Girls Kicked Out Of Nagar Kirtan Parade In Toronto. For Being Girls

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 26, 2016

I don't have a lot of info on this story only that as posted by user Gurpreet Singh Saini "These singhnis were part of the fauj for 4-5 years now and all the sudden these goons told em not to participate in the nagar kirtan without giving them reason ." and "I talked to Bhain Parminder Kaur Khalsa through one of the whatsapp activist group, she said even after asking them why they kicking em out , these so called marshall or 5 pyare couldn't give them answer !!" "This argument went back n forth .

First 5 pyare said its ok we will support you because committee was threatening them while they were in darbaar sahib but they didn't back up . They actually brought police to kick em out later on when nagar kirtan had already started moving."

Link to the video:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1118971281456761

I can't believe this happened in Canada in Toronto! Is Sikhi only for males now? It seems like its getting worse and worse! What are everyone's thoughts? Does anyone have any more information?

Admin · Apr 26, 2016

Disgraceful and shameless act... what kind of mentality can do such a thing... so blatantly...

Can we have more details about what actually happened there, the video is clipped right when the girls were asked what has happened?

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 26, 2016

I'm sorry I don't have any other details. I was hoping someone here might have got more details...

Harry Haller · Apr 27, 2016

Harkiran Kaur said:
I don't have a lot of info on this story only that as posted by user Gurpreet Singh Saini "These singhnis were part of the fauj for 4-5 years now and all the sudden these goons told em not to participate in the nagar kirtan without giving them reason ." and "I talked to Bhain Parminder Kaur Khalsa through one of the whatsapp activist group, she said even after asking them why they kicking em out , these so called marshall or 5 pyare couldn't give them answer !!" "This argument went back n forth . First 5 pyare said its ok we will support you because committee was threatening them while they were in darbaar sahib but they didn't back up . They actually brought police to kick em out later on when nagar kirtan had already started moving."

Link to the video:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1118971281456761

I can't believe this happened in Canada in Toronto! Is Sikhi only for males now? It seems like its getting worse and worse! What are everyone's thoughts? Does anyone have any more information?

This may be come as a surprise or a shock, but there are other issues that are affecting the Sikh Quom that are getting worse and worse that dwarf the above problem, if these issues are not addressed very soon, there will not be a Quom to be kicked out of.

To me all Sikhs are Sikhs, women, men, children, old people, africans, indians, brits, americans, canadians, all Sikhs, and I love them all, why is your attention solely on women?

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 27, 2016

Harry Haller said:
This may be come as a surprise or a shock, but there are other issues that are affecting the Sikh Quom that are getting worse and worse that dwarf the above problem, if these issues are not addressed very soon, there will not be a Quom to be kicked out of.

To me all Sikhs are Sikhs, women, men, children, old people, africans, indians, brits, americans, canadians, all Sikhs, and I love them all, why is your attention solely on women?

Because it's not men being kicked out of nagar kirtans for being men. It's not men being told they can't do seva of SGGSJ. It's not men being told they can't be Panj Pyaras. It's not men being told they are dirty because of menstruation.

If men were being discriminated in Sikhi I'd stick up for them too. These girls were forced from in front of the palki sahib simply for being girls. Couldn't have females too close to SGGSJ you know. Lowly females there to sully up SGGSJ. It's ridiculous. And if men keep forcing the issue under the rug nothing will ever change. There will always be some "more important" issue than actually practicing the equality taught by our Gurus. If we can't even practice what our Gurus taught do we even deserve to have a quom???

Admin · Apr 27, 2016

Harry Haller said:
To me all Sikhs are Sikhs, women, men, children, old people, africans, indians, brits, americans, canadians, all Sikhs, and I love them all,

@Harry Haller Ji

I wish we were living in an ideal world order where your above sentiments could be put an applicability. Alas! its never going to happen unless we collectively work towards it.

Why is your attention solely on women?

Why Not? I am a little perturbed at your continuous snub at the OP for focusing on these issues, which are evidently plaguing Sikhs for a long long time. It's high time Sikh women came out of the oblivion to claim their rightful place in Sikh paradigm...

SPN stands firmly behind such initiatives taken by Sikh woman or for that matter anybody who raises their voice against this blatant gender discrimination prevalent in Sikhs, particularly against woman.

:kaurflagred:

Gurfateh Ji

Tejwant Singh · Apr 27, 2016

Harkiran ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for sharing this horrible non-Sikhi incident caused by the fancy dress wearers- because of Vaisakhi Nagar Keertan- towards the women whose very wombs they themselves popped out from.

This is a long and fierce battle for all of us if we claim to advocate Equality for all.

Lastly, there is no better warrior for women's causes than yourself. Your passion gleams through each word you write. We are all with you.

Please keep up this passionate work!

Thanks & regards.

Tejwant Singh

Inderjeet Kaur · Apr 27, 2016

I am shocked and upset by this. I, too, want further details.

It's one thing when women are discriminated in India and Punjab, with their blatantly patriarchal social traditions, but to have it in Canada is beyond belief. Please. There must be more to this story.

And, Harry, discrimination against half the Sikh quam, against Guru ji's teachings is a very big deal. We are called upon to fight injustice wherever we find it...especially amongst our own. We lack all moral credibility if we don't. I would oppose any group so treated,

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 27, 2016

Update. This was posted by one of the Singhnis involved:
----

Harry Haller · Apr 28, 2016

Admin Singh said:
I wish we were living in an ideal world order where your above sentiments could be put an applicability. Alas! its never going to happen unless we collectively work towards it.

Personally I do not believe we are adressing the true problem

Admin Singh said:
Why Not?

Beacuse the issue is not about women, its about the small minded people that have found themselves in positions of power, that continually abuse and dilute the very religion they are supposed to represent. Let's flip this, there is much outrage about the situation as described in this post, why? Is the point to get these Sikhs back to some sort of equality in the eyes of the wise old men? Would we all be happy if concessions were given? I say both of these serve only to make women even more patronised, instead, remove those in power, such an important facet of Sikh thinking should not be open to debate, or discussion, itis simply a matter of boycotting any Gurdwara that operates on such principles.

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 28, 2016

Harry Ji the problem is that in all liklihood even IF they could be removed, whoever would replace them in that position of power would hold the same views of women anyway. That's how prevalent it is now. And that's even a big if you can get them removed from power, because as I said that thinking of women being inferior is so prevalent now that it's a huge problem.

These girls were flag bearers. Not even there as Panj Pyaras. But do you know the majority of the comments on the original Facebook post? supposed Singhs jumping in to say things like "well as long they weren't there trying to be Panj Pyaras because women can't do that" and I do mean many posts of Singhs voicing their contempt and disgust at the idea of women being Panj Puaras and that's not even what they were there for. Not that it matters because Sikh Rehet Maryada is clear that yes women CAN be Panj Pyaras. But the point is that's the first thing all these guys thought to post... That Well if these girls were trying to be Panj Pyaras... And their hatred is evident in their wording. They are feeling actual contempt hatred and disgust at the thought.

This is what we need to change. Removing a few goons in power won't help. The entire attitude that is growing in the entire Sikh community that is breeding hatred of women. Where is it coming from? It didn't come from our Gurus, nor from Gurbani either.

Dev singh · Apr 30, 2016

Harkiran Kaur said:
I don't have a lot of info on this story only that as posted by user Gurpreet Singh Saini "These singhnis were part of the fauj for 4-5 years now and all the sudden these goons told em not to participate in the nagar kirtan without giving them reason ." and "I talked to Bhain Parminder Kaur Khalsa through one of the whatsapp activist group, she said even after asking them why they kicking em out , these so called marshall or 5 pyare couldn't give them answer !!" "This argument went back n forth .

View attachment 19887

First 5 pyare said its ok we will support you because committee was threatening them while they were in darbaar sahib but they didn't back up . They actually brought police to kick em out later on when nagar kirtan had already started moving."

Link to the video:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1118971281456761

I can't believe this happened in Canada in Toronto! Is Sikhi only for males now? It seems like its getting worse and worse! What are everyone's thoughts? Does anyone have any more information?

Dev singh · Apr 30, 2016

when there is nagar kirtan do the people who are walking must cover their head and walk bare feet??

Tejwant Singh · Apr 30, 2016

No, people do not have to but it is preferable. Shoes are worn because the streets are dirty.

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 30, 2016

Tejwant Singh said:
No, people do not have to but it is preferable. Shoes are worn because the streets are dirty.

Furthermore it had nothing to do with that. The males behind them also had shoes and the Singhnis were in full bana with turbans and even chunnis over that.

Inderjeet Kaur · Apr 30, 2016

Harkiran Kaur said:
Furthermore it had nothing to do with that. The males behind them also had shoes and the Singhnis were in full bana with turbans and even chunnis over that.

Sounds like mean-spirited discrimination to me. Social justice is one of the main themes of Sikhi.

Harry Haller · Apr 30, 2016

Harkiran Kaur said:
Harry Ji the problem is that in all liklihood even IF they could be removed, whoever would replace them in that position of power would hold the same views of women anyway

exactly, you have to play the long game, it may not even be something that happens in your lifetime, you will have to be content with planting seeds, the fruits of which future generations of women will benefit from.

Harkiran Kaur said:
That's how prevalent it is now. And that's even a big if you can get them removed from power, because as I said that thinking of women being inferior is so prevalent now that it's a huge problem.

yes, it is a huge problem, and it requires a huge solution, forgive me but this is not staring and gawping at one common event, and seeing what the out come of that one event is, it is largely irrelevant, apart from the feelings of those involved.

Harkiran Kaur said:
These girls were flag bearers. Not even there as Panj Pyaras. But do you know the majority of the comments on the original Facebook post? supposed Singhs jumping in to say things like "well as long they weren't there trying to be Panj Pyaras because women can't do that"

So what have we learned, that Sikhism is full of outdated ideology, that it has forgotten its roots, that it is full of agendas, of neanderthal thinking, misogyny, casteism, etc etc etc

Some of us already knew this, reviewing these titbits is below you, you have a higher calling, and I am sure you will achieve much if you can keep your cool and work out what is happening with the system.

Harkiran Kaur said:
This is what we need to change. Removing a few goons in power won't help. The entire attitude that is growing in the entire Sikh community that is breeding hatred of women. Where is it coming from? It didn't come from our Gurus, nor from Gurbani either.

It is coming from those whose interests would be damaged by having more women involved, its easier to corrupt a man than it is a woman.

I am all for change, but change should be all encompassing, not just a crusade solely for the rights of women. Whether women can join in with the pointless rituals they are not allowed to do is irrelevant, this is not a time for concession or appeasement, this is the time for Sikhism to be what it should never have stopped being.

we all have a role to play, even beauty queens.

Harkiran Kaur · Apr 30, 2016

Harry Ji, unfortunately try telling those girls whose day was ruined, that their issue is not important. That they just should be happy if someday their granddaughters get to do it. If we keep this attitude, then any injustice just gets pushed to another generation, and then they will do the same thing, and so on. And it will never change because nobody thinks its important enough to tackle in the present. Gurbani tells us we have THIS left to achieve what we need to. Tomorrow is never promised. We have to fight injustice here and now, not leave it for some future generation to deal with. We MUST speak up about incidents like this. Do you know by this video spreading, and a sizeable amount of the panth upset about it, next year they won't be able to do this to the Singhnis there as flag bearers. The message they gave this year was that girls are not welcome anywhere near our Guru. They were moved somewhere way ahead in the parade, nowhere near SGGSJ, stuck in between two commerical vehicles. They were no longer flag bearers for SGGSJ. They became just some girls dressed up in bana which have nothing to do with our Guru. That was a HUGE injustice. And yes we HAVE to speak up about it. If we don't then we are not following Guru Gobind SIngh Ji's instruction to fight injustice... that instruction was even if the injustice is in our own ranks!

Harry Haller · Apr 30, 2016

Harkiran Kaur said:
Harry Ji, unfortunately try telling those girls whose day was ruined, that their issue is not important. That they just should be happy if someday their granddaughters get to do it. If we keep this attitude, then any injustice just gets pushed to another generation, and then they will do the same thing, and so on. And it will never change because nobody thinks its important enough to tackle in the present. Gurbani tells us we have THIS left to achieve what we need to. Tomorrow is never promised. We have to fight injustice here and now, not leave it for some future generation to deal with. We MUST speak up about incidents like this. Do you know by this video spreading, and a sizeable amount of the panth upset about it, next year they won't be able to do this to the Singhnis there as flag bearers. The message they gave this year was that girls are not welcome anywhere near our Guru. They were moved somewhere way ahead in the parade, nowhere near SGGSJ, stuck in between two commerical vehicles. They were no longer flag bearers for SGGSJ. They became just some girls dressed up in bana which have nothing to do with our Guru. That was a HUGE injustice. And yes we HAVE to speak up about it. If we don't then we are not following Guru Gobind SIngh Ji's instruction to fight injustice... that instruction was even if the injustice is in our own ranks!

ah yes, but errr, errr, err ok, you have a valid point

Seeker2013 · May 1, 2016

I feel like every religion after a while since its inception becomes corrupted.

When Guru Nanak Dev ji came on this earth, there was discrimination on basis of religion , caste and gender. And Guru ji addressed all of them

When Guru Nanak said "Neecha andar neech jaat , neechi hu att neech. Nanak tin ke sang saath , wadiye seo kya rees. Jithe neech samaaliye, tithe nadar teri bakshis"
(Those who are the lowest of low castes, the extremely low ones, Nanak prefers their company.
Why prefer company of so-called 'big' people, because where the lowly gets cared for, there god's mercy reigns )

Now I am not at all saying women are lowly. Women are equal in all respect in Sikhi .

And I have heard some people even justify women being denied sewa as panj pyaare, etc by saying that during the baisakhi of 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh ji asked for heads, no women got up.
However I think its totally wrong to say.

And all these incidences do prove atleast one point. Whats on the paper is always different to whats in the practice when it comes to religions .

Religion and community are two different things . The problem is that the community today would rather follow the burraaah , fukre-type punjabism than the original nirvair sikhi of 10 gurus.
Its not just the women, We have problem with gays, 'bhaiyyas', etc despite the fact that Guru Gobind singh ji were born in 'bhaiyya-land' (aka bihar)

Someone with the sikhi-like saroop can get mass following among hindus *cough *cough .. Nirankaris and radhasoamis I am talking about you ! It means sikhi saroop is definitely not a barrier to get people into sikhi

and we have done little for the parchar of sikhi among the low-caste of hindus in india. We would have easily had our numbers at 5% or more if there was a india-wide parchar among the untouchables. But thanks to our ignorance and jatt-superiority-complex and our 'bhaiyya-phobia' and our false sense of 'sardaar' ego among a host of other things, many in india don't even know they have a much better option of religion : Guru Nanak's sikhi