong></span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">In Guru Granth Sahib ji, dominating instruction by Guru ji is to have him in heart. For that, one’s heart should be free of ego, anger greed, lust . No special day or season is required as it is very common in Hinduism, in other words, always His memory should be in heart so that our mind is kept on track.</span></em></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਨਕ ਰੁਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੀ ਸਾਈ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਕੇਹੀ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੪</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> {</span></span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span></span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">1254}</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="color: black">In essence When HE is heart the season is wonderful, without Him, no season is good)</span></span></span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Without cleaning mind, no practice is accepted by Satguru</span></em></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਨਿ ਮੈਲੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> (39)</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">( in essence meaning: if the mind is corrupt with primal forces and duality, His simran is not possible)</span></span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">It is just a battle within, outside appearance is of no use if that battle with in is lost to primal forces. </span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">In this context all religiously accepted things were disregarded by Guru Nanak ji</span></em></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨ</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'"> (Japji)</span></span></span></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">All becomes useless if mind is corrupt, </span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: Red">***************************</span>as per Guru Hukm we try to dispel our doubts. I don’t know if you are aware of Bhai Mani Singh ji Sahib who wrote “Gurbani parbodh sagar” He,also makes mistakes while interpreting Gurbani. If we do not share with each other how we shall learn? Certainly you will call it hair splitting but for me it is very important to see if the meaning given by the interpreter is really conveys the message of Guru. I<span style="color: Red">******************************** </span>Here is just an example how wonderful Gyani Bhai Mani Singh ji can make mistake and why we as Sikhs should be careful.</span></em></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੨ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥ </span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ </span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੧</span><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> {</span></span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੰਨਾ </span></span><span style="color: purple"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">139}</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Here is Gyani ji’s interpretation on page 82-83”Gurbani Parvodh”</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">“ That Waheguru is without eyes but being observer watches all. He hasn’t any ears but he listens to every one. He is without feet but in others’ feet His walking power is present. He is without hands but every ones hands’ power of holding is His. He is without tongue but in others languages, His power is present. This way one who understands His ordinance and by being indifference to outside world, can meet Him”</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">This interpretation is unacceptable, it doesn’t convey Guru message, a Sikh should be alert about that. Now let’s read Dr. Sahib Singh’s interpretation, here it is</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">If one sees without eyes( meaning without looking at others things etc), without ears listens( means do not heed attention to others back biting etc) if without feet walks( means stops going to bad places or to do wrong), without hands one works( doesn’t use hands to snatch from others rights etc) without tongue one speaks( who doesn’t use tongue to slander other etc) this is the way to live without ego (living while dead means living without ago). So this way one understands His ordinance. In simple words all efforts should be put to mold our mind to live without ego and by being pure)</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Gyani Mani Singh ji is not just like me who just happen to be on this site, he has a good credit of influencing people and directing people to Sikhi. Here Gyani ji is dead wrong. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">On this site we have been discussing about interpretation of Gurbani, people here on this site have different views about it, I respect that. Only on one point I do give stress though, if any interpretation goes against Guru Sahib’s Principles, it should not be accepted. If that is strong language to swallow, I won’t say that but will keep saying that it doesn’t convey the message Guru ji intends to do as I have quoted one example above, the interpretation must be questioned. This kind of misinterpretation is a common place practice in Sikhs circles. When I see I try to express my concerns. That is all. <span style="color: Red">*******************</span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 74892, member: 5889"] Harjas Kaur Khalsa ji [FONT=Arial][COLOR=Red]*************************** [/COLOR][COLOR=Red][I]***************[/I][/COLOR][I]It will be my pleasure to discuss with you any thing related with Gurbani or Dasam Granth. [COLOR=Red]*************** [/COLOR]In another thread [COLOR=Red]*****************************I[/COLOR] am not in habit of judging people and I resent that. strongly.[/I][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]Before I analyze your views in context of this thread, let me inform you that I have very poor marks for Kalaafgana, Ghaga, joginder Singh Spokesman etc since I strongly feel that their show is all about money making. If any thing I say is contrary to your views, *[COLOR=Red]******************************[/COLOR][/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Arial]The two shabad you have quoted are not new, we( all those who agree with me or disagree with me) have been giving such references to justify our views. Only Guru ji knows who is right or who is not. Doubtless Satguru Sahiban witnessed hypocrisy in their times. Stress is on understanding Gurubani. Merely bowing or seeing Guru is questioned by Satguru himself[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=3][FONT=Raavi]ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੩ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨੋ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਵੇਖਦਾ ਜੇਤਾ ਜਗਤੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਡਿਠੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜਿਚਰੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਕਰੇ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][COLOR=purple][FONT=Times New Roman] {[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=purple][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=purple][FONT=Times New Roman]594}[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]( means in essence: all the people want to see Satguru but merely seeing(meeting) Satguru will not help in liberation( Why) because just by doing ritual of meeting or seeing doe not help in eliminating ego and, true love for the creator doesn’t blossom within the heart)[/FONT][/SIZE] [I][FONT=Arial]So by just reciting Gurbani cannot be helpful provided Gurumat is not followed in its [B]totality.[/B][/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Arial]In Guru Granth Sahib ji, dominating instruction by Guru ji is to have him in heart. For that, one’s heart should be free of ego, anger greed, lust . No special day or season is required as it is very common in Hinduism, in other words, always His memory should be in heart so that our mind is kept on track.[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=3][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਨਕ ਰੁਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੀ ਸਾਈ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਰੁਤਿ ਕੇਹੀ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]੪[/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][COLOR=purple][FONT=Times New Roman] {[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=purple][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=purple][FONT=Times New Roman]1254}[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][FONT=Arial][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]In essence When HE is heart the season is wonderful, without Him, no season is good)[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE] [I][FONT=Arial]Without cleaning mind, no practice is accepted by Satguru[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=3][FONT=Raavi]ਮਨਿ ਮੈਲੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ[/FONT][FONT=Raavi][FONT=Times New Roman] (39)[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Raavi][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]( in essence meaning: if the mind is corrupt with primal forces and duality, His simran is not possible)[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [I][FONT=Arial]It is just a battle within, outside appearance is of no use if that battle with in is lost to primal forces. [/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Arial]In this context all religiously accepted things were disregarded by Guru Nanak ji[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=3][FONT=Raavi]ਤੀਰਥੁ ਤਪੁ ਦਇਆ ਦਤੁ ਦਾਨੁ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜੇ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ਤਿਲ ਕਾ ਮਾਨ[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Raavi] (Japji)[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE] [I][FONT=Arial]All becomes useless if mind is corrupt, [/FONT][/I] [I][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Red]***************************[/COLOR]as per Guru Hukm we try to dispel our doubts. I don’t know if you are aware of Bhai Mani Singh ji Sahib who wrote “Gurbani parbodh sagar” He,also makes mistakes while interpreting Gurbani. If we do not share with each other how we shall learn? Certainly you will call it hair splitting but for me it is very important to see if the meaning given by the interpreter is really conveys the message of Guru. I[COLOR=Red]******************************** [/COLOR]Here is just an example how wonderful Gyani Bhai Mani Singh ji can make mistake and why we as Sikhs should be careful.[/FONT][/I] [SIZE=3][FONT=Raavi]ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੨ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਅਖੀ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਵੇਖਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਕੰਨਾ ਸੁਨਣਾ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਪੈਰਾ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਚਲਣਾ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਥਾ ਕਰਣਾ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਜੀਭੈ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਇਉ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਣਾ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥ [/FONT][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਕੈ ਤਉ ਖਸਮੈ ਮਿਲਣਾ [/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][FONT=Raavi]੧[/FONT][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][COLOR=purple][FONT=Times New Roman] {[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=purple][FONT=Raavi]ਪੰਨਾ [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=purple][FONT=Times New Roman]139}[/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Here is Gyani ji’s interpretation on page 82-83”Gurbani Parvodh”[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]“ That Waheguru is without eyes but being observer watches all. He hasn’t any ears but he listens to every one. He is without feet but in others’ feet His walking power is present. He is without hands but every ones hands’ power of holding is His. He is without tongue but in others languages, His power is present. This way one who understands His ordinance and by being indifference to outside world, can meet Him”[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This interpretation is unacceptable, it doesn’t convey Guru message, a Sikh should be alert about that. Now let’s read Dr. Sahib Singh’s interpretation, here it is[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]If one sees without eyes( meaning without looking at others things etc), without ears listens( means do not heed attention to others back biting etc) if without feet walks( means stops going to bad places or to do wrong), without hands one works( doesn’t use hands to snatch from others rights etc) without tongue one speaks( who doesn’t use tongue to slander other etc) this is the way to live without ego (living while dead means living without ago). So this way one understands His ordinance. In simple words all efforts should be put to mold our mind to live without ego and by being pure)[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Gyani Mani Singh ji is not just like me who just happen to be on this site, he has a good credit of influencing people and directing people to Sikhi. Here Gyani ji is dead wrong. [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]On this site we have been discussing about interpretation of Gurbani, people here on this site have different views about it, I respect that. Only on one point I do give stress though, if any interpretation goes against Guru Sahib’s Principles, it should not be accepted. If that is strong language to swallow, I won’t say that but will keep saying that it doesn’t convey the message Guru ji intends to do as I have quoted one example above, the interpretation must be questioned. This kind of misinterpretation is a common place practice in Sikhs circles. When I see I try to express my concerns. That is all. [COLOR=Red]*******************[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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Is Bhatt Bani Not Guru?
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