☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Does God Control Everything?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="kharkoo4life" data-source="post: 22016" data-attributes="member: 1348"><p>The concept of Divine Will is not an easy concept to understand. Particularly when we try to understand it against the 'free will' we humans are granted. At first glance this seems contradictory, that if God is the doer of all then what value does our free will hold.</p><p></p><p>The Divine Will of God is something so grand and complex that it is beyond mans full understanding. The more we try to break it down and analyze it the more confused we will get. That being said, gurbani still does use some simple examples to give us hints or basic ideas of how this Divine Will vs Free Human Will works.</p><p></p><p>One of the examples often used to try and illustrate free will is that of animals kept on farms. For instance, an ox is kept tied to a tree with a rope. That ox walks around freely on the nearby pastures in whichever direction it pleases, eating whatever grass it wants all the time thinking that i am free and can do whatever i wish. It does not realize that its free will, while it indeed exists, is confined within the greater will of its master (thru the rope). The ox is only able to do as much on its own as the master permits it to. Whenever the masters wishes it can pull the ox back into line with a simple tug.</p><p></p><p>Such is the state of man as well. God has given us a certain amount of free will. To live life, to experience the joys and sorrows of this world, to make new decisions everyday on how we wish to live our life. Gods love for man is so immense that he has given man certain freedoms. IF we were kept tightly shackled to a single spot for our whole life what kind of expression of love would that be from the master? It is because of this free will of each man that each man is so unique. This is why so much variety exists in this world in terms of attitude, personality, emotions etc just like a beautiful garden with an endless variety of flowers.</p><p></p><p>But living within this free will man forgets that just like the ox his own will is finite and exists within the greater Will of God. When we get engrossed in thinking that everything we do happens by our own will, that is when we begin to experience pain in our life. When we strat thinking that it is i who studied so many hours ang got this degree, or that it is I who worked so hard and made enough money to buy this house etc. Even when it comes to the domain of religion, if we think we can walk this path on our own and achieve union with GOd by our own thoughts, actions then we are mistaken.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">AwpxY BwxY khu ikin suKu pwieAw AMDw AMDu kmweI ]</span></p><p>Tell me, who has ever found peace by following his own will? The blind act in blindness.</p><p></p><p>There is an old story of a fakir and his disciple where the disciple also confused in thinkin that free will is absolute asks his teacher, "Oh sire we are taught that we have free will then i wish to know why we are also told to follow the will of God. Am i not able to do whatever i want by the power of my own will?"</p><p></p><p>The fakir answers, "let me show you what the free will of man is". The disciple was standing so the fakir asks him to life one foot off the ground. The disciple lifts his left foot off the ground, thinking to himself, see i made the decision adn then carried it out. No one had any control over.</p><p></p><p>The fakir then tells him "now lift ur right foot off the ground, but the condition is that you can't put your other foot down while doing so." The disciple tries, but as much as he tries he is unable to lift his right foot off the ground without bringin his left back onto the ground.</p><p></p><p>This is the state of mans free will. We make one decision but as soon as we are faced with another decision we have to recant or change our previous decision so that the new one can be carried out. What kind of absolute free will is it where we cant even hold on to our previous decisions? Where we repent our eariler decisions and have to change them because they don't allow us to carry out new ones.</p><p></p><p>This is why the guru has taught us that if u wish to use your free will for anything use it to submit yourself to the will of the guru. That is why each time we mutha taik, we are saying that GuruJi, i know nothing and am capable of nothing so please take me under your guidance and show me the correct way.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">so isKu sKw bMDpu hY BweI ij gur ky Bwxy ivic AwvY ]</span></p><p>He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will. </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">AwpxY BwxY jo clY BweI ivCuiV cotw KwvY ]</span></p><p>One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished </p><p></p><p>This serves two purposes. Firstly, the will of the Guru is the same as the Will of God for the guru lives 100% in accordance to the will of God. Everythin the guru says or does is in tune with the Will of God.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, it instill a sense of humility in the Sikh. The Guru Granth Sahib begins with the question how can man come to realize God and become one with Him and the answer follows by living according to the Divine Will. This is the foundation of a Sikhs life. Now somone can easily start following His Will, they can start keepin their hair and say see i am keeping hair cuz it is Gods Will, they can adopt the five kakaar and say see i am keeping the uniform of Khalsa cuz it is the Gurus will, and so on. IN each case while they are indeed following the Will of God/Guru a sense of ego develops in their mind that look how wonderful a devotee of God i've become thru my following the Divine WIll. But the guru says, one who still holds onto even the slightest sense of "I" or "me" that person is still far from living according to Gods will.</p><p></p><p>That is why in the very next lines of Guru Granth Sahib, the guru goes on to give us some example of the absoluteness of the DIvine Will and how everything ultimately falls under it. In the very end the guru says:</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ]</span></p><p>Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]2]</span></p><p>O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. </p><p></p><p>This does not mean that we will completely be able to explain or comprehend every detailed working of His Will. For that is beyond mans comprehension. Whatit means is when a man comes to appreciate and understand the fact that no matter what he does, God is aware and present in that, that our own free will is miniscule and powerless in the face of Gods Supreme Will, that person will humbly submit himself before the LOrd and start living according to the Will of God.</p><p></p><p>He will no longer try to resists or oppose Gods will by doing things according to his own likings or preferences. He will no longer say that what happened here was bad and become angry or sad, and nor will he say what happened here was great and become ecstatic. He will accept whatever God does as good, and anything good which happens in his own life he will not take credit for it but say that it is the grace of God Himself who made it all possible.</p><p></p><p>Thru reading gurbani we should come to understand that:</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">qU krih su scy Blw hY gur sbid buJwhI ]</span></p><p>Whatever You do is good, O True Lord; this understanding is obtained through the Word of the Guru's Shabad.</p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">qU krx kwrx smrQu hY dUjw ko nwhI ]</span></p><p>You are the Cause of causes, the All-powerful Lord; there is no other at all.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniLipi'"><span style="font-size: 12px">jo ikCu kry so Blw kir mwnIAY ihkmiq hukmu cukweIAY ]</span></span></p><p>Whatever the Lord does, accept that as good; do away with your own cleverness and self-will. </p><p></p><p>And ultimately we will reach the stage where we see nothing but God and Gods doing all around us and be able to emrace it with open loving arms, just as the thousands of shaheed singhs and singhnis of the past equaly embraced the gruesome tortures they were put thru with the same smiling face as they embraced the companionship of the guru.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">PrIdw duKu suKu ieku kir idl qy lwih ivkwru ]</span></p><p>Fareed, look upon pleasure and pain as the same; eradicate corruption from your heart. </p><p><span style="font-family: 'GurbaniWebThick'">Alh BwvY so Blw qW lBI drbwru ]109]</span></p><p>Whatever pleases the Lord God is good; understand this, and you will reach His Court. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Im sure ive left a great deal unexplained for i myself am just starting to understand many of these deeper concepts within Sikhi. Hopefully others will be able to add to this and give better explanations and examples.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kharkoo4life, post: 22016, member: 1348"] The concept of Divine Will is not an easy concept to understand. Particularly when we try to understand it against the 'free will' we humans are granted. At first glance this seems contradictory, that if God is the doer of all then what value does our free will hold. The Divine Will of God is something so grand and complex that it is beyond mans full understanding. The more we try to break it down and analyze it the more confused we will get. That being said, gurbani still does use some simple examples to give us hints or basic ideas of how this Divine Will vs Free Human Will works. One of the examples often used to try and illustrate free will is that of animals kept on farms. For instance, an ox is kept tied to a tree with a rope. That ox walks around freely on the nearby pastures in whichever direction it pleases, eating whatever grass it wants all the time thinking that i am free and can do whatever i wish. It does not realize that its free will, while it indeed exists, is confined within the greater will of its master (thru the rope). The ox is only able to do as much on its own as the master permits it to. Whenever the masters wishes it can pull the ox back into line with a simple tug. Such is the state of man as well. God has given us a certain amount of free will. To live life, to experience the joys and sorrows of this world, to make new decisions everyday on how we wish to live our life. Gods love for man is so immense that he has given man certain freedoms. IF we were kept tightly shackled to a single spot for our whole life what kind of expression of love would that be from the master? It is because of this free will of each man that each man is so unique. This is why so much variety exists in this world in terms of attitude, personality, emotions etc just like a beautiful garden with an endless variety of flowers. But living within this free will man forgets that just like the ox his own will is finite and exists within the greater Will of God. When we get engrossed in thinking that everything we do happens by our own will, that is when we begin to experience pain in our life. When we strat thinking that it is i who studied so many hours ang got this degree, or that it is I who worked so hard and made enough money to buy this house etc. Even when it comes to the domain of religion, if we think we can walk this path on our own and achieve union with GOd by our own thoughts, actions then we are mistaken. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]AwpxY BwxY khu ikin suKu pwieAw AMDw AMDu kmweI ][/FONT] Tell me, who has ever found peace by following his own will? The blind act in blindness. There is an old story of a fakir and his disciple where the disciple also confused in thinkin that free will is absolute asks his teacher, "Oh sire we are taught that we have free will then i wish to know why we are also told to follow the will of God. Am i not able to do whatever i want by the power of my own will?" The fakir answers, "let me show you what the free will of man is". The disciple was standing so the fakir asks him to life one foot off the ground. The disciple lifts his left foot off the ground, thinking to himself, see i made the decision adn then carried it out. No one had any control over. The fakir then tells him "now lift ur right foot off the ground, but the condition is that you can't put your other foot down while doing so." The disciple tries, but as much as he tries he is unable to lift his right foot off the ground without bringin his left back onto the ground. This is the state of mans free will. We make one decision but as soon as we are faced with another decision we have to recant or change our previous decision so that the new one can be carried out. What kind of absolute free will is it where we cant even hold on to our previous decisions? Where we repent our eariler decisions and have to change them because they don't allow us to carry out new ones. This is why the guru has taught us that if u wish to use your free will for anything use it to submit yourself to the will of the guru. That is why each time we mutha taik, we are saying that GuruJi, i know nothing and am capable of nothing so please take me under your guidance and show me the correct way. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]so isKu sKw bMDpu hY BweI ij gur ky Bwxy ivic AwvY ][/FONT] He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]AwpxY BwxY jo clY BweI ivCuiV cotw KwvY ][/FONT] One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished This serves two purposes. Firstly, the will of the Guru is the same as the Will of God for the guru lives 100% in accordance to the will of God. Everythin the guru says or does is in tune with the Will of God. Secondly, it instill a sense of humility in the Sikh. The Guru Granth Sahib begins with the question how can man come to realize God and become one with Him and the answer follows by living according to the Divine Will. This is the foundation of a Sikhs life. Now somone can easily start following His Will, they can start keepin their hair and say see i am keeping hair cuz it is Gods Will, they can adopt the five kakaar and say see i am keeping the uniform of Khalsa cuz it is the Gurus will, and so on. IN each case while they are indeed following the Will of God/Guru a sense of ego develops in their mind that look how wonderful a devotee of God i've become thru my following the Divine WIll. But the guru says, one who still holds onto even the slightest sense of "I" or "me" that person is still far from living according to Gods will. That is why in the very next lines of Guru Granth Sahib, the guru goes on to give us some example of the absoluteness of the DIvine Will and how everything ultimately falls under it. In the very end the guru says: [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]hukmY AMdir sBu ko bwhir hukm n koie ][/FONT] Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]nwnk hukmY jy buJY q haumY khY n koie ]2][/FONT] O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. This does not mean that we will completely be able to explain or comprehend every detailed working of His Will. For that is beyond mans comprehension. Whatit means is when a man comes to appreciate and understand the fact that no matter what he does, God is aware and present in that, that our own free will is miniscule and powerless in the face of Gods Supreme Will, that person will humbly submit himself before the LOrd and start living according to the Will of God. He will no longer try to resists or oppose Gods will by doing things according to his own likings or preferences. He will no longer say that what happened here was bad and become angry or sad, and nor will he say what happened here was great and become ecstatic. He will accept whatever God does as good, and anything good which happens in his own life he will not take credit for it but say that it is the grace of God Himself who made it all possible. Thru reading gurbani we should come to understand that: [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]qU krih su scy Blw hY gur sbid buJwhI ][/FONT] Whatever You do is good, O True Lord; this understanding is obtained through the Word of the Guru's Shabad. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]qU krx kwrx smrQu hY dUjw ko nwhI ][/FONT] You are the Cause of causes, the All-powerful Lord; there is no other at all. [FONT=GurbaniLipi][SIZE=3]jo ikCu kry so Blw kir mwnIAY ihkmiq hukmu cukweIAY ][/SIZE][/FONT] Whatever the Lord does, accept that as good; do away with your own cleverness and self-will. And ultimately we will reach the stage where we see nothing but God and Gods doing all around us and be able to emrace it with open loving arms, just as the thousands of shaheed singhs and singhnis of the past equaly embraced the gruesome tortures they were put thru with the same smiling face as they embraced the companionship of the guru. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]PrIdw duKu suKu ieku kir idl qy lwih ivkwru ][/FONT] Fareed, look upon pleasure and pain as the same; eradicate corruption from your heart. [FONT=GurbaniWebThick]Alh BwvY so Blw qW lBI drbwru ]109][/FONT] Whatever pleases the Lord God is good; understand this, and you will reach His Court. Im sure ive left a great deal unexplained for i myself am just starting to understand many of these deeper concepts within Sikhi. Hopefully others will be able to add to this and give better explanations and examples. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Does God Control Everything?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top