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ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
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<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 160491" data-attributes="member: 586"><p>Amarjit ji,</p><p></p><p>You may have not read the views that I’ve expressed in this matter, so I’ll repeat them here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But we do need to send out a message that is in line with the truth. If we want to make a statement about the wrongness of killing, we should not bring eating and not eating meat into the picture, otherwise it confuses the issue. And when the other person hears this, he reacts by making a similar mistake of associating the morally neutral act of eating meat with condoning killing animals for food. The result is both parties has found an excuse to continue with their own ignorance and attachments. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So compassion arises with the perception of a ‘suffering being’. And this does not have to come from hearing any cry, but one can see that like us, even an ant has volition and reacts with attachment to pleasant experiences and with aversion to unpleasant ones. The result of this is disinclination to harming any animal, not to speak of killing them for food. And if and when you see someone else killing some animal, you will act accordingly. </p><p></p><p>To decide to become a vegetarian however, this does not involve the perception of any suffering being, except in one’s own proliferated thoughts. One’s mind goes off into stories about someone else having killed the animal and that by not eating meat; one is indirectly stopping those people from killing in the future. This is being lost in the past and future as against understanding the truth now. Indeed it is just a game one plays with oneself one evidence of which is the fact that no attempt is ever made to educate those other people about the harm of killing. So really, all this is just about the “me” and its ideals. </p><p></p><p>What might also be noted is that rather than any real compassion towards the animal, it is in fact aversion or pity that we have, and this is why we end up usually having aversion towards those who kill, instead of kindness or compassion. Watching a YouTube video showing these acts by other people then becomes just more fuel for ego which thinks how good “I” am and how bad “they” are. </p><p></p><p>It takes discriminative wisdom to think correctly about such things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again this is very unhelpful, in fact misleading. </p><p></p><p>While thinking in terms of intentions, feelings, perception etc. is based on one’s own everyday experiences, aura and vibrations on the other hand are ideas we hear about and believe in, but which is and will remain only as abstractions. Talking about them as though they are real and form part of experience will therefore only lead to more ignorance instead of any understanding. Indeed it is because of the ignorance and attachment to such ideas that thoughts such as you express above and below come to be entertained.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankar, *these* are the realities of our lives and this is what you should be talking in terms of and not choice of food!!</p><p></p><p>We can see for example, that lobh can arise towards any object at all. We can also see that when it does, the tendency to lobh increases. So really it is lobh towards the taste which is what we should note and not the food itself. </p><p></p><p>Do you think a vegetarian has less attachment to the taste of his food than a non-vegetarian? Of course not! In my experience I see equal fussiness if not more in a vegetarian with regard to what he gets to eat when compared to a meat eater. And while the latter can begin to see that indeed he is attached to food, what chance is there for the former to acknowledge his attachments when he is in fact blinded by the belief that in the very act of being a vegetarian, he is developing purity of mind? Very little, I’d think. Indeed the vegetarian is paving the way for ever more delusion given his mistaken sense of morality. And in expressing his ideas he is encouraging in the other person, what should not be considered while taking him further away from what should be given due consideration. And this is like the blind leading the blind, which is very bad karma indeed. (I point this out only to remind you, since you say that you do believe in karma.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry to disappoint, but this is nonsense.</p><p>Purity has nothing to do with our physical body and it has nothing to do with the food we eat. Purity of mind has to do with developing *mental* qualities such as kindness, giving, moral restraint, compassion, detachment and wisdom. If you believe that one becomes pure by virtue of what is eaten, then this must be the function of ignorance and wrong understanding and it is these that you get more and more of along with any lobh and ahankar that must necessarily also be involved. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean right now when there is lobh, it is permeating my body, and when I have krodh, the same also happens? And if I ate meat of a dead lion I’d become aggressive by virtue of meat more than any aversion that I have accumulated from the past? What if I ate the meat of an enlightened person who dies with equanimity, would that not make me receive the good qualities that formed part of his experiences? And if I receive the “bad” from meat because this came from a sentient being, how does eating a vegetable make me pure when plants are not sentient beings?</p><p></p><p>Do you see where all this is going?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The mistake is in your own appeal to such kind of experiences. It neither adds nor clarifies anything, but in fact muddles and misleads.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Killing can be humane, but this is because “humane or not” are values put forward by those who lack any understanding about morality. Wrong is wrong by virtue of the very nature of the mental state involved and not because it is placed against some arbitrary set of values. Killing is wrong period, because there can never be kindness or any other good quality involved in the act. </p><p></p><p>Eating on the other hand however, is motivated at most by attachment to taste. How is this morally wrong? How is eating meat in the the same category as killing, lying, stealing and adultery?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 160491, member: 586"] Amarjit ji, You may have not read the views that I’ve expressed in this matter, so I’ll repeat them here. But we do need to send out a message that is in line with the truth. If we want to make a statement about the wrongness of killing, we should not bring eating and not eating meat into the picture, otherwise it confuses the issue. And when the other person hears this, he reacts by making a similar mistake of associating the morally neutral act of eating meat with condoning killing animals for food. The result is both parties has found an excuse to continue with their own ignorance and attachments. So compassion arises with the perception of a ‘suffering being’. And this does not have to come from hearing any cry, but one can see that like us, even an ant has volition and reacts with attachment to pleasant experiences and with aversion to unpleasant ones. The result of this is disinclination to harming any animal, not to speak of killing them for food. And if and when you see someone else killing some animal, you will act accordingly. To decide to become a vegetarian however, this does not involve the perception of any suffering being, except in one’s own proliferated thoughts. One’s mind goes off into stories about someone else having killed the animal and that by not eating meat; one is indirectly stopping those people from killing in the future. This is being lost in the past and future as against understanding the truth now. Indeed it is just a game one plays with oneself one evidence of which is the fact that no attempt is ever made to educate those other people about the harm of killing. So really, all this is just about the “me” and its ideals. What might also be noted is that rather than any real compassion towards the animal, it is in fact aversion or pity that we have, and this is why we end up usually having aversion towards those who kill, instead of kindness or compassion. Watching a YouTube video showing these acts by other people then becomes just more fuel for ego which thinks how good “I” am and how bad “they” are. It takes discriminative wisdom to think correctly about such things. Again this is very unhelpful, in fact misleading. While thinking in terms of intentions, feelings, perception etc. is based on one’s own everyday experiences, aura and vibrations on the other hand are ideas we hear about and believe in, but which is and will remain only as abstractions. Talking about them as though they are real and form part of experience will therefore only lead to more ignorance instead of any understanding. Indeed it is because of the ignorance and attachment to such ideas that thoughts such as you express above and below come to be entertained. Yes, Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankar, *these* are the realities of our lives and this is what you should be talking in terms of and not choice of food!! We can see for example, that lobh can arise towards any object at all. We can also see that when it does, the tendency to lobh increases. So really it is lobh towards the taste which is what we should note and not the food itself. Do you think a vegetarian has less attachment to the taste of his food than a non-vegetarian? Of course not! In my experience I see equal fussiness if not more in a vegetarian with regard to what he gets to eat when compared to a meat eater. And while the latter can begin to see that indeed he is attached to food, what chance is there for the former to acknowledge his attachments when he is in fact blinded by the belief that in the very act of being a vegetarian, he is developing purity of mind? Very little, I’d think. Indeed the vegetarian is paving the way for ever more delusion given his mistaken sense of morality. And in expressing his ideas he is encouraging in the other person, what should not be considered while taking him further away from what should be given due consideration. And this is like the blind leading the blind, which is very bad karma indeed. (I point this out only to remind you, since you say that you do believe in karma.) Sorry to disappoint, but this is nonsense. Purity has nothing to do with our physical body and it has nothing to do with the food we eat. Purity of mind has to do with developing *mental* qualities such as kindness, giving, moral restraint, compassion, detachment and wisdom. If you believe that one becomes pure by virtue of what is eaten, then this must be the function of ignorance and wrong understanding and it is these that you get more and more of along with any lobh and ahankar that must necessarily also be involved. You mean right now when there is lobh, it is permeating my body, and when I have krodh, the same also happens? And if I ate meat of a dead lion I’d become aggressive by virtue of meat more than any aversion that I have accumulated from the past? What if I ate the meat of an enlightened person who dies with equanimity, would that not make me receive the good qualities that formed part of his experiences? And if I receive the “bad” from meat because this came from a sentient being, how does eating a vegetable make me pure when plants are not sentient beings? Do you see where all this is going? The mistake is in your own appeal to such kind of experiences. It neither adds nor clarifies anything, but in fact muddles and misleads. Killing can be humane, but this is because “humane or not” are values put forward by those who lack any understanding about morality. Wrong is wrong by virtue of the very nature of the mental state involved and not because it is placed against some arbitrary set of values. Killing is wrong period, because there can never be kindness or any other good quality involved in the act. Eating on the other hand however, is motivated at most by attachment to taste. How is this morally wrong? How is eating meat in the the same category as killing, lying, stealing and adultery? [/QUOTE]
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