☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Archived_member14" data-source="post: 147051" data-attributes="member: 586"><p><strong>Re: Dairy prodcuts & Sikhism?</strong></p><p></p><p>13800038 ji,</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I thought Randip ji's response was good, although that was before I read his comments in later messages.....</p><p></p><p>But now I would like to talk with you. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What you have been suggesting is that the moral quality of an action changes with change in background information. For example in this particular case of "drinking milk", the rightness and wrongness of the act is different in each of the following cases:</p><p></p><p>1. Not knowing what it is (as in the case of an infant).</p><p>2. Knowing that it is milk, but no knowledge about where it comes from (a child).</p><p>3. Knowing that it is from a cow but with no idea about the fact that it was meant for the calf.</p><p>4. Knowing that it is intended for the calf, but thinking that what you got is what is "extra".</p><p>5. Knowing that the calf was deprived of milk just so that you could drink it.</p><p>6. Knowing that the cow and the calf were subject to bad conditions in the process of getting the milk for you.</p><p>7. Knowing that these things generally happen, but no way of knowing for sure whether the milk you are drinking has the same history.</p><p>8. Getting to drink the milk you believe has gone through the correct procedure.</p><p></p><p>But really, does anyone ever think beyond "milk", plain, sweet, chocolate flavour etc. or perhaps compare with tea, coffee and so on, whether one likes it or not and whether it is good or bad for health?</p><p></p><p>And why should they?</p><p>Eating food is eating food, and although this is mostly done with greed, it however is a necessary activity for maintenance and continuance of life, in which case there can in fact be understanding about it. But although it can't be expected that anyone today will have such level of understanding where food is then seen as a kind of medicine, still it must be an innocent activity for everyone is it not? After all, drinking milk is neither killing, lying nor stealing, or do you think that it is?</p><p></p><p>You make a link between one person's evil actions with another's innocent one. But know that this very activity of yours is itself wrong, and how so? This is because you are in effect encouraging wrong understanding and wrong thinking about one's experience. Instead of leading someone to understand what the reality is there and then, in placing value in thoughts about the past, projecting this into the present with an implication of what the future may bring, is leading others in the wrong direction. And this is a form of evil of a high category.</p><p></p><p>After watching the video, instead of trying to show what is right and what is wrong to those who consume milk, why not the urgency to try and talk sense into those other people who were involved directly, with the bad treatment of the cows? Of course, I wouldn't encourage you to do this, since I'm quite sure that they wouldn't listen to you. However, I believe that your mistake is that although you do have some idea that causing distress to animals is morally wrong, the understanding is only very vague.</p><p></p><p>Had your understanding been deeper and the reference was to the quality of mind itself and the associated intention, you'd know to separate the act of drinking and eating food from that of moral / immoral actions performed at other times. Let alone linking one person's actions with that of another, you'd know not to link the two kinds of actions even with reference to one individual alone. If I kill to eat, the killing is no doubt wrong, however even this won't make my eating on a later occasion any different from say, my eating the same meat in a restaurant. In short, beef is not cow and eating is not killing.</p><p></p><p>I'll leave the rest of your message without commenting except that what you've written is what I consider "thought proliferation" conditioned by attachment and wrong understanding. And this is yet more evidence as to to the greater evil of "wrong understanding", namely that it leads to much perversion of perception and wrong thinking which then conditions accordingly, the behaviour through body, speech and mind.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Archived_member14, post: 147051, member: 586"] [B]Re: Dairy prodcuts & Sikhism?[/B] 13800038 ji, I thought Randip ji's response was good, although that was before I read his comments in later messages..... But now I would like to talk with you. What you have been suggesting is that the moral quality of an action changes with change in background information. For example in this particular case of "drinking milk", the rightness and wrongness of the act is different in each of the following cases: 1. Not knowing what it is (as in the case of an infant). 2. Knowing that it is milk, but no knowledge about where it comes from (a child). 3. Knowing that it is from a cow but with no idea about the fact that it was meant for the calf. 4. Knowing that it is intended for the calf, but thinking that what you got is what is "extra". 5. Knowing that the calf was deprived of milk just so that you could drink it. 6. Knowing that the cow and the calf were subject to bad conditions in the process of getting the milk for you. 7. Knowing that these things generally happen, but no way of knowing for sure whether the milk you are drinking has the same history. 8. Getting to drink the milk you believe has gone through the correct procedure. But really, does anyone ever think beyond "milk", plain, sweet, chocolate flavour etc. or perhaps compare with tea, coffee and so on, whether one likes it or not and whether it is good or bad for health? And why should they? Eating food is eating food, and although this is mostly done with greed, it however is a necessary activity for maintenance and continuance of life, in which case there can in fact be understanding about it. But although it can't be expected that anyone today will have such level of understanding where food is then seen as a kind of medicine, still it must be an innocent activity for everyone is it not? After all, drinking milk is neither killing, lying nor stealing, or do you think that it is? You make a link between one person's evil actions with another's innocent one. But know that this very activity of yours is itself wrong, and how so? This is because you are in effect encouraging wrong understanding and wrong thinking about one's experience. Instead of leading someone to understand what the reality is there and then, in placing value in thoughts about the past, projecting this into the present with an implication of what the future may bring, is leading others in the wrong direction. And this is a form of evil of a high category. After watching the video, instead of trying to show what is right and what is wrong to those who consume milk, why not the urgency to try and talk sense into those other people who were involved directly, with the bad treatment of the cows? Of course, I wouldn't encourage you to do this, since I'm quite sure that they wouldn't listen to you. However, I believe that your mistake is that although you do have some idea that causing distress to animals is morally wrong, the understanding is only very vague. Had your understanding been deeper and the reference was to the quality of mind itself and the associated intention, you'd know to separate the act of drinking and eating food from that of moral / immoral actions performed at other times. Let alone linking one person's actions with that of another, you'd know not to link the two kinds of actions even with reference to one individual alone. If I kill to eat, the killing is no doubt wrong, however even this won't make my eating on a later occasion any different from say, my eating the same meat in a restaurant. In short, beef is not cow and eating is not killing. I'll leave the rest of your message without commenting except that what you've written is what I consider "thought proliferation" conditioned by attachment and wrong understanding. And this is yet more evidence as to to the greater evil of "wrong understanding", namely that it leads to much perversion of perception and wrong thinking which then conditions accordingly, the behaviour through body, speech and mind. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Sikh Sikhi Sikhism
Fools Who Wrangle Over Flesh
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top