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Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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<blockquote data-quote="ekmusafir_ajnabi" data-source="post: 57309" data-attributes="member: 4318"><p></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Quote:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I take it you are limited by your "Hukam" too, if that is the case then you are by definition incapable of teaching anyone, therefore there is nothing to understand. You have cited your opinions (as well as some very unkind extreme comments), and I disagree.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Your comment is a vivid demonstration of your lack of understanding of spirituality. I too am under “Hukam” but everyones “Hukam” is different based on their spiritual awareness. Therefore you can be taught by your senior.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">You feel very hurt by my comments. How about yours, you are almost saying that our Gurus are hypocrites. One set of rules for Sikhs and the other for Non-sikhs (other religions). </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Jabhi baan lagge, Tabhi rosse jagge.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Those comments I made are still valid and I still stand by them and will demonstrate them to you in due course. You need to re-boot your mindset. You are heavily influenced by the Maya virus and depict a personification of Kalyug. It is not your fault, you are bound by Kalyug. “Right will look wrong and wrong right.” Gurbani stands witness to this.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Quote:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Using statements such as Blasphemy to describe a piece of researched work is UGLY. Such usage of words on this forum are uncalled for. My experince of people who use such words are that they are usually quite intolerant people</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Your research work is very deficient and is very damaging to the future generation of Sikhism. You are not qualified or experienced enough yet to do research work on Sikhism.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Intolerance? Yes there is always intolerance between a bairagee(bhagat) and the world he lives in. You work is an insult and demeaning to the Sacrifices of “Our Gurus”. </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Quote:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The rest of this tukh states:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><strong><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?</span></span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></span></em></strong><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.</span></span></em><strong><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.</span></span></em></strong><strong><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.</span></span></em></strong><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.</span></span></em><em><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.</span></span></em></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Stating one line is a classsic ploy by those who seek to mistranslate and misrepresent is to quote one liners from Bani out of context.......what you have done is a good example of this.</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">What do you mean by equal par? If by this you mean we should take everything you say as truth then I will disagree again. Clearly quoting one liners from Bani is not the truth.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I am fully aware of what the tukh states but It appears that you are missing the point. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">You accuse me for talking out of context. Well let us go right to the beginning and see what is Sikh Phillosophy and what are the underlying values of Sikhism. You and your exteemed colleague appears to have totally misunderstood the philosophy of Sikhism and gone off-course to lay the foundations for yet another misleading religion.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I have taken the base information from Wikipedia as reference and made some important modifications. We will only move forward once we are in agreement. I will answer to all your allegations and prove what I say is right.</span></span></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Sikh religious philosophy</span></strong></p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</span></strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_primary_beliefs_and_principles" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #0000ff">Sikhism primary beliefs and principles</span></span></span></u></a></em></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>One God:</strong> - There is only one God who has infinite qualities and names. S/He is the same for all religions. God is Creator and Sustainer and Destroyer - all that you see around you is His creation. S/He is everywhere, in everything. S/He is fearless and with no enemies. Only God is without birth or death and S/He has and will exist forever. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Reincarnation, karma and salvation:</strong> – Every creature has a soul. On death, the soul is passed from one body to another until liberation. The journey of the soul is governed by the deeds and actions that we perform during our lives. <strong>It is also influenced by the state of ones mind leading to the final breaths (Death).</strong></span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Remember God:</strong> Love God, but have fear of Him as well. Only by <strong>keeping the Creator in your mind at all times </strong>will you make progress in your spiritual evolution. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Humanity (brotherhood):</strong> All human beings are equal. We are all sons and daughters of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waheguru" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Waheguru</span></u></a>, the Almighty. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Uphold moral values:</strong> <strong>Defend, protect and fight for the rights of all creatures</strong>, in particular your fellow human beings. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Personal sacrifice:</strong> Be prepared to give your life for all supreme principles. See the life of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Teg_Bahadur" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Guru Teg Bahadur</span></u></a>. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Many paths lead to God:</strong> – Sikhs are not special; they are not the only chosen people of God. <strong>Simply calling yourself a Sikh does not bring you salvation. Sikhism however present you with a very simple sure and progressive path.</strong></span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Positive attitude toward life:</strong> "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardi_Kala" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Chardi Kala</span></u></a>" – Always have a positive, optimistic and buoyant view of life. God is always here is guise – He will be your help. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Disciplined life:</strong> Upon baptism, a Sikh must wear the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5Ks" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">5Ks</span></u></a> and perform strict recital of the five prayers <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Banis</span></u></a>, etc. Only get baptised when you have no doubts left. To get baptised and pursue a life doubtness of (life of a Bemukh) is treated harshly by our Gurus.</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>No special worship days:</strong> Sikhs do not believe that any particular day is holier than any other. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Conquer the five thieves:</strong> It is every Sikh's duty to defeat these five thieves: Pride (a’Hankar), Anger (Kr’odh), Greed (Lob’H), Attachment (Mo’H), and Lust (K’haam). Known collectively as P.A.G.A.L. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Conquer the five sences:</strong> It is every Sikh's duty to renounce these five senses: <strong><span style="color: black">T</span></strong><span style="color: black">ounge (Desire to eat Tasty foods), <strong>H</strong>ear (Habbit of listerning to Gossip), <strong>S</strong>peech ( Too much unnecessary Talking), <strong>E</strong>xternal visualisation (Desire to see everything externally), <strong>T</strong>ouch (To feel your and others presence) that a body takes pleasure from and confirms ones existance.</span> (Known in Bani as Bairaganiaan)</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Attack with Five Weapons:</strong> Contentment (Santokh), Charity (Dan), Kindness (Daya ), Positive Energy (Chardi Kala), Humility (Nimarta). </span></span></li> </ol><p><em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_underlying_values" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #0000ff">Sikhism underlying values</span></span></span></u></a></em></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Equality:</strong> All humans are equal before God – No discrimination is allowed on the basis of caste, race, gender, creed, origin, color, education, status, wealth, etc. The principles of universal equality and brotherhood are important pillars of Sikhism. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>God’s spirit:</strong> All creatures have God’s spirits and must be properly respected. Show love for all <strong>living things</strong>. Mistreatment or <strong>harming of any living creature is tabooed and forbidden.</strong> Remember, your next birth may be as a different animal. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Personal right:</strong> Every person has a right to life but this right is restricted and has attached certain duties – simple living is essential. A Sikh is expected to rise early, meditate and pray, consume simple food, perform an honest day's work, carry out duties for your family, enjoy life and always be positive, be charitable and support the needy, etc. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Actions count:</strong> Salvation is obtained by one’s actions – good deeds, remembrance of God – <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naam" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Naam</span></u></a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simran" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Simran</span></u></a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtan" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff">Kirtan</span></u></a>, etc. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Living a family life:</strong> Encouraged to live as a family unit to provide and nurture children for the perpetual benefit of creation. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Sharing:</strong> It is encouraged to share and give to charity 10 percent of one’s net earnings DASBAND. </span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><strong>Accept God’s will:</strong> Develop your personality so that you recognize happy event and miserable events as one – the will of God causes them. </span></span></li> </ol><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 12px">I am sure even you will agree to all the above. If not then raise your concerns.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Quote:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Who are you to state whether I have spiritual wisdom or not? We have discussed and you were proven wrong in all your assertions. My "Hukam" is not to mislead but to explore the truth and expose those who would define something by their own prejudices.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><u><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Who am I to state whether I have spiritual wisdom or not?</span></span></u><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> Well you have not earned enough brownie points yet to know who I am. You are not equipped yet to make decisions. However exploring is everyone’s right.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Quote:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Actually if you bothered to read the essay it actually challenges these translations, and states they are inaccurate. You would know this if you had bothered to read the essay. It states at the begining:</span></span><strong><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">One thing that has incensed us is the use of incorrect History and mistranslation to back up arguments. It was these points that we felt needed clarification and we hope the reader will find that this essay does that. </span></span></strong><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I consider myself no authority, but I am easily able to challenge your arguments and translations. Also there are many other translations. Devinder Chahil has done a good job too.</span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Consider it courteous on my side that I chose to ignore your statement because you have almost re-written history by your comments. You can challenge as much as you like but that does not mean that you fully understand what I am saying.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Quote:</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Your vitriolic statements say otherwise, and using staements such "<em>as it will be your misfortune and your own fault to get punished. So do not let your tongue too loose again." and "If it is part of your "Hukam" to mislead people" say otherwise.</em> I will continue to speak my mind, and neither you or anyone else will not be able to stop me from speaking my mind. No threats of divine punishment by you will frighten me. You are not the only person under the protection of the Guru's, to assume so is just pure Hankaar. </span></span><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I will have to warn you to stop making statements of a personal nature and start debating the issues.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">“Khotey nu loon devo te oh aakhda hai ki mere kunn put kehe ne.” </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Those were not threats but mere advice. To advise someone from making a foolish mistake (intentional or un-intentional) is not considered to be Hankaar. And it is not Hankaar to be under Gurus protection, it is a blessing. If you too are also that close to Guru ji’s then you too are free to make a statement. I will be happy to be aquainted with you as a fellow traveller (Musafir).</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Well if you want to debate then lets debate right from the beginning. </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Do you agree with the </span></span><em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_primary_beliefs_and_principles" target="_blank"><u><span style="color: #0000ff"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> primary beliefs and principles</span></span></span></u></a><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px"> of Sikhism and the underlying values as stated above.</span></span></em></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Where does it say in the Bani that a Sikh has the right to take anyones life. Be it Human or an animal? And that such action has no consequences?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Based on your comments, Is it not then hypocrisy on part of our Gurus to Criticise Hindus and/or Muslims for killing animals? Wheras their own students are free to do so. In either case the animal looses its life for no reason, whether you read Quaranic verses or do jhattka whilst killing it.? Death is death = loss of life.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">If you want to understand Bhagat Kabeer then you will need to spiritually elevate yourself to his level to comment on him. For that matter be it </span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Bhagat Sadana ji or Bhagat Ravi Das ji. One should not make unqualified statement.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Bhagat Sadana and Bhagat Ravidass ji were spiritually elevated people. They were not slaves of their bodies. Their soul and body were two different entities. The actions of their bodies were mechanical and did not impact on their Karmas as “I” was not present. I suggest you only give examples on issues that are within your grasp.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Look forward to your comments.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #5b5b5b"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Ekmusafir ajnabi</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ekmusafir_ajnabi, post: 57309, member: 4318"] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Quote:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]I take it you are limited by your "Hukam" too, if that is the case then you are by definition incapable of teaching anyone, therefore there is nothing to understand. You have cited your opinions (as well as some very unkind extreme comments), and I disagree.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Your comment is a vivid demonstration of your lack of understanding of spirituality. I too am under “Hukam” but everyones “Hukam” is different based on their spiritual awareness. Therefore you can be taught by your senior.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]You feel very hurt by my comments. How about yours, you are almost saying that our Gurus are hypocrites. One set of rules for Sikhs and the other for Non-sikhs (other religions). [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Jabhi baan lagge, Tabhi rosse jagge.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Those comments I made are still valid and I still stand by them and will demonstrate them to you in due course. You need to re-boot your mindset. You are heavily influenced by the Maya virus and depict a personification of Kalyug. It is not your fault, you are bound by Kalyug. “Right will look wrong and wrong right.” Gurbani stands witness to this.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Quote:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Using statements such as Blasphemy to describe a piece of researched work is UGLY. Such usage of words on this forum are uncalled for. My experince of people who use such words are that they are usually quite intolerant people[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana] Your research work is very deficient and is very damaging to the future generation of Sikhism. You are not qualified or experienced enough yet to do research work on Sikhism.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Intolerance? Yes there is always intolerance between a bairagee(bhagat) and the world he lives in. You work is an insult and demeaning to the Sacrifices of “Our Gurus”. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Quote:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]The rest of this tukh states: [/FONT][/COLOR][B][I][COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin? [/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B][I][COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][B][I][COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B][B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][/B][B][I][COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B][B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][/B][I][COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][I][COLOR=red][FONT=Arial]They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.[/FONT][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]Stating one line is a classsic ploy by those who seek to mistranslate and misrepresent is to quote one liners from Bani out of context.......what you have done is a good example of this.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]What do you mean by equal par? If by this you mean we should take everything you say as truth then I will disagree again. Clearly quoting one liners from Bani is not the truth.[/FONT][/COLOR][I][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]I am fully aware of what the tukh states but It appears that you are missing the point. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]You accuse me for talking out of context. Well let us go right to the beginning and see what is Sikh Phillosophy and what are the underlying values of Sikhism. You and your exteemed colleague appears to have totally misunderstood the philosophy of Sikhism and gone off-course to lay the foundations for yet another misleading religion.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial]I have taken the base information from Wikipedia as reference and made some important modifications. We will only move forward once we are in agreement. I will answer to all your allegations and prove what I say is right.[/FONT][/COLOR] [B][FONT=Times New Roman]Sikh religious philosophy[/FONT][/B] [B][FONT=Times New Roman]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/FONT][/B] [B][I][COLOR=green][/COLOR][/I][/B] [I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_primary_beliefs_and_principles"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Sikhism primary beliefs and principles[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][/I] [LIST=1] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]One God:[/B] - There is only one God who has infinite qualities and names. S/He is the same for all religions. God is Creator and Sustainer and Destroyer - all that you see around you is His creation. S/He is everywhere, in everything. S/He is fearless and with no enemies. Only God is without birth or death and S/He has and will exist forever. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Reincarnation, karma and salvation:[/B] – Every creature has a soul. On death, the soul is passed from one body to another until liberation. The journey of the soul is governed by the deeds and actions that we perform during our lives. [B]It is also influenced by the state of ones mind leading to the final breaths (Death).[/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Remember God:[/B] Love God, but have fear of Him as well. Only by [B]keeping the Creator in your mind at all times [/B]will you make progress in your spiritual evolution. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Humanity (brotherhood):[/B] All human beings are equal. We are all sons and daughters of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waheguru"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Waheguru[/COLOR][/U][/URL], the Almighty. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Uphold moral values:[/B] [B]Defend, protect and fight for the rights of all creatures[/B], in particular your fellow human beings. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Personal sacrifice:[/B] Be prepared to give your life for all supreme principles. See the life of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Teg_Bahadur"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Guru Teg Bahadur[/COLOR][/U][/URL]. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Many paths lead to God:[/B] – Sikhs are not special; they are not the only chosen people of God. [B]Simply calling yourself a Sikh does not bring you salvation. Sikhism however present you with a very simple sure and progressive path.[/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Positive attitude toward life:[/B] "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardi_Kala"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Chardi Kala[/COLOR][/U][/URL]" – Always have a positive, optimistic and buoyant view of life. God is always here is guise – He will be your help. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Disciplined life:[/B] Upon baptism, a Sikh must wear the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5Ks"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]5Ks[/COLOR][/U][/URL] and perform strict recital of the five prayers [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bani"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Banis[/COLOR][/U][/URL], etc. Only get baptised when you have no doubts left. To get baptised and pursue a life doubtness of (life of a Bemukh) is treated harshly by our Gurus.[/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]No special worship days:[/B] Sikhs do not believe that any particular day is holier than any other. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Conquer the five thieves:[/B] It is every Sikh's duty to defeat these five thieves: Pride (a’Hankar), Anger (Kr’odh), Greed (Lob’H), Attachment (Mo’H), and Lust (K’haam). Known collectively as P.A.G.A.L. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Conquer the five sences:[/B] It is every Sikh's duty to renounce these five senses: [B][COLOR=black]T[/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black]ounge (Desire to eat Tasty foods), [B]H[/B]ear (Habbit of listerning to Gossip), [B]S[/B]peech ( Too much unnecessary Talking), [B]E[/B]xternal visualisation (Desire to see everything externally), [B]T[/B]ouch (To feel your and others presence) that a body takes pleasure from and confirms ones existance.[/COLOR] (Known in Bani as Bairaganiaan)[/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Attack with Five Weapons:[/B] Contentment (Santokh), Charity (Dan), Kindness (Daya ), Positive Energy (Chardi Kala), Humility (Nimarta). [/FONT][/SIZE][/LIST][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_underlying_values"][U][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Sikhism underlying values[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/URL][/I][COLOR=black][/COLOR] [LIST=1] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Equality:[/B] All humans are equal before God – No discrimination is allowed on the basis of caste, race, gender, creed, origin, color, education, status, wealth, etc. The principles of universal equality and brotherhood are important pillars of Sikhism. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]God’s spirit:[/B] All creatures have God’s spirits and must be properly respected. Show love for all [B]living things[/B]. Mistreatment or [B]harming of any living creature is tabooed and forbidden.[/B] Remember, your next birth may be as a different animal. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Personal right:[/B] Every person has a right to life but this right is restricted and has attached certain duties – simple living is essential. A Sikh is expected to rise early, meditate and pray, consume simple food, perform an honest day's work, carry out duties for your family, enjoy life and always be positive, be charitable and support the needy, etc. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Actions count:[/B] Salvation is obtained by one’s actions – good deeds, remembrance of God – [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naam"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Naam[/COLOR][/U][/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simran"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Simran[/COLOR][/U][/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtan"][U][COLOR=#0000ff]Kirtan[/COLOR][/U][/URL], etc. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Living a family life:[/B] Encouraged to live as a family unit to provide and nurture children for the perpetual benefit of creation. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Sharing:[/B] It is encouraged to share and give to charity 10 percent of one’s net earnings DASBAND. [/FONT][/SIZE] [*][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Accept God’s will:[/B] Develop your personality so that you recognize happy event and miserable events as one – the will of God causes them. [/FONT][/SIZE][/LIST][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]I am sure even you will agree to all the above. If not then raise your concerns.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Quote:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Who are you to state whether I have spiritual wisdom or not? We have discussed and you were proven wrong in all your assertions. My "Hukam" is not to mislead but to explore the truth and expose those who would define something by their own prejudices.[/FONT][/COLOR][I][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Who am I to state whether I have spiritual wisdom or not?[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] Well you have not earned enough brownie points yet to know who I am. You are not equipped yet to make decisions. However exploring is everyone’s right.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Quote:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Actually if you bothered to read the essay it actually challenges these translations, and states they are inaccurate. You would know this if you had bothered to read the essay. It states at the begining:[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Arial]One thing that has incensed us is the use of incorrect History and mistranslation to back up arguments. It was these points that we felt needed clarification and we hope the reader will find that this essay does that. [/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I consider myself no authority, but I am easily able to challenge your arguments and translations. Also there are many other translations. Devinder Chahil has done a good job too.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Consider it courteous on my side that I chose to ignore your statement because you have almost re-written history by your comments. You can challenge as much as you like but that does not mean that you fully understand what I am saying.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Tahoma]Quote:[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Your vitriolic statements say otherwise, and using staements such "[I]as it will be your misfortune and your own fault to get punished. So do not let your tongue too loose again." and "If it is part of your "Hukam" to mislead people" say otherwise.[/I] I will continue to speak my mind, and neither you or anyone else will not be able to stop me from speaking my mind. No threats of divine punishment by you will frighten me. You are not the only person under the protection of the Guru's, to assume so is just pure Hankaar. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana] I will have to warn you to stop making statements of a personal nature and start debating the issues. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]“Khotey nu loon devo te oh aakhda hai ki mere kunn put kehe ne.” [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Those were not threats but mere advice. To advise someone from making a foolish mistake (intentional or un-intentional) is not considered to be Hankaar. And it is not Hankaar to be under Gurus protection, it is a blessing. If you too are also that close to Guru ji’s then you too are free to make a statement. I will be happy to be aquainted with you as a fellow traveller (Musafir).[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Well if you want to debate then lets debate right from the beginning. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Do you agree with the [/FONT][/COLOR][I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism_primary_beliefs_and_principles"][U][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] primary beliefs and principles[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/U][/URL][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] of Sikhism and the underlying values as stated above.[/SIZE][/FONT][/I][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Where does it say in the Bani that a Sikh has the right to take anyones life. Be it Human or an animal? And that such action has no consequences? [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Based on your comments, Is it not then hypocrisy on part of our Gurus to Criticise Hindus and/or Muslims for killing animals? Wheras their own students are free to do so. In either case the animal looses its life for no reason, whether you read Quaranic verses or do jhattka whilst killing it.? Death is death = loss of life.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]If you want to understand Bhagat Kabeer then you will need to spiritually elevate yourself to his level to comment on him. For that matter be it [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Bhagat Sadana ji or Bhagat Ravi Das ji. One should not make unqualified statement.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Bhagat Sadana and Bhagat Ravidass ji were spiritually elevated people. They were not slaves of their bodies. Their soul and body were two different entities. The actions of their bodies were mechanical and did not impact on their Karmas as “I” was not present. I suggest you only give examples on issues that are within your grasp.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Look forward to your comments.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][FONT=Verdana]Ekmusafir ajnabi[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#5b5b5b][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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