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Gurbani (660-685)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
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Gurbani (728-750)
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Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
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ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
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Bhagat Bani (988)
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Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
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Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
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Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
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Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
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Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
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Chhant (1278)
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Gurbani (1294-96)
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Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
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Gurbani (1352-53)
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Dera Sants, Satgurus And Sikhi
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<blockquote data-quote="Sikh Namdhari" data-source="post: 45395" data-attributes="member: 2579"><p><strong>Re: Sants and Sikhi</strong></p><p></p><p>Sat-Sri Akaal to all</p><p> </p><p>Firstly, apologies to you Dal Singhji for digressing on your topic. Although we have deviated from the 'Sants' topic, this discussion has relevence to the same. If you rather not, we can stop this discussion as it seems that I am beginning to upset a lot of people here and that is not good.</p><p> </p><p>I would, however like to leave by reminding all that my aim is and always has been to clarify the Namdhari perspective on Sikhi, never to attack anyones beliefs. There is no reason to do this other than to dispel the misconceptions that one keeps reading and hearing about Namdharis.</p><p> </p><p>From all of your replies one gets the impression that you think that Namdharis don't believe in Akaal Purakh. That somehow we don't believe in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.</p><p> </p><p>From your replies one also gets the impression that some people are even relegating the first 10 Satgurus to mere mortals. You have all ignored the quotations that I have given from the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas' Vaars regarding the definition of Guru/Satguru - WHY? Look back at the threads. </p><p> </p><p>I am not looking for a reply. </p><p> </p><p>Your faith is established on the <strong>Nirgun</strong> Form of Akaal Purakh.</p><p>Namdharis hold faith in the <strong>Sargun</strong> Form of Akaal Purakh as per the instructions of Satguru Nanakdevji.</p><p> </p><p>Even if all of the Satgurus denied that they were not God incarnate, it is not the duty of us, who are not even the dust of their Charan to repeat such remarks. </p><p> </p><p>When a Satguru like Satguru Nanak Devji was asked, " Who is your Guru?" What does He reply, when He is Himself God incarnate? </p><p> </p><p>I'm not saying this from my will; '<strong>.... Aap Narain Kaladhar Jag me Parvario..'</strong> -Aadh Guru Granth Sahib</p><p> </p><p>Divan Nand Lalji, Vah! Divan Nand Lalji. Have any of you read His Kabits regarding Satguru Gobind Singhji? And this is A Sikh that Satguruji kept by His side always. I doubt if Satguruji sent him to hell!</p><p>In one of his Kabits he, regarding Guruji as God incarnate says "...in just one strand of Your Kes....both this world and the next are bound..."</p><p>If Divan Nandlalji's vision of Guru Gobind Singhji is wrong then I admit defeat at your hands Veer Dal Singhji.</p><p> </p><p>Learn about Nirgun and Sargun forms of God. This concept is present in ALL of the religions I have studied in one form or another. </p><p> </p><p>The truth about God exists in all religions, it is clouded only by ordinary mens' misconceptions. When men are removed from the presence of the Sargun manifestation of God through time or otherwise, their judgement gets clouded by maya and ego. This is proclaimed by the Sargun Swaroops who wrote the Gurbani of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. It is the Sargun form that we know as Satgur. And yes it is present in all of us, but it needs an Enlightened Soul to make us realise it. We have no power of our own. </p><p> </p><p>For all you who say "are the millions wrong who do not believe in a Living Guru? Are all the scholars wrong?"</p><p> </p><p>My brothers and sisters, Gursikhi's foundations are not built on the schools and universities of man. It's foundations are those Satgurus, Sants and Bhagats who were and are One with God. If you want to discuss Sikhi, then quote examples from the Banis of Satgurus or those whom they endorse. </p><p> </p><p>I salute your faith, but request all of you who have had this dialogue with dass to refrain and request others to refrain from vilifying anyone who believes in a Dehdhari Guru. This is not the way of Sikhi.</p><p> </p><p>May we all find peace.</p><p> </p><p>Sat-Sri Akaal, Ji</p><p></p><p>Sat-Sri Akaal to all</p><p> </p><p>Firstly, apologies to you Dal Singhji for digressing on your topic. Although we have deviated from the 'Sants' topic, this discussion has relevence to the same. If you rather not, we can stop this discussion as it seems that I am beginning to upset a lot of people here and that is not good.</p><p> </p><p>I would, however like to leave by reminding all that my aim is and always has been to clarify the Namdhari perspective on Sikhi, never to attack anyones beliefs. There is no reason to do this other than to dispel the misconceptions that one keeps reading and hearing about Namdharis.</p><p> </p><p>From all of your replies one gets the impression that you think that Namdharis don't believe in Akaal Purakh. That somehow we don't believe in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.</p><p> </p><p>From your replies one also gets the impression that some people are even relegating the first 10 Satgurus to mere mortals. You have all ignored the quotations that I have given from the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas' Vaars regarding the definition of Guru/Satguru - WHY? Look back at the threads. </p><p> </p><p>I am not looking for a reply. </p><p> </p><p>Your faith is established on the <strong>Nirgun</strong> Form of Akaal Purakh.</p><p>Namdharis hold faith in the <strong>Sargun</strong> Form of Akaal Purakh as per the instructions of Satguru Nanakdevji.</p><p> </p><p>Even if all of the Satgurus denied that they were not God incarnate, it is not the duty of us, who are not even the dust of their Charan to repeat such remarks. </p><p> </p><p>When a Satguru like Satguru Nanak Devji was asked, " Who is your Guru?" What does He reply, when He is Himself God incarnate? </p><p> </p><p>I'm not saying this from my will; '<strong>.... Aap Narain Kaladhaar Jag me Parvario..'</strong> -Aadh Guru Granth Sahib</p><p> </p><p>Divan Nand Lalji, Vah! Divan Nand Lalji. Have any of you read His Kabits regarding Satguru Gobind Singhji? And this is A Sikh that Satguruji kept by His side always. I doubt if Satguruji sent him to hell!</p><p>In one of his Kabits he, regarding Guruji as God incarnate says "...in just one strand of Your Kes....both this world and the next are bound..."</p><p>If Divan Nandlalji's vision of Guru Gobind Singhji is wrong then I admit defeat at your hands Veer Dal Singhji.</p><p> </p><p>Learn about Nirgun and Sargun forms of God. This concept is present in ALL of the religions I have studied in one form or another. </p><p> </p><p>The truth about God exists in all religions, it is clouded only by ordinary mens' misconceptions. When men are removed from the presence of the Sargun manifestation of God through time or otherwise, their judgement gets clouded by maya and ego. This is proclaimed by the Sargun Swaroops who wrote the Gurbani of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. It is the Sargun form that we know as Satgur. And yes it is present in all of us, but it needs an Enlightened Soul to make us realise it. We have no power of our own. </p><p> </p><p>For all you who say "are the millions wrong who do not believe in a Living Guru? Are all the scholars wrong?"</p><p> </p><p>My brothers and sisters, Gursikhi's foundations are not built on the schools and universities of man. It's foundations are those Satgurus, Sants and Bhagats who were and are One with God. If you want to discuss Sikhi, then quote examples from the Banis of Satgurus or those whom they endorse. </p><p> </p><p>I salute your faith, but request all of you who have had this dialogue with dass to refrain and request others to refrain from vilifying anyone who believes in a Dehdhari Guru. This is not the way of Sikhi.</p><p> </p><p>May we all find peace.</p><p> </p><p>Sat-Sri Akaal, Ji</p><p></p><p>Sat-Sri Akaal to all</p><p> </p><p>Firstly, apologies to you Dal Singhji for digressing on your topic. Although we have deviated from the 'Sants' topic, this discussion has relevence to the same. If you rather not, we can stop this discussion as it seems that I am beginning to upset a lot of people here and that is not good.</p><p> </p><p>I would, however like to leave by reminding all that my aim is and always has been to clarify the Namdhari perspective on Sikhi, never to attack anyones beliefs. There is no reason to do this other than to dispel the misconceptions that one keeps reading and hearing about Namdharis.</p><p> </p><p>From all of your replies one gets the impression that you think that Namdharis don't believe in Akaal Purakh. That somehow we don't believe in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib.</p><p> </p><p>From your replies one also gets the impression that some people are even relegating the first 10 Satgurus to mere mortals. You have all ignored the quotations that I have given from the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas' Vaars regarding the definition of Guru/Satguru - WHY? Look back at the threads. </p><p> </p><p>I am not looking for a reply. </p><p> </p><p>Your faith is established on the <strong>Nirgun</strong> Form of Akaal Purakh.</p><p>Namdharis hold faith in the <strong>Sargun</strong> Form of Akaal Purakh as per the instructions of Satguru Nanakdevji.</p><p> </p><p>Even if all of the Satgurus denied that they were not God incarnate, it is not the duty of us, who are not even the dust of their Charan to repeat such remarks. </p><p> </p><p>When a Satguru like Satguru Nanak Devji was asked, " Who is your Guru?" What does He reply, when He is Himself God incarnate? </p><p> </p><p>I'm not saying this from my will; '<strong>.... Aap Narain Kaladhaar Jag me Parvario..'</strong> -Aadh Guru Granth Sahib</p><p> </p><p>Divan Nand Lalji, Vah! Divan Nand Lalji. Have any of you read His Kabits regarding Satguru Gobind Singhji? And this is A Sikh that Satguruji kept by His side always. I doubt if Satguruji sent him to hell!</p><p>In one of his Kabits he, regarding Guruji as God incarnate says "...in just one strand of Your Kes....both this world and the next are bound..."</p><p>If Divan Nandlalji's vision of Guru Gobind Singhji is wrong then I admit defeat at your hands Veer Dal Singhji.</p><p> </p><p>Learn about Nirgun and Sargun forms of God. This concept is present in ALL of the religions I have studied in one form or another. </p><p> </p><p>The truth about God exists in all religions, it is clouded only by ordinary mens' misconceptions. When men are removed from the presence of the Sargun manifestation of God through time or otherwise, their judgement gets clouded by maya and ego. This is proclaimed by the Sargun Swaroops who wrote the Gurbani of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. It is the Sargun form that we know as Satgur. And yes it is present in all of us, but it needs an Enlightened Soul to make us realise it. We have no power of our own. </p><p> </p><p>For all you who say "are the millions wrong who do not believe in a Living Guru? Are all the scholars wrong?"</p><p> </p><p>My brothers and sisters, Gursikhi's foundations are not built on the schools and universities of man. It's foundations are those Satgurus, Sants and Bhagats who were and are One with God. If you want to discuss Sikhi, then quote examples from the Banis of Satgurus or those whom they endorse. </p><p> </p><p>I salute your faith, but request all of you who have had this dialogue with dass to refrain and request others to refrain from vilifying anyone who believes in a Dehdhari Guru. This is not the way of Sikhi.</p><p> </p><p>May we all find peace.</p><p> </p><p>Sat-Sri Akaal, Ji</p><p></p><p>Sorry about the above post. The system got jammed as I tried to rectify a spelling mistake. Please read the third Posting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sikh Namdhari, post: 45395, member: 2579"] [b]Re: Sants and Sikhi[/b] Sat-Sri Akaal to all Firstly, apologies to you Dal Singhji for digressing on your topic. Although we have deviated from the 'Sants' topic, this discussion has relevence to the same. If you rather not, we can stop this discussion as it seems that I am beginning to upset a lot of people here and that is not good. I would, however like to leave by reminding all that my aim is and always has been to clarify the Namdhari perspective on Sikhi, never to attack anyones beliefs. There is no reason to do this other than to dispel the misconceptions that one keeps reading and hearing about Namdharis. From all of your replies one gets the impression that you think that Namdharis don't believe in Akaal Purakh. That somehow we don't believe in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. From your replies one also gets the impression that some people are even relegating the first 10 Satgurus to mere mortals. You have all ignored the quotations that I have given from the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas' Vaars regarding the definition of Guru/Satguru - WHY? Look back at the threads. I am not looking for a reply. Your faith is established on the [B]Nirgun[/B] Form of Akaal Purakh. Namdharis hold faith in the [B]Sargun[/B] Form of Akaal Purakh as per the instructions of Satguru Nanakdevji. Even if all of the Satgurus denied that they were not God incarnate, it is not the duty of us, who are not even the dust of their Charan to repeat such remarks. When a Satguru like Satguru Nanak Devji was asked, " Who is your Guru?" What does He reply, when He is Himself God incarnate? I'm not saying this from my will; '[B].... Aap Narain Kaladhar Jag me Parvario..'[/B] -Aadh Guru Granth Sahib Divan Nand Lalji, Vah! Divan Nand Lalji. Have any of you read His Kabits regarding Satguru Gobind Singhji? And this is A Sikh that Satguruji kept by His side always. I doubt if Satguruji sent him to hell! In one of his Kabits he, regarding Guruji as God incarnate says "...in just one strand of Your Kes....both this world and the next are bound..." If Divan Nandlalji's vision of Guru Gobind Singhji is wrong then I admit defeat at your hands Veer Dal Singhji. Learn about Nirgun and Sargun forms of God. This concept is present in ALL of the religions I have studied in one form or another. The truth about God exists in all religions, it is clouded only by ordinary mens' misconceptions. When men are removed from the presence of the Sargun manifestation of God through time or otherwise, their judgement gets clouded by maya and ego. This is proclaimed by the Sargun Swaroops who wrote the Gurbani of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. It is the Sargun form that we know as Satgur. And yes it is present in all of us, but it needs an Enlightened Soul to make us realise it. We have no power of our own. For all you who say "are the millions wrong who do not believe in a Living Guru? Are all the scholars wrong?" My brothers and sisters, Gursikhi's foundations are not built on the schools and universities of man. It's foundations are those Satgurus, Sants and Bhagats who were and are One with God. If you want to discuss Sikhi, then quote examples from the Banis of Satgurus or those whom they endorse. I salute your faith, but request all of you who have had this dialogue with dass to refrain and request others to refrain from vilifying anyone who believes in a Dehdhari Guru. This is not the way of Sikhi. May we all find peace. Sat-Sri Akaal, Ji Sat-Sri Akaal to all Firstly, apologies to you Dal Singhji for digressing on your topic. Although we have deviated from the 'Sants' topic, this discussion has relevence to the same. If you rather not, we can stop this discussion as it seems that I am beginning to upset a lot of people here and that is not good. I would, however like to leave by reminding all that my aim is and always has been to clarify the Namdhari perspective on Sikhi, never to attack anyones beliefs. There is no reason to do this other than to dispel the misconceptions that one keeps reading and hearing about Namdharis. From all of your replies one gets the impression that you think that Namdharis don't believe in Akaal Purakh. That somehow we don't believe in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. From your replies one also gets the impression that some people are even relegating the first 10 Satgurus to mere mortals. You have all ignored the quotations that I have given from the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas' Vaars regarding the definition of Guru/Satguru - WHY? Look back at the threads. I am not looking for a reply. Your faith is established on the [B]Nirgun[/B] Form of Akaal Purakh. Namdharis hold faith in the [B]Sargun[/B] Form of Akaal Purakh as per the instructions of Satguru Nanakdevji. Even if all of the Satgurus denied that they were not God incarnate, it is not the duty of us, who are not even the dust of their Charan to repeat such remarks. When a Satguru like Satguru Nanak Devji was asked, " Who is your Guru?" What does He reply, when He is Himself God incarnate? I'm not saying this from my will; '[B].... Aap Narain Kaladhaar Jag me Parvario..'[/B] -Aadh Guru Granth Sahib Divan Nand Lalji, Vah! Divan Nand Lalji. Have any of you read His Kabits regarding Satguru Gobind Singhji? And this is A Sikh that Satguruji kept by His side always. I doubt if Satguruji sent him to hell! In one of his Kabits he, regarding Guruji as God incarnate says "...in just one strand of Your Kes....both this world and the next are bound..." If Divan Nandlalji's vision of Guru Gobind Singhji is wrong then I admit defeat at your hands Veer Dal Singhji. Learn about Nirgun and Sargun forms of God. This concept is present in ALL of the religions I have studied in one form or another. The truth about God exists in all religions, it is clouded only by ordinary mens' misconceptions. When men are removed from the presence of the Sargun manifestation of God through time or otherwise, their judgement gets clouded by maya and ego. This is proclaimed by the Sargun Swaroops who wrote the Gurbani of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. It is the Sargun form that we know as Satgur. And yes it is present in all of us, but it needs an Enlightened Soul to make us realise it. We have no power of our own. For all you who say "are the millions wrong who do not believe in a Living Guru? Are all the scholars wrong?" My brothers and sisters, Gursikhi's foundations are not built on the schools and universities of man. It's foundations are those Satgurus, Sants and Bhagats who were and are One with God. If you want to discuss Sikhi, then quote examples from the Banis of Satgurus or those whom they endorse. I salute your faith, but request all of you who have had this dialogue with dass to refrain and request others to refrain from vilifying anyone who believes in a Dehdhari Guru. This is not the way of Sikhi. May we all find peace. Sat-Sri Akaal, Ji Sat-Sri Akaal to all Firstly, apologies to you Dal Singhji for digressing on your topic. Although we have deviated from the 'Sants' topic, this discussion has relevence to the same. If you rather not, we can stop this discussion as it seems that I am beginning to upset a lot of people here and that is not good. I would, however like to leave by reminding all that my aim is and always has been to clarify the Namdhari perspective on Sikhi, never to attack anyones beliefs. There is no reason to do this other than to dispel the misconceptions that one keeps reading and hearing about Namdharis. From all of your replies one gets the impression that you think that Namdharis don't believe in Akaal Purakh. That somehow we don't believe in the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. From your replies one also gets the impression that some people are even relegating the first 10 Satgurus to mere mortals. You have all ignored the quotations that I have given from the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib and Bhai Gurdas' Vaars regarding the definition of Guru/Satguru - WHY? Look back at the threads. I am not looking for a reply. Your faith is established on the [B]Nirgun[/B] Form of Akaal Purakh. Namdharis hold faith in the [B]Sargun[/B] Form of Akaal Purakh as per the instructions of Satguru Nanakdevji. Even if all of the Satgurus denied that they were not God incarnate, it is not the duty of us, who are not even the dust of their Charan to repeat such remarks. When a Satguru like Satguru Nanak Devji was asked, " Who is your Guru?" What does He reply, when He is Himself God incarnate? I'm not saying this from my will; '[B].... Aap Narain Kaladhaar Jag me Parvario..'[/B] -Aadh Guru Granth Sahib Divan Nand Lalji, Vah! Divan Nand Lalji. Have any of you read His Kabits regarding Satguru Gobind Singhji? And this is A Sikh that Satguruji kept by His side always. I doubt if Satguruji sent him to hell! In one of his Kabits he, regarding Guruji as God incarnate says "...in just one strand of Your Kes....both this world and the next are bound..." If Divan Nandlalji's vision of Guru Gobind Singhji is wrong then I admit defeat at your hands Veer Dal Singhji. Learn about Nirgun and Sargun forms of God. This concept is present in ALL of the religions I have studied in one form or another. The truth about God exists in all religions, it is clouded only by ordinary mens' misconceptions. When men are removed from the presence of the Sargun manifestation of God through time or otherwise, their judgement gets clouded by maya and ego. This is proclaimed by the Sargun Swaroops who wrote the Gurbani of the Aadh Guru Granth Sahib. It is the Sargun form that we know as Satgur. And yes it is present in all of us, but it needs an Enlightened Soul to make us realise it. We have no power of our own. For all you who say "are the millions wrong who do not believe in a Living Guru? Are all the scholars wrong?" My brothers and sisters, Gursikhi's foundations are not built on the schools and universities of man. It's foundations are those Satgurus, Sants and Bhagats who were and are One with God. If you want to discuss Sikhi, then quote examples from the Banis of Satgurus or those whom they endorse. I salute your faith, but request all of you who have had this dialogue with dass to refrain and request others to refrain from vilifying anyone who believes in a Dehdhari Guru. This is not the way of Sikhi. May we all find peace. Sat-Sri Akaal, Ji Sorry about the above post. The system got jammed as I tried to rectify a spelling mistake. Please read the third Posting. [/QUOTE]
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