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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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<blockquote data-quote="Harry Haller" data-source="post: 196860" data-attributes="member: 14641"><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><span style="color: #000080">Kala Afghana on Non-Vegetarianism</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times'"><strong>1.</strong> The Adi Granth does not concern itself with either vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>2.</strong> Whereas the Adi Granth expounds at length about the need to abandon various vices, it says nothing about the need to abandon non-vegetarian diets.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>3.</strong> The Adi Granth does not attempt to pass judgement on the dietary components required for maintaining a healthy human body.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">The Adi Granth does, however, recommend against consuming substances that either cause grief or generate mental turbulence.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>4.</strong> Those that choose to dwell on the consumption of substances rather than focus their minds on remembering God have been derided by the Adi Granth ('consumed by the desire for substances').</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">This 'desire' can be either for a single substance or for a number of substances.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">It is worth noting that the Adi Granth mentions the desire for meat at the very end of a list of nine desires:</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">'The desires for gold, silver, women, fragrances,'</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">'horses, beds, palaces, sweets, and meat.'</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">(Verse 43/1, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 15]</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">It is clear from Guru Nanak's verse (above) that he accords meat a status similar to gold, silver, women, fragrances, horses, beds, palaces, and sweets.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">To forget God and remain obsessed with substances is 'desire.'</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">For those that are immersed in the rememberance of God, no substance is 'desirous.'</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">To obsess unduly on meat, i.e. only one of the nine desires acknowledged by the Adi Granth, is tantamount to ignoring the fundamental messages of the Adi Granth.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>5.</strong> To attach undue importance to matters of eating and drinking rather than focusing on remembering God has been termed by our Gurus as harmful to the pursuit of a spiritual lifestyle. Furthermore, our Gurus have placed meat on par with other superior substances such as fruit, butter, jaggery, and refined flour.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">'What good are fruits, butter, sweet jaggery, refined flour, and meat?'</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">(Verse 44/2, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 142]</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Verses such as the one above make it abundantly clear that it is not incorrect to view meat on par with other superior substances such as gold, silver, butter, jaggery, and refined flour.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>6.</strong> Bhai Randhir Singh and other writers opposed to non-vegetarian diets have omitted verses that do not suit their purpose.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Consequently, these writers have zoomed in on just two of Guru Nanak's verses, namely: 'Mortals are first conceived in flesh and subsequently dwell on flesh' and 'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' (Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289).</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Even these two verses have only been mentioned out of compulsion since the Sikh community is already exposed to these verses. Preachers, Guru Nanak's biographies, and other historical texts have widely publicized these verses due to their said reference to Guru Nanak's visit to Kurukshetra.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Nevertheless, these writers have tried their level best to distort the meanings of these verses.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Clearly, Bhai Randhir Singh has been guided not by an in-depth understanding of the Adi Granth but by his own agenda, wishes, and desires.<SUP>1</SUP></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>7.</strong> The meat that Muslim's have always referred to as 'halal' began to be referred to by brahmins as 'kutha' meat of the 'malech.'</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>8.</strong> The following are the reasons why Sikhs were forbidden from eating kutha meat:</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>a.</strong> During Mughal rule, kutha meat was used to destroy the Hindu faith.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Eating kutha meat resulted in spiritual weakness among Hindus.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>b.</strong> According to Mughal law, Hindus were neither permitted to keep weapons at home nor allowed to cook and eat any form of meat.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Sikhism's tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, placed two major impediments in the way of Mughal oppression via his decision to a) arm the Sikhs and b) ban Sikhs from consuming spiritually detrimental katha food preparations.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>9.</strong> Only those Adi Granth verses that refer to Islam have used the term 'kutha.' Otherwise, the terms 'kuh' or 'kuhi' (slaughter) have been employed.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Therefore, it is clear that the convention of referring to meat prepared in the Muslim style as 'kutha' existed at least since Guru Nanak's time.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>10.</strong> The body may die, but never the soul.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>11.</strong> Mankind (as opposed to God) has devised different names for identifying the various types of externally distinguishable living organisms.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">It is mankind that considers it sinful to eat certain living organisms and not others.<SUP>A</SUP></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>12.</strong> The Adi Granth has compared the bodies of living organisms to gowns, clothing, etc.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Therefore, it is mankind that has invented convenient terminology such as flour, meat, spinach, wood, etc. to refer to various bodies/coverings/clothing.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Disputes over the difference between spinach and meat are simply the result of either human ignorance or mischief.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>13.</strong> The human body is unique among all other species.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">This is because of all species God has awarded the ability to distinguish moral right from wrong only to humans.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>14.</strong> Only the human mind is capable of yearning for relief from sorrow or attainment of happiness.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">All other species lack the ability to yearn.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>15.</strong> The Adi Granth only works on diseases of the human mind.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">It is a recipe for winning the world by being victorious over the human mind.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">The Adi Granth teaches us how to channel the immense forces of the human mind into positive directions.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">The Adi Granth has to do with the soul.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">None of the great holy books preaches about the welfare of living creatures.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">We have continuously been engaged in the endeavor of reigning in the human mind.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>16.</strong> The Adi Granth frequently refers to the human body as rare (unique) or God's temple.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">The human body has been likened to a horse that carries the soul into God's country and a ladder that helps humans climb great heights to reach God's palaces.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">It is for this reason that the human body is supreme among eighty-four lakh (84 times 100,000) species.<SUP>2</SUP></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Therefore, human society did not accept the idea of eating human flesh.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">All other species such as animals, birds, insects, and micro-organisms are ingested into the human body in one form or another. In many other ways these animals and birds are slave to the superior human species.<SUP>3</SUP></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>17.</strong> Eating and drinking are pure acts. However, the Adi Granth code of conduct places restrictions on the consumption of those substances which humans have manifested as desires that either harm the human body or cause grief.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>18.</strong> Humans have treated meat as a part of their diet since ancient times.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Even today there are several peoples on this earth whose primary diet consists of animals, birds, and fish.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>19.</strong> All living things - including lentils, vegatable oils, insects, micro-organisms, animals, and birds - possess equivalent life.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Our merciful behavior toward animals and birds should include every effort toward attention to their diet and comfort, protection from their mistreatment as beasts of burden, offering relief from pain and suffering.<SUP>4</SUP></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Whenever treatment is not feasible, it is merciful to assist helpless animals by sparing them pain and discomfort by ending their life swiftly via a blow to the head, electricity, etc.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>20.</strong> No faith founder has campaigned against the trade of millions of pounds of meat, fish, and eggs - trade in non-vegetarian commodities continues just as seamlessly as trade in grains.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Since ancients times animals and birds have been cultivated and harvested for trade just like crops.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'"><strong>Conclusion:</strong></span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Therefore, to raise issues pertaining to vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism is sheer foolishness.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">The decision regarding whether or not to consume non-vegetarian diet should be upto each individual.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Neither does one become sinful by consuming meat nor does one become pious by renouncing meat.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">The Adi Granth, which embodies the spirit of Guru Nanak, does not attempt to define restrictions pertaining to religious duties and horoscopes?.</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">Let us not distort the true import of the following verse from our Guru:</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289]</span> </p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'times'">'Which is meat? Which is spinach? Which is sinful?' [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289]</span> </p><p><a href="http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_090803a.html" target="_blank">http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_090803a.html</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Harry Haller, post: 196860, member: 14641"] [SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Kala Afghana on Non-Vegetarianism[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE] [FONT=Times][B]1.[/B] The Adi Granth does not concern itself with either vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]2.[/B] Whereas the Adi Granth expounds at length about the need to abandon various vices, it says nothing about the need to abandon non-vegetarian diets.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]3.[/B] The Adi Granth does not attempt to pass judgement on the dietary components required for maintaining a healthy human body.[/FONT] [FONT=times]The Adi Granth does, however, recommend against consuming substances that either cause grief or generate mental turbulence.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]4.[/B] Those that choose to dwell on the consumption of substances rather than focus their minds on remembering God have been derided by the Adi Granth ('consumed by the desire for substances').[/FONT] [FONT=times]This 'desire' can be either for a single substance or for a number of substances.[/FONT] [FONT=times]It is worth noting that the Adi Granth mentions the desire for meat at the very end of a list of nine desires:[/FONT] [FONT=times]'The desires for gold, silver, women, fragrances,'[/FONT] [FONT=times]'horses, beds, palaces, sweets, and meat.'[/FONT] [FONT=times](Verse 43/1, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 15][/FONT] [FONT=times]It is clear from Guru Nanak's verse (above) that he accords meat a status similar to gold, silver, women, fragrances, horses, beds, palaces, and sweets.[/FONT] [FONT=times]To forget God and remain obsessed with substances is 'desire.'[/FONT] [FONT=times]For those that are immersed in the rememberance of God, no substance is 'desirous.'[/FONT] [FONT=times]To obsess unduly on meat, i.e. only one of the nine desires acknowledged by the Adi Granth, is tantamount to ignoring the fundamental messages of the Adi Granth.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]5.[/B] To attach undue importance to matters of eating and drinking rather than focusing on remembering God has been termed by our Gurus as harmful to the pursuit of a spiritual lifestyle. Furthermore, our Gurus have placed meat on par with other superior substances such as fruit, butter, jaggery, and refined flour.[/FONT] [FONT=times]'What good are fruits, butter, sweet jaggery, refined flour, and meat?'[/FONT] [FONT=times](Verse 44/2, p. 34) [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 142][/FONT] [FONT=times]Verses such as the one above make it abundantly clear that it is not incorrect to view meat on par with other superior substances such as gold, silver, butter, jaggery, and refined flour.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]6.[/B] Bhai Randhir Singh and other writers opposed to non-vegetarian diets have omitted verses that do not suit their purpose.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Consequently, these writers have zoomed in on just two of Guru Nanak's verses, namely: 'Mortals are first conceived in flesh and subsequently dwell on flesh' and 'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' (Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289).[/FONT] [FONT=times]Even these two verses have only been mentioned out of compulsion since the Sikh community is already exposed to these verses. Preachers, Guru Nanak's biographies, and other historical texts have widely publicized these verses due to their said reference to Guru Nanak's visit to Kurukshetra.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Nevertheless, these writers have tried their level best to distort the meanings of these verses.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Clearly, Bhai Randhir Singh has been guided not by an in-depth understanding of the Adi Granth but by his own agenda, wishes, and desires.<SUP>1</SUP>[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]7.[/B] The meat that Muslim's have always referred to as 'halal' began to be referred to by brahmins as 'kutha' meat of the 'malech.'[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]8.[/B] The following are the reasons why Sikhs were forbidden from eating kutha meat:[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]a.[/B] During Mughal rule, kutha meat was used to destroy the Hindu faith.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Eating kutha meat resulted in spiritual weakness among Hindus.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]b.[/B] According to Mughal law, Hindus were neither permitted to keep weapons at home nor allowed to cook and eat any form of meat.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Sikhism's tenth Guru, Gobind Singh, placed two major impediments in the way of Mughal oppression via his decision to a) arm the Sikhs and b) ban Sikhs from consuming spiritually detrimental katha food preparations.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]9.[/B] Only those Adi Granth verses that refer to Islam have used the term 'kutha.' Otherwise, the terms 'kuh' or 'kuhi' (slaughter) have been employed.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Therefore, it is clear that the convention of referring to meat prepared in the Muslim style as 'kutha' existed at least since Guru Nanak's time.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]10.[/B] The body may die, but never the soul.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]11.[/B] Mankind (as opposed to God) has devised different names for identifying the various types of externally distinguishable living organisms.[/FONT] [FONT=times]It is mankind that considers it sinful to eat certain living organisms and not others.<SUP>A</SUP>[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]12.[/B] The Adi Granth has compared the bodies of living organisms to gowns, clothing, etc.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Therefore, it is mankind that has invented convenient terminology such as flour, meat, spinach, wood, etc. to refer to various bodies/coverings/clothing.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Disputes over the difference between spinach and meat are simply the result of either human ignorance or mischief.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]13.[/B] The human body is unique among all other species.[/FONT] [FONT=times]This is because of all species God has awarded the ability to distinguish moral right from wrong only to humans.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]14.[/B] Only the human mind is capable of yearning for relief from sorrow or attainment of happiness.[/FONT] [FONT=times]All other species lack the ability to yearn.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]15.[/B] The Adi Granth only works on diseases of the human mind.[/FONT] [FONT=times]It is a recipe for winning the world by being victorious over the human mind.[/FONT] [FONT=times]The Adi Granth teaches us how to channel the immense forces of the human mind into positive directions.[/FONT] [FONT=times]The Adi Granth has to do with the soul.[/FONT] [FONT=times]None of the great holy books preaches about the welfare of living creatures.[/FONT] [FONT=times]We have continuously been engaged in the endeavor of reigning in the human mind.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]16.[/B] The Adi Granth frequently refers to the human body as rare (unique) or God's temple.[/FONT] [FONT=times]The human body has been likened to a horse that carries the soul into God's country and a ladder that helps humans climb great heights to reach God's palaces.[/FONT] [FONT=times]It is for this reason that the human body is supreme among eighty-four lakh (84 times 100,000) species.<SUP>2</SUP>[/FONT] [FONT=times]Therefore, human society did not accept the idea of eating human flesh.[/FONT] [FONT=times]All other species such as animals, birds, insects, and micro-organisms are ingested into the human body in one form or another. In many other ways these animals and birds are slave to the superior human species.<SUP>3</SUP>[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]17.[/B] Eating and drinking are pure acts. However, the Adi Granth code of conduct places restrictions on the consumption of those substances which humans have manifested as desires that either harm the human body or cause grief.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]18.[/B] Humans have treated meat as a part of their diet since ancient times.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Even today there are several peoples on this earth whose primary diet consists of animals, birds, and fish.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]19.[/B] All living things - including lentils, vegatable oils, insects, micro-organisms, animals, and birds - possess equivalent life.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Our merciful behavior toward animals and birds should include every effort toward attention to their diet and comfort, protection from their mistreatment as beasts of burden, offering relief from pain and suffering.<SUP>4</SUP>[/FONT] [FONT=times]Whenever treatment is not feasible, it is merciful to assist helpless animals by sparing them pain and discomfort by ending their life swiftly via a blow to the head, electricity, etc.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]20.[/B] No faith founder has campaigned against the trade of millions of pounds of meat, fish, and eggs - trade in non-vegetarian commodities continues just as seamlessly as trade in grains.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Since ancients times animals and birds have been cultivated and harvested for trade just like crops.[/FONT] [FONT=times][B]Conclusion:[/B][/FONT] [FONT=times]Therefore, to raise issues pertaining to vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism is sheer foolishness.[/FONT] [FONT=times]The decision regarding whether or not to consume non-vegetarian diet should be upto each individual.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Neither does one become sinful by consuming meat nor does one become pious by renouncing meat.[/FONT] [FONT=times]The Adi Granth, which embodies the spirit of Guru Nanak, does not attempt to define restrictions pertaining to religious duties and horoscopes?.[/FONT] [FONT=times]Let us not distort the true import of the following verse from our Guru:[/FONT] [FONT=times]'Fools argue about flesh and meat but know little about meditation and spiritual wisdom.' [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289][/FONT] [FONT=times]'Which is meat? Which is spinach? Which is sinful?' [Guru Nanak, Adi Granth, p. 1289][/FONT] [URL]http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_090803a.html[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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