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Hard Talk
Consumption Of Alcohol Amongst Sikhs
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<blockquote data-quote="Ambarsaria" data-source="post: 142070" data-attributes="member: 14194"><p>Siri Kamala ji wonderful post and I have similar work experiences too.</p><p></p><p>Now in terms of the this thread I bring the following to the attention of SPNers,</p><p></p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The question is one first and foremost one of Sikh Rehat Maryad (SRM) which itself was dervied consistent with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji by learned men each one of those perhaps was equivalent to the total brain power in terms of Sikhism on this board<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At least that is how humbled I personally feel knowing names of some of the people involved</li> </ul> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It is very disingenous to take one part of SRM and conveniently take other parts to prove a point (nothing personal as this is a philosophical discussion for helping each other) and I mark <u><strong><span style="color: Red">with R</span></strong></u> for indiscretion that are not Kurehat while Kurehats are marked <u><span style="color: Red"><strong>with K</strong></span></u><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Comments like<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Teetoal <strong><span style="color: Red">(R + K)</span></strong></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Government of India lumps in (Maintains untrimmed kesh <span style="color: Red"><strong>K</strong></span>, Does not smoke or consume tobbacco <strong><span style="color: Red">K</span></strong>, Does not consume alcohol<span style="color: Red"><strong> R</strong></span>.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There are other posts where anti-drink (nothing wrong with the view as it follows SRM) posters do the same by Gurbani quotes by mixing <u><strong><span style="color: Red">R and K</span></strong></u></li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Red"><span style="color: Black">The above actions are not correct in providing Guidance</span></span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="color: Red"><span style="color: Black">Rehat statement in terms of Alcohol is the followng from SGPC,</span></span><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--></li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">5. koeI nSw(BMg,APIm,Srwb,posq,kukIn Awid) vrqx vwlw[ <br /> </span></li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>-<u>User of any intoxicants (Marijuana, Opium, Liquor, Poppy Husks, Cocaine, etc.)</u>. <span style="color: Red">R</span></strong><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><span style="color: Red">This clause is a violation of a rehat and SRM deals with it as follows,</span></strong></li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><span style="color: Red">-------------------------------------------------</span><span style="color: Red"></span></strong></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong><span style="color: Red"></span></strong></p> </p><p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">3. qnKwh lwaux dI ivDI</span></span></p> </p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"><strong><u><span style="color: red">Method of Imposing Penalty</span></u></strong></p> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">a) ijs iksy is`K pwsoN rihq dI koeI Bu`l ho jwvy qW auh nyVy dI gur-sMgq pws hwzr hovy Aqy sMgq dy snmu`K KVHo ky AwpxI Bu`l mMny[ </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>- <u>The Sikh who has erred in a rehat indiscretion, should attend the nearest sikh congregation and while standing admit to the indiscretion</u>.</strong><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">A) gur-sMgq 'coN sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI dI hzUrI ivc pMj ipAwry cuxy jwx, jo pyS hoey s`jx dI Bu`l nUM ivcwr ky gur-sMgq pws qnKwh (dMf) qjvIz krn[</span></span></p><p><strong>-<u> The sikh congregation, in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, selects five Panjh Piyare (Five Beloved) who having reviewed the indiscretion propose a penalty to the Sikh Congregation</u>.</strong><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">e) sMgq nUM bKSx vyly hT nhIN krnw cwhIdw[ nw hI qnKwh luAwaux vwly nUM dMf Brn ivc AVI krnI cwhIdI hY[ qnKwh iksy iksm dI syvw, Kws krky jo h`QW nwl kIqI jw sky, lwauxI cwhIey[ </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><strong>- <u>In giving forgiveness the Sikh congregation should not be stubborn. The person seeking penalty should not resist the penalty. The penalty should be service oriented with focus on the abilty to do so as labour of hands.</u></strong><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">s) AMq soD dI Ardws hovy[ </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><strong>- <u>A prayer of having been reformed shall be carried out at the end</u>.</strong></p><p></p><p>______________________________________________________________________________________________________________</p><p> </p><p>Globally key points,</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">For Rehat <strong><span style="color: Red">(R)</span></strong> Violations like the following,</li> </ul><p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />ontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">T) qnKwhIey ieh hn:- </span></span></p> </p><p> <p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: center"><strong><u><span style="color: red">Subjects of Penalty</span></u></strong><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p> </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">1. mIxy, msMd, DIrm`lIey, rwmrweIey, Awidk pMQ ivroDIAW nwl jW nVI mwr, kuVI mwr, isrguMm nwl vrqx vwlw qnKwhIAw ho jWdw hY[</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>- <strong><u>Meenay, Masand (non-believers in Rehat Maryada); Dhirmaliye; Ram Rayiaye (non-believers in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as last and final Guru), Touts of anti-Panth or of the non-believers in succession of Gurus, female infanticide, the person dealing with such is subject to penalty.</u></strong></p><p> </p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"> <span style="color: Red">2. by-AMimRqIey jW piqq dw jUTw Kwx vwlw[ </span></span></p><p>- <strong><u>Eater of food eaten by non-Amritdhari or Kurehatiah. </u></strong></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"> <span style="color: Red">3. dwhVw rMgx vwlw[ </span></span></p><p><strong>-<u>Beard colourer.</u></strong><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">4. pu`qr jW DI dw swk mu`l lY ky jW dy ky krn vwlw[</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><strong>-<u>Doing marriage matches of sons or daughters through by taking or giving a set price</u>.</strong><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">5. koeI nSw(BMg,APIm,Srwb,posq,kukIn Awid) vrqx vwlw[ </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><strong>-<u>User of any intoxicants (Marijuana, Opium, Liquor, Poppy Husks, Cocaine, etc.)</u>.</strong><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">6. gurmiq qoN ivru`D koeI sMskwr krn krwaux vwlw[ </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><strong>-<u> Conductor of non-Rehat based religious functions.</u></strong><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'">7. rihq ivc koeI Bu`l krn vwlw[ </span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><strong>-<u>Other mistakes in following Rehat.</u></strong></p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p>So best for all of us is to keep clarity and convey clarity. Nothing comes out of mush.</p><p></p><p>I am not condoning drinking or stopping people from drinking just stating what I can read in reference publications of SGPC and other posts with Gurbani quotes and translations.</p><p></p><p>Hoping above is of help in the dialog.</p><p></p><p>Sat Sri Akal.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>PS</u>:</strong> Any errors in English translations of sections of the Punjabi SRM are mine and I stand corrected. The original Punjabi SRM text is taken from,</p><p></p><p><a href="http://sgpc.net/sikhism/punjabi/sikh-dharma-manual.asp" target="_blank">http://sgpc.net/sikhism/punjabi/sikh-dharma-manual.asp</a></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: 'WebAkharSlim'"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ambarsaria, post: 142070, member: 14194"] Siri Kamala ji wonderful post and I have similar work experiences too. Now in terms of the this thread I bring the following to the attention of SPNers, [LIST] [*]The question is one first and foremost one of Sikh Rehat Maryad (SRM) which itself was dervied consistent with Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji by learned men each one of those perhaps was equivalent to the total brain power in terms of Sikhism on this board [LIST] [*]At least that is how humbled I personally feel knowing names of some of the people involved [/LIST] [*]It is very disingenous to take one part of SRM and conveniently take other parts to prove a point (nothing personal as this is a philosophical discussion for helping each other) and I mark [U][B][COLOR=Red]with R[/COLOR][/B][/U] for indiscretion that are not Kurehat while Kurehats are marked [U][COLOR=Red][B]with K[/B][/COLOR][/U] [LIST] [*]Comments like [LIST] [*]Teetoal [B][COLOR=Red](R + K)[/COLOR][/B] [*]Government of India lumps in (Maintains untrimmed kesh [COLOR=Red][B]K[/B][/COLOR], Does not smoke or consume tobbacco [B][COLOR=Red]K[/COLOR][/B], Does not consume alcohol[COLOR=Red][B] R[/B][/COLOR].) [*]There are other posts where anti-drink (nothing wrong with the view as it follows SRM) posters do the same by Gurbani quotes by mixing [U][B][COLOR=Red]R and K[/COLOR][/B][/U] [/LIST] [/LIST] [*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]The above actions are not correct in providing Guidance[/COLOR][/COLOR] [*][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Black]Rehat statement in terms of Alcohol is the followng from SGPC,[/COLOR][/COLOR]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> [/LIST] [INDENT] [LIST] [*][FONT=WebAkharSlim]5. koeI nSw(BMg,APIm,Srwb,posq,kukIn Awid) vrqx vwlw[ [/FONT] [/LIST] [/INDENT][INDENT][INDENT] [LIST] [*][B]-[U]User of any intoxicants (Marijuana, Opium, Liquor, Poppy Husks, Cocaine, etc.)[/U]. [COLOR=Red]R[/COLOR][/B] [LIST] [*][B][COLOR=Red]This clause is a violation of a rehat and SRM deals with it as follows,[/COLOR][/B] [/LIST] [/LIST] [B][COLOR=Red]-------------------------------------------------[/COLOR][COLOR=Red] [/COLOR][/B][/INDENT][/INDENT]<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> [CENTER][CENTER][COLOR=red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]3. qnKwh lwaux dI ivDI[/FONT][/COLOR][/CENTER] [/CENTER] [CENTER][CENTER][B][U][COLOR=red]Method of Imposing Penalty[/COLOR][/U][/B][/CENTER] [/CENTER] [INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]a) ijs iksy is`K pwsoN rihq dI koeI Bu`l ho jwvy qW auh nyVy dI gur-sMgq pws hwzr hovy Aqy sMgq dy snmu`K KVHo ky AwpxI Bu`l mMny[ [/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][INDENT][B]- [U]The Sikh who has erred in a rehat indiscretion, should attend the nearest sikh congregation and while standing admit to the indiscretion[/U].[/B][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT] [/INDENT][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]A) gur-sMgq 'coN sRI gurU gRMQ swihb jI dI hzUrI ivc pMj ipAwry cuxy jwx, jo pyS hoey s`jx dI Bu`l nUM ivcwr ky gur-sMgq pws qnKwh (dMf) qjvIz krn[[/FONT][/COLOR][/INDENT][B]-[U] The sikh congregation, in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, selects five Panjh Piyare (Five Beloved) who having reviewed the indiscretion propose a penalty to the Sikh Congregation[/U].[/B][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]e) sMgq nUM bKSx vyly hT nhIN krnw cwhIdw[ nw hI qnKwh luAwaux vwly nUM dMf Brn ivc AVI krnI cwhIdI hY[ qnKwh iksy iksm dI syvw, Kws krky jo h`QW nwl kIqI jw sky, lwauxI cwhIey[ [/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][B]- [U]In giving forgiveness the Sikh congregation should not be stubborn. The person seeking penalty should not resist the penalty. The penalty should be service oriented with focus on the abilty to do so as labour of hands.[/U][/B][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]s) AMq soD dI Ardws hovy[ [/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][B]- [U]A prayer of having been reformed shall be carried out at the end[/U].[/B] ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Globally key points, [LIST] [*]For Rehat [B][COLOR=Red](R)[/COLOR][/B] Violations like the following, [/LIST] <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> [CENTER][CENTER][COLOR=red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]T) qnKwhIey ieh hn:- [/FONT][/COLOR][/CENTER] [/CENTER] [CENTER][CENTER][B][U][COLOR=red]Subjects of Penalty[/COLOR][/U][/B][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][/CENTER] [/CENTER] [INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]1. mIxy, msMd, DIrm`lIey, rwmrweIey, Awidk pMQ ivroDIAW nwl jW nVI mwr, kuVI mwr, isrguMm nwl vrqx vwlw qnKwhIAw ho jWdw hY[[/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT]- [B][U]Meenay, Masand (non-believers in Rehat Maryada); Dhirmaliye; Ram Rayiaye (non-believers in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as last and final Guru), Touts of anti-Panth or of the non-believers in succession of Gurus, female infanticide, the person dealing with such is subject to penalty.[/U][/B] [FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][INDENT][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [COLOR=Red]2. by-AMimRqIey jW piqq dw jUTw Kwx vwlw[ [/COLOR][/FONT][/INDENT]- [B][U]Eater of food eaten by non-Amritdhari or Kurehatiah. [/U][/B] [FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][INDENT][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [COLOR=Red]3. dwhVw rMgx vwlw[ [/COLOR][/FONT][/INDENT][B]-[U]Beard colourer.[/U][/B][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]4. pu`qr jW DI dw swk mu`l lY ky jW dy ky krn vwlw[[/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][B]-[U]Doing marriage matches of sons or daughters through by taking or giving a set price[/U].[/B][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]5. koeI nSw(BMg,APIm,Srwb,posq,kukIn Awid) vrqx vwlw[ [/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][B]-[U]User of any intoxicants (Marijuana, Opium, Liquor, Poppy Husks, Cocaine, etc.)[/U].[/B][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]6. gurmiq qoN ivru`D koeI sMskwr krn krwaux vwlw[ [/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][B]-[U] Conductor of non-Rehat based religious functions.[/U][/B][FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT][INDENT][COLOR=Red][FONT=WebAkharSlim]7. rihq ivc koeI Bu`l krn vwlw[ [/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][B]-[U]Other mistakes in following Rehat.[/U][/B] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So best for all of us is to keep clarity and convey clarity. Nothing comes out of mush. I am not condoning drinking or stopping people from drinking just stating what I can read in reference publications of SGPC and other posts with Gurbani quotes and translations. Hoping above is of help in the dialog. Sat Sri Akal. [B][U]PS[/U]:[/B] Any errors in English translations of sections of the Punjabi SRM are mine and I stand corrected. The original Punjabi SRM text is taken from, [URL]http://sgpc.net/sikhism/punjabi/sikh-dharma-manual.asp[/URL] [FONT=WebAkharSlim] [/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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