☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="BhagatSingh" data-source="post: 164706" data-attributes="member: 2610"><p>Randip Singh ji,</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes I do that part-time :interestedmunda:</p><p></p><p>What is an excellent sage? One who knows the divine order? But your definition of divine order in no different to the natural order of things. Are you saying that the divine order is the same as the natural order?</p><p></p><p>People think different things, but we should listen to the divine order expressed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Guru Nanak Dev ji is talking about human attachment in the shabad. I tell you these authors are pretty horrible at interpreting shabads. Then they accuse the original translators of doing it wrong. It's like Ulta chor kotwal ko dante</p><p></p><p>But it is probably true that plant feels some level of suffering. I am saying what animals ( and humans) experience is much greater in magnitude because they have a (higher) consciousness. Imagine a volume knob of sin, pain and suffering rather than on and off switches. Instead of black and white, imagine shades of grey.</p><p></p><p>What Punjabi Espada ji keeps brining up then is very relevant to the thread. In modern factory farming, not only is there suffering created by killing the animal but also while the animal is alive. It's hell for the animal. Kabir ji is strictly speaking about the former kind but it is very much related to the latter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Naiga dewalf, dewalf and dewalf... nope didn't work.</p><p>Saying it three times doesn't make it so. Not even when you say it backwards.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Animal sacrifice to God is adharam not because something is being offered to God (which is a good thing, it is Dharam) but because something is illegitimately being offered to God. Life that is not yours is being taken away from who it belongs, the animal, then offered to God. THAT is unrighteous. When talking about animal sacrifice he says "You murder living things and worship lifeless things, you will feel immense pain in the end." 332</p><p></p><p>To the Pandit he says, If it is righteous to kill animal for worship then what is unrigheous. If you call yourself a sage because you kill living things, then who would call a butcher? Kabir ji is comparing the pandit to a butcher, to what he considers an unrighteous profession.</p><p></p><p>In contrast, when you offer your own possesssions and life to God that is righteous (pg 20, 28, 31, and so on). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is the invasion of Timur unrighteous?</p><p></p><p></p><p>We follow those teachings laid out in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, whether they be Vaishnav of Sufi.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Oh right because slaughter is not killing? </span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Kabir ji is against ritual slaughter because it involves killing animals. Otherwise he would not criticize pandits, who he compared to a butcher. A butcher does not do a ritual slaughter nor slaughters an animal and offers it to God, he simply slaughters the animal, and sells the meat.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">हेरा रोटी कारने गला कटावै कउनु ॥१८८॥</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Herā rotī kārne galā katāvai ka▫un. ||188|</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Wrong. Hayra means "meat obtained from a hunt". Hayra roti means "roti with meat". Check your dictionary.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Jesus, that essay is messed up. Stop posting it everywhere, especially when I have shown it to be wrong. Put forth your own understanding and discuss what <strong>you </strong>think Gurbani is talking about. Stop using the essay as a crutch. It's a broken one. If anything we should be fixing that essay so it is at least accurate when it comes to gurbani interpretaions and gurmukhi words.</span></span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BhagatSingh, post: 164706, member: 2610"] Randip Singh ji, Yes I do that part-time :interestedmunda: What is an excellent sage? One who knows the divine order? But your definition of divine order in no different to the natural order of things. Are you saying that the divine order is the same as the natural order? People think different things, but we should listen to the divine order expressed in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Nanak Dev ji is talking about human attachment in the shabad. I tell you these authors are pretty horrible at interpreting shabads. Then they accuse the original translators of doing it wrong. It's like Ulta chor kotwal ko dante But it is probably true that plant feels some level of suffering. I am saying what animals ( and humans) experience is much greater in magnitude because they have a (higher) consciousness. Imagine a volume knob of sin, pain and suffering rather than on and off switches. Instead of black and white, imagine shades of grey. What Punjabi Espada ji keeps brining up then is very relevant to the thread. In modern factory farming, not only is there suffering created by killing the animal but also while the animal is alive. It's hell for the animal. Kabir ji is strictly speaking about the former kind but it is very much related to the latter. Naiga dewalf, dewalf and dewalf... nope didn't work. Saying it three times doesn't make it so. Not even when you say it backwards. Animal sacrifice to God is adharam not because something is being offered to God (which is a good thing, it is Dharam) but because something is illegitimately being offered to God. Life that is not yours is being taken away from who it belongs, the animal, then offered to God. THAT is unrighteous. When talking about animal sacrifice he says "You murder living things and worship lifeless things, you will feel immense pain in the end." 332 To the Pandit he says, If it is righteous to kill animal for worship then what is unrigheous. If you call yourself a sage because you kill living things, then who would call a butcher? Kabir ji is comparing the pandit to a butcher, to what he considers an unrighteous profession. In contrast, when you offer your own possesssions and life to God that is righteous (pg 20, 28, 31, and so on). Why is the invasion of Timur unrighteous? We follow those teachings laid out in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, whether they be Vaishnav of Sufi. [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial] Oh right because slaughter is not killing? Kabir ji is against ritual slaughter because it involves killing animals. Otherwise he would not criticize pandits, who he compared to a butcher. A butcher does not do a ritual slaughter nor slaughters an animal and offers it to God, he simply slaughters the animal, and sells the meat. [COLOR=black][FONT=Arial] ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥ हेरा रोटी कारने गला कटावै कउनु ॥१८८॥ Herā rotī kārne galā katāvai ka▫un. ||188| Wrong. Hayra means "meat obtained from a hunt". Hayra roti means "roti with meat". Check your dictionary. Jesus, that essay is messed up. Stop posting it everywhere, especially when I have shown it to be wrong. Put forth your own understanding and discuss what [B]you [/B]think Gurbani is talking about. Stop using the essay as a crutch. It's a broken one. If anything we should be fixing that essay so it is at least accurate when it comes to gurbani interpretaions and gurmukhi words.[/font][/color][/font][/color] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top