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Gurbani (1352-53)
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Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
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Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
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Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
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Evolution And God
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<blockquote data-quote="angrisha" data-source="post: 188583" data-attributes="member: 12238"><p>Tejwant Singh Ji</p><p></p><p>This topic to me is an very interesting one, being a part of the scientific community it is one that at some point in the past I have had to deal with. So Im going to attempt to give my take on your question</p><p></p><p>I believe greatly in intelligent design, beyond simple evolution. The truth is there is so much about the universe that we don't know. It is estimated that we only really understand 4% of the known universe (I also always found it interesting that's really how much we understand about the human mind). But, when you take a look at just the world around us and how perfectly everything seems to fit together its hard to believe that through natural selection alone we would have gotten this far. There are organisms which fit every known (and unknown) niche. So, I think the process of evolution fits into intelligent design... the starting point of Earth as we know it, its a very specific set of circumstances which allowed us to be here today. Every single organism, and living and non-living entity is essentially made up of all of the same molecules with different combinations. So to me, I think that the chances of this happening by 'chance' or evolution alone is hard to completely grasp. </p><p></p><p>The work in string theory and some other ones these days are challenging what we know about the universe. In addition, there' a theory that I read lately about multiple bangs, not just one.. which would mean that our 'big bang' might have been apart of a series of other bangs.... so the idea of multiple 'universes' arises. The point being, we dont really ever know anything for certain (scientifically) </p><p></p><p>(Im really not sure if that answered any question you asked, im going to have to think on this more?)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Im not sure why one must imply the other? I think, for me intelligent design or universal intelligence is something beyond my own understanding. Thus it is more intelligent that my mind is capable of understanding, with its limitations (Kant says we are incapable of understanding the universe because we are incapable of moving past our own perspectives)... so if there is must be a dumb design, it must be one that we humans have decided to make ourselves? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It depends how you choose to look at Creationism.. now forgive me if I'm wrong in any of the following....</p><p></p><p>Creationism, being born and raised in the west has always sorta been associated in my mind with the biblical explanation of the world being created in 7 days. Where, "God" literally created everything that we see. This idea ive always had a problem with for many reasons, which can essentially be its own thread so I will not get into it here....</p><p></p><p>If we go beyond that idea, there is another idea of abundance that comes forth. My understanding of this is that, the universe or or 'God' is so vast and so plentiful, life couldn't help but be created through him. </p><p></p><p>Most eastern traditions, including our own do not give such detailed explanation of creation. </p><p></p><p>Here are couple quick examples (Page 937) SSGS:</p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਜੰਤ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%89%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਉਪਾਇ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਵਿਚਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਪਾਇਅਨੁ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਕਰਤਾ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਅਲਗੁ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਅਪਾਰੁ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">੪੯[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Janṯ upā▫e vicẖ pā▫i▫an karṯā alag apār. ||49||[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">Forming His creatures, He placed Himself within them; the Creator is unattached and infinite. ||49|[/FONT]</span></p><p></p><p></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8D%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9F%E0%A9%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੇ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%89" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਭੇਉ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਨ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਜਾਣੈ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਕੋਇ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Sariste bẖe▫o na jāṇai ko▫e.[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">No one knows the mystery of the Creator of the World[/FONT]</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>And page 297 </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਆਪਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਾਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਧਾਰੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਭ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਾਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Āp sācẖ ḏẖārī sabẖ sācẖ.[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">He Himself is True, and all that He has established is True.[/FONT]</span></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%93%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਓਤਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਪੋਤਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਆਪਨ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸੰਗਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਰਾਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Oṯ poṯ āpan sang rācẖ.[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">Through and through, He is blended with His creation.[/FONT]</span></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਤਾ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਕੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਗਤਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਮਿਤਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਕਹੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਨ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਜਾਇ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Ŧā kī gaṯ miṯ kahī na jā▫e.[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">His state and extent cannot be described.[/FONT]</span></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%B0" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਦੂਸਰ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਹੋਇ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਤ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%9D%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸੋਝੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਪਾਇ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Ḏūsar ho▫e ṯa sojẖī pā▫e.[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">If there were another like Him, then only he could understand Him.[/FONT]</span></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Creationism, is more deterministically set... in the sense that something handcrafted or created life...</p><p></p><p>Evolution and natural selection leaves more up to chance. Now the theory of evolution doesn't necessarily explain how life first began, which is why there is room for creationism or science and religion to meet. </p><p></p><p>But evolution is based on pressures external on an organisms, thus in within a certain population with a given amount of genetic diversity (not enough genetic diversity can actually be detrimental to evolution, as there is less resistance to certain external factors like disease) certain traits will be desirable and will allow for certain organisms within that population to thrive. Those animals which have the correct genetic make up, or traits will have the change to reproduce and form more offspring with that specific trait.... through generations this trait becomes favorable.... and this continues on to the point where new species are formed all together...</p><p></p><p>Now evolution is slow process and there are many other factors involved. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Theory, because there is no way to fully prove evolution at this point. We can artificially select specific traits, but we cannot naturally see them occurring </p><p></p><p>Not so much facts but developmental milestones given the correct conditions.... Lot of this has to do with our environment...</p><p></p><p>Babies who are malnourished will not have the muscle tone to learn how to walk. By about 1 year, babies have to be strong enough to actually be able to do this. Same thing with talking, talking is learned. There are many studies that show if we are not stimulated at an early age we will not learn how to talk. Babies will make babbling noises which we select and enforce through conditioning for them to learn language and for their brains to develop. This will not occur if they are not exposed before the age 1. These are not give-ins, external environment plays a huge role. </p><p></p><p>Understanding/learning/relearning etc. are all traits that we have to train to achieve. Understanding anything, from reading a book or how to put something together takes studying... so again it comes to us externally or internally cultivating these habits. Yes we 'evolve' as we grow, but only as much as we are pushed to. Placed in different environments we as humans are very adaptable and can learn almost anything.... however same is true with out that external stimulus we don't necessarily have to evolve in any way. </p><p></p><p>I think I partly answered that above, there is no set 'creation' plan. But rather the idea that the creator or the universal being has always been present (Japji Sahib): </p><p></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਆਦਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਜੁਗਾਦਿ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.[/FONT]</span></p><p> <span style="color: maroon"><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%88" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਹੈ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਭੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%95" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਨਾਨਕ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਹੋਸੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਭੀ[/FONT]</span></a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue">ਸਚੁ[/FONT]</span></a>[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">॥[/FONT]</span><span style="color: maroon">੧॥[/FONT]</span></p><p> Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||[/FONT]</p><p> <span style="color: navy">True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||[/FONT]</span></p><p> </p><p>I will probably need to get back to this question after thinking an reading a bit more on it. </p><p></p><p>7. What is your personal opinion about #6? Please elaborate.</p><p></p><p>I think it depends on how you choose to interpret both... Religion has room for evolution, i'm not sure if Evolution has room for religion. In the sense, that how evolution works can very much be apart of intelligent design and I choose to believe that it very much is. Its not a coincidence with the amount of diversity of life that we see on this planet, its hard to believe that only by chance did all of the organisms really come to be. Thus the idea of evolution and natural selection, can fit into intelligent design.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="angrisha, post: 188583, member: 12238"] Tejwant Singh Ji This topic to me is an very interesting one, being a part of the scientific community it is one that at some point in the past I have had to deal with. So Im going to attempt to give my take on your question I believe greatly in intelligent design, beyond simple evolution. The truth is there is so much about the universe that we don't know. It is estimated that we only really understand 4% of the known universe (I also always found it interesting that's really how much we understand about the human mind). But, when you take a look at just the world around us and how perfectly everything seems to fit together its hard to believe that through natural selection alone we would have gotten this far. There are organisms which fit every known (and unknown) niche. So, I think the process of evolution fits into intelligent design... the starting point of Earth as we know it, its a very specific set of circumstances which allowed us to be here today. Every single organism, and living and non-living entity is essentially made up of all of the same molecules with different combinations. So to me, I think that the chances of this happening by 'chance' or evolution alone is hard to completely grasp. The work in string theory and some other ones these days are challenging what we know about the universe. In addition, there' a theory that I read lately about multiple bangs, not just one.. which would mean that our 'big bang' might have been apart of a series of other bangs.... so the idea of multiple 'universes' arises. The point being, we dont really ever know anything for certain (scientifically) (Im really not sure if that answered any question you asked, im going to have to think on this more?) Im not sure why one must imply the other? I think, for me intelligent design or universal intelligence is something beyond my own understanding. Thus it is more intelligent that my mind is capable of understanding, with its limitations (Kant says we are incapable of understanding the universe because we are incapable of moving past our own perspectives)... so if there is must be a dumb design, it must be one that we humans have decided to make ourselves? It depends how you choose to look at Creationism.. now forgive me if I'm wrong in any of the following.... Creationism, being born and raised in the west has always sorta been associated in my mind with the biblical explanation of the world being created in 7 days. Where, "God" literally created everything that we see. This idea ive always had a problem with for many reasons, which can essentially be its own thread so I will not get into it here.... If we go beyond that idea, there is another idea of abundance that comes forth. My understanding of this is that, the universe or or 'God' is so vast and so plentiful, life couldn't help but be created through him. Most eastern traditions, including our own do not give such detailed explanation of creation. Here are couple quick examples (Page 937) SSGS: [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%A4"][COLOR=blue]ਜੰਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%89%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"][COLOR=blue]ਉਪਾਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B5%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%9A%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਵਿਚਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%A8%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਪਾਇਅਨੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE"][COLOR=blue]ਕਰਤਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%B2%E0%A8%97%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਅਲਗੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%85%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਅਪਾਰੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]੪੯[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Janṯ upā▫e vicẖ pā▫i▫an karṯā alag apār. ||49||[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]Forming His creatures, He placed Himself within them; the Creator is unattached and infinite. ||49|[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8D%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9F%E0%A9%87"][COLOR=blue]ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%87%E0%A8%89"][COLOR=blue]ਭੇਉ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][COLOR=blue]ਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A3%E0%A9%88"][COLOR=blue]ਜਾਣੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87"][COLOR=blue]ਕੋਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Sariste bẖe▫o na jāṇai ko▫e.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]No one knows the mystery of the Creator of the World[/FONT][/COLOR] And page 297 [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਆਪਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਸਾਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A7%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%B0%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਧਾਰੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AD"][COLOR=blue]ਸਭ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਸਾਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Āp sācẖ ḏẖārī sabẖ sācẖ.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]He Himself is True, and all that He has established is True.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%93%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਓਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਪੋਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%A8"][COLOR=blue]ਆਪਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%B0%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਸੰਗਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B0%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਰਾਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Oṯ poṯ āpan sang rācẖ.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]Through and through, He is blended with His creation.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BE"][COLOR=blue]ਤਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਕੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਗਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BF%E0%A8%A4%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਮਿਤਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%95%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਕਹੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8"][COLOR=blue]ਨ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"][COLOR=blue]ਜਾਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Ŧā kī gaṯ miṯ kahī na jā▫e.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]His state and extent cannot be described.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A6%E0%A9%82%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%B0"][COLOR=blue]ਦੂਸਰ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%87"][COLOR=blue]ਹੋਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A4"][COLOR=blue]ਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%9D%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਸੋਝੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AA%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%87"][COLOR=blue]ਪਾਇ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Ḏūsar ho▫e ṯa sojẖī pā▫e.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]If there were another like Him, then only he could understand Him.[/FONT][/COLOR] Creationism, is more deterministically set... in the sense that something handcrafted or created life... Evolution and natural selection leaves more up to chance. Now the theory of evolution doesn't necessarily explain how life first began, which is why there is room for creationism or science and religion to meet. But evolution is based on pressures external on an organisms, thus in within a certain population with a given amount of genetic diversity (not enough genetic diversity can actually be detrimental to evolution, as there is less resistance to certain external factors like disease) certain traits will be desirable and will allow for certain organisms within that population to thrive. Those animals which have the correct genetic make up, or traits will have the change to reproduce and form more offspring with that specific trait.... through generations this trait becomes favorable.... and this continues on to the point where new species are formed all together... Now evolution is slow process and there are many other factors involved. Theory, because there is no way to fully prove evolution at this point. We can artificially select specific traits, but we cannot naturally see them occurring Not so much facts but developmental milestones given the correct conditions.... Lot of this has to do with our environment... Babies who are malnourished will not have the muscle tone to learn how to walk. By about 1 year, babies have to be strong enough to actually be able to do this. Same thing with talking, talking is learned. There are many studies that show if we are not stimulated at an early age we will not learn how to talk. Babies will make babbling noises which we select and enforce through conditioning for them to learn language and for their brains to develop. This will not occur if they are not exposed before the age 1. These are not give-ins, external environment plays a huge role. Understanding/learning/relearning etc. are all traits that we have to train to achieve. Understanding anything, from reading a book or how to put something together takes studying... so again it comes to us externally or internally cultivating these habits. Yes we 'evolve' as we grow, but only as much as we are pushed to. Placed in different environments we as humans are very adaptable and can learn almost anything.... however same is true with out that external stimulus we don't necessarily have to evolve in any way. I think I partly answered that above, there is no set 'creation' plan. But rather the idea that the creator or the universal being has always been present (Japji Sahib): [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%86%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਆਦਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਸਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%9C%E0%A9%81%E0%A8%97%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A6%E0%A8%BF"][COLOR=blue]ਜੁਗਾਦਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਸਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Āḏ sacẖ jugāḏ sacẖ.[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=maroon][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%88"][COLOR=blue]ਹੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਭੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਸਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%E0%A8%95"][COLOR=blue]ਨਾਨਕ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B9%E0%A9%8B%E0%A8%B8%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਹੋਸੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%AD%E0%A9%80"][COLOR=blue]ਭੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][URL="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%9A%E0%A9%81"][COLOR=blue]ਸਚੁ[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=maroon]੧॥[/FONT][/COLOR] Hai bẖī sacẖ Nānak hosī bẖī sacẖ. ||1||[/FONT] [COLOR=navy]True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||[/FONT][/COLOR] I will probably need to get back to this question after thinking an reading a bit more on it. 7. What is your personal opinion about #6? Please elaborate. I think it depends on how you choose to interpret both... Religion has room for evolution, i'm not sure if Evolution has room for religion. In the sense, that how evolution works can very much be apart of intelligent design and I choose to believe that it very much is. Its not a coincidence with the amount of diversity of life that we see on this planet, its hard to believe that only by chance did all of the organisms really come to be. Thus the idea of evolution and natural selection, can fit into intelligent design. [/QUOTE]
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