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Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
God's Will And The Law Of Karma
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<blockquote data-quote="pk70" data-source="post: 90645" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p><strong>Let’s take an example of a Drama, directed by a genius Director. If all players act totally as per director’s will, drama is played well. The actors who play well give in to Directors instructions and orders leaving their own thinking aside. Who does make the show bad? It is disobeying the Director. We are just players, if we play in His ordinance, nothing can affect us. When we go against it we suffer tremendously and irony is this that the course of His Ordinance goes on intact. Next question, When He is the doer, how can we act/play then? He has blessed all with a “[/FONT]</strong><strong>surat[/FONT]</strong><strong>”, all actors act as per “[/FONT]</strong><strong>surat[/FONT]</strong><strong>”. In His ordinance, that “[/FONT]</strong><strong>surat[/FONT]</strong><strong>” plays both role positive ones and negative ones (quote pk70)[/FONT]</strong></p><p> </p><p> In the above example the director gives a script to the actor which depicts his will and he explains the way the actor must act and tell him about his limits.[/FONT]</p><p>But God in no way do so we are free to do whatever we want and God never gives us any clue or something like that which we may call as a "script" of the drama of life.[/FONT]</p><p>and plz explain me what exactly do u mean by "[/FONT]surat[/FONT]"(quote Saint SoldierJi)[/FONT]</p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">First of all with all due respect I have to say that you have failed to understand implied idea beyond “director’s example” Director goes beyond script, many times he/she surpasses the writer(if it is not written by him/her) Like a mother says to the child” only those swim across who has better boats” then the child replies” Mom we are not in the river, we are far away from the river or ocean why we need a batter boat” You see, one can keep splitting hair just for the sake of it. In this example, only his direction and players' actions were taken to comprehend the will of the director about the delivery of the acts. Besides,the Lord being the writer of Life-script, He is also a director, He instructs us to act as per His ordinance, when as per given </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Surat</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">, mortal accepts as it comes, misery and other factors that tear apart the soul leave no effect. Reaction contrary to it as per given </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Surat</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"> take away all the peace. That is the point, soul seeks religion.</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Your second issue is about” </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Surat</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">”, its meanings with vast application are</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">“ to have awareness, to have attention to, to have virtuous consciousness or contrary to it” it cannot be limited to one word as it is used.</span></strong></p><p> <strong>He also sends some blessed ones with enlightening “[/FONT]</strong><strong>surat[/FONT]</strong><strong>” to put spiritual colors in the drama being played on this world stage. Those Seers try to affect that [/FONT]</strong><strong>surat[/FONT]</strong><strong> of others to take it towards the Lord also as per His will(pk70[/FONT]</strong><strong>)[/FONT]</strong></p><p> now here is a question again in [/FONT]ur[/FONT] answer what decides that who will be a saint and who a thief isnt it our karmas of previous births or is it still the will of Lord?</p><p>why are some chosen one made enlightened and rest remain fools again from baba <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Nanak</a>--</p><p>All bounties come from the lord </p><p>None can expect them from him,</p><p>as a matter of right.</p><p>Some even awaken do not get them,</p><p>while others He wakes out of sleep and blesses.</p><p>--<span style="color: #333333"><a href="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Guru Nanak</a></span> sahib/siri,83;1384 </p><p><a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Guru</a> sahib says its the will of God but shouldnt it be the karmas of previous births?(quate Saint soldierji)[/FONT]</p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">It is very strange; you are expressing your own opinion about how and why a soul should be a saint. As expressed in the Guru bachan in which the word” </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">surat</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">” is used, actions are displayed as per given </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Surat</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">, in other Guru Vaak( </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੇਹੀ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: #ab5555"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਰਤ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਿ ਤੇਹਾ ਤਿਨ ਰਾਹੁ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black">Jehī sura</span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯṯ</span></span><span style="color: black">ehā </span></strong><strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">ṯ</span></span><span style="color: black">in rāhu.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: black">As is their awareness, so is their way.</span></strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਮਃ</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: green"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'">1</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"> ) it is expressed how these actions continuously leave effect on the soul. </span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪੁੰਨੀ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਪੀ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਖਣੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਹਿ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A3%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਰਣਾ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲਿਖਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਲੈ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਹੁ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬੀਜਿ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਪੇ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੀ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਖਾਹੁ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%95" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨਾਨਕ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਹੁਕਮੀ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਆਵਹੁ</span> </a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਹੁ</span> </a></span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">੨੦</span></span></strong><strong><span style="color: maroon"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Punnī pāpī ākẖaṇ nāhi.</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Kar kar karṇā likẖ lai jāhu.</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Āpe bīj āpe hī kẖāhu.</span> </strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Nānak hukmī āvhu jāhu. ||20||</span> </strong></p><p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">By mere words of mouth (statements) a man becomes not virtuous or vicious.</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">The often repeated actions are engraved on the heart.</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Man himself sows and himself reaps (he reaps what he sows).</span></span> </strong><strong><span style="color: navy"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">By God's Order, O <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak/" target="_blank">Nanak</a>! man comes and goes. </span></span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">There is not a single Guru Vak in Gurbani that states that saints and Seers come to teach in this world because of their previous karama. I hope you will be aware of Karma theory in Hinduism and Sikhism is different basically with one vital point” in Sikhism, Karama can be changed but in Hinduism, no it cannot be, if you are born low you are low forever, but Sikhism says that even if one is born in low caste, he/she can reach to the highest spiritual goal. Guru ji also says ( in Baramaha M-1) we are here because of His grace not the Karama</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Lets just look at your own above quote of Guru Nanak which actually defines the full control of the Lord. Every day, many Sikhs listen to Guru Shabadas that inspire to go only for virtuous way and live in Lord’s love and reject/ignore the rest as perishable because that is useless in Lord’s presence. How many are there who actually go for that? Not many, most of them, read, sing and enjoy the beauty of it but return to their activities like business as usual. Isn’t it? that is the reason Guru ji says to some He wakes up and there are others who are very close to the truth but never get it.</span></strong></p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Then there are others who just have no such practices but once they encounter “soul with virtuous </span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">surat</span></strong><strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">” they change totally like Bhagat Dhanna ji, Bhai Ghanyaa Ji . As I have given a quote of Guru Nanak about inexpressible Hukam, it is not that simple to explain because it prevails in the whole system some of which we see and some is still unseen by us. You are ignoring that factor while structuring your questions</span></strong></p><p> <strong>Even for individual acts, one is just working as He wills(pk70)</strong></p><p> The law of <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Karma</a> fails here?(saint Soldier Ji)[/FONT]</p><p> <strong>No, it isn’t, karma is also a part of His will. It is a good question though. Let’s ponder over it in detail. The [/FONT]Surat[/FONT] is given, actions start as per [/FONT]Surat[/FONT], those actions are individual because of the given [/FONT]surat[/FONT]; however, never forget, they are due to the [/FONT]Surat[/FONT], and [/FONT]Surat[/FONT] is given by the Lord, that is why actions by others become His will. Are you with me?[/FONT]</strong></p><p> <strong>Just as an employee having his own brains just work for the employer, same way one represents and works for Him as an employee represents the employer.(pk70) </strong></p><p> The employer only designates us a rank and orders us to work it is we who using our skills and guts work and it is our will as to work hard or not.this is our <a href="http://www.sikhism.us/" target="_blank">Karma</a> isnt it?(saint Soldier Ji)[/FONT]</p><p> </p><p> <strong><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">We represent the infinite Employer, the skills we use are also His gifts( as regular employer provides us some stuff to perform) and the will remains employers, even before our regular employer, some times our own will carries no weight( we suggest and are rejected and we start doing as we were doing before our suggestion). You are forgetting Guru Ji’s answer here. The problem is that we question His ordinance partially instead of understanding its dominance in seen and beyond seen existence, another reason, the doubts pop up.</span></strong></p><p> <strong>In totality all what happens and done by people having different </strong><strong>surat</strong><strong>, fall in His ordinance. Understanding the whole system reduces the doubts. If it is partially questioned, it clouds the truth.(pk70)</strong></p><p> Falsehood exhausts itself .</p><p>Truth alone prevails ultimately.</p><p><a href="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/" target="_blank">Guru Nanak</a> pita/Ramkali,953( Saint Soldier Ji)</p><p>[/FONT]<strong>What is falsehood in the comments above that triggered this quote of Gurbani? I couldn’t understand, forgive me, please elaborate it.</strong></p><p> </p><p> [/FONT]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pk70, post: 90645, member: 5889"] [B]Let’s take an example of a Drama, directed by a genius Director. If all players act totally as per director’s will, drama is played well. The actors who play well give in to Directors instructions and orders leaving their own thinking aside. Who does make the show bad? It is disobeying the Director. We are just players, if we play in His ordinance, nothing can affect us. When we go against it we suffer tremendously and irony is this that the course of His Ordinance goes on intact. Next question, When He is the doer, how can we act/play then? He has blessed all with a “[/FONT][/B][B]surat[/FONT][/B][B]”, all actors act as per “[/FONT][/B][B]surat[/FONT][/B][B]”. In His ordinance, that “[/FONT][/B][B]surat[/FONT][/B][B]” plays both role positive ones and negative ones (quote pk70)[/FONT][/B] In the above example the director gives a script to the actor which depicts his will and he explains the way the actor must act and tell him about his limits.[/FONT] But God in no way do so we are free to do whatever we want and God never gives us any clue or something like that which we may call as a "script" of the drama of life.[/FONT] and plz explain me what exactly do u mean by "[/FONT]surat[/FONT]"(quote Saint SoldierJi)[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]First of all with all due respect I have to say that you have failed to understand implied idea beyond “director’s example” Director goes beyond script, many times he/she surpasses the writer(if it is not written by him/her) Like a mother says to the child” only those swim across who has better boats” then the child replies” Mom we are not in the river, we are far away from the river or ocean why we need a batter boat” You see, one can keep splitting hair just for the sake of it. In this example, only his direction and players' actions were taken to comprehend the will of the director about the delivery of the acts. Besides,the Lord being the writer of Life-script, He is also a director, He instructs us to act as per His ordinance, when as per given [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Surat[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial], mortal accepts as it comes, misery and other factors that tear apart the soul leave no effect. Reaction contrary to it as per given [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Surat[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial] take away all the peace. That is the point, soul seeks religion.[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]Your second issue is about” [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Surat[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]”, its meanings with vast application are[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]“ to have awareness, to have attention to, to have virtuous consciousness or contrary to it” it cannot be limited to one word as it is used.[/FONT][/B] [B]He also sends some blessed ones with enlightening “[/FONT][/B][B]surat[/FONT][/B][B]” to put spiritual colors in the drama being played on this world stage. Those Seers try to affect that [/FONT][/B][B]surat[/FONT][/B][B] of others to take it towards the Lord also as per His will(pk70[/FONT][/B][B])[/FONT][/B] now here is a question again in [/FONT]ur[/FONT] answer what decides that who will be a saint and who a thief isnt it our karmas of previous births or is it still the will of Lord? why are some chosen one made enlightened and rest remain fools again from baba [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/"]Nanak[/URL]-- All bounties come from the lord None can expect them from him, as a matter of right. Some even awaken do not get them, while others He wakes out of sleep and blesses. --[COLOR=#333333][URL="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/"]Guru Nanak[/URL][/COLOR] sahib/siri,83;1384 [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Guru[/URL] sahib says its the will of God but shouldnt it be the karmas of previous births?(quate Saint soldierji)[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]It is very strange; you are expressing your own opinion about how and why a soul should be a saint. As expressed in the Guru bachan in which the word” [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]surat[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]” is used, actions are displayed as per given [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]Surat[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial], in other Guru Vaak( [/FONT][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜੇਹੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=#ab5555][FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਰਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਿ ਤੇਹਾ ਤਿਨ ਰਾਹੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Jehī sura[/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]ehā [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]ṯ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black]in rāhu.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black]As is their awareness, so is their way.[/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=Raavi]ਮਃ[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=green][FONT=AnmolUniPr]1[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][FONT=Arial] ) it is expressed how these actions continuously leave effect on the soul. [/FONT][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%81%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%80"][FONT=Raavi]ਪੁੰਨੀ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%80"][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਪੀ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਖਣੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਹਿ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A3%E0%A8%BE"][FONT=Raavi]ਕਰਣਾ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਲਿਖਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B2%E0%A9%88"][FONT=Raavi]ਲੈ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਹੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AC%E0%A9%80%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BF"][FONT=Raavi]ਬੀਜਿ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%87"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਪੇ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%80"][FONT=Raavi]ਹੀ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%96%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਖਾਹੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=AnmolUniPr][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%95"][FONT=Raavi]ਨਾਨਕ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%AE%E0%A9%80"][FONT=Raavi]ਹੁਕਮੀ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਆਵਹੁ[/FONT] [/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%81"][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਹੁ[/FONT] [/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Raavi]੨੦[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR=maroon][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Punnī pāpī ākẖaṇ nāhi.[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Kar kar karṇā likẖ lai jāhu.[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Āpe bīj āpe hī kẖāhu.[/FONT] [/B][B][FONT=Tahoma]Nānak hukmī āvhu jāhu. ||20||[/FONT] [/B][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]By mere words of mouth (statements) a man becomes not virtuous or vicious.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]The often repeated actions are engraved on the heart.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]Man himself sows and himself reaps (he reaps what he sows).[/FONT][/COLOR] [/B][B][COLOR=navy][FONT=Tahoma]By God's Order, O [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak/"]Nanak[/URL]! man comes and goes. [/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]There is not a single Guru Vak in Gurbani that states that saints and Seers come to teach in this world because of their previous karama. I hope you will be aware of Karma theory in Hinduism and Sikhism is different basically with one vital point” in Sikhism, Karama can be changed but in Hinduism, no it cannot be, if you are born low you are low forever, but Sikhism says that even if one is born in low caste, he/she can reach to the highest spiritual goal. Guru ji also says ( in Baramaha M-1) we are here because of His grace not the Karama[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]Lets just look at your own above quote of Guru Nanak which actually defines the full control of the Lord. Every day, many Sikhs listen to Guru Shabadas that inspire to go only for virtuous way and live in Lord’s love and reject/ignore the rest as perishable because that is useless in Lord’s presence. How many are there who actually go for that? Not many, most of them, read, sing and enjoy the beauty of it but return to their activities like business as usual. Isn’t it? that is the reason Guru ji says to some He wakes up and there are others who are very close to the truth but never get it.[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Arial]Then there are others who just have no such practices but once they encounter “soul with virtuous [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]surat[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Arial]” they change totally like Bhagat Dhanna ji, Bhai Ghanyaa Ji . As I have given a quote of Guru Nanak about inexpressible Hukam, it is not that simple to explain because it prevails in the whole system some of which we see and some is still unseen by us. You are ignoring that factor while structuring your questions[/FONT][/B] [B]Even for individual acts, one is just working as He wills(pk70)[/B] The law of [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Karma[/URL] fails here?(saint Soldier Ji)[/FONT] [B]No, it isn’t, karma is also a part of His will. It is a good question though. Let’s ponder over it in detail. The [/FONT]Surat[/FONT] is given, actions start as per [/FONT]Surat[/FONT], those actions are individual because of the given [/FONT]surat[/FONT]; however, never forget, they are due to the [/FONT]Surat[/FONT], and [/FONT]Surat[/FONT] is given by the Lord, that is why actions by others become His will. Are you with me?[/FONT][/B] [B]Just as an employee having his own brains just work for the employer, same way one represents and works for Him as an employee represents the employer.(pk70) [/B] The employer only designates us a rank and orders us to work it is we who using our skills and guts work and it is our will as to work hard or not.this is our [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/"]Karma[/URL] isnt it?(saint Soldier Ji)[/FONT] [B][FONT=Arial]We represent the infinite Employer, the skills we use are also His gifts( as regular employer provides us some stuff to perform) and the will remains employers, even before our regular employer, some times our own will carries no weight( we suggest and are rejected and we start doing as we were doing before our suggestion). You are forgetting Guru Ji’s answer here. The problem is that we question His ordinance partially instead of understanding its dominance in seen and beyond seen existence, another reason, the doubts pop up.[/FONT][/B] [B]In totality all what happens and done by people having different [/B][B]surat[/B][B], fall in His ordinance. Understanding the whole system reduces the doubts. If it is partially questioned, it clouds the truth.(pk70)[/B] Falsehood exhausts itself . Truth alone prevails ultimately. [URL="http://www.sikhism.us/guru-nanak-dev/"]Guru Nanak[/URL] pita/Ramkali,953( Saint Soldier Ji) [/FONT][B]What is falsehood in the comments above that triggered this quote of Gurbani? I couldn’t understand, forgive me, please elaborate it.[/B] [/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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God's Will And The Law Of Karma
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